Kyle Dubas discussion

[The Podium]

Same people that celebrated the Rittich pickup are the same ones rejoicing over not picking a goalie up this year.
I may be misremembering but it didn't seem like as much of a need last year as this year.

They literally did not have a backup goalie and he was acquired during a stretch where Hutchinson was being Hutchinson and Campbell was in and out of the lineup while Andersen was out long term. It was absolutely a need since they only had 1 goalie. It wasn’t a playoff add, but a stop gap until Andersen could get back healthy.

That’s why it was a good move then, but not necessary now. But keep on spinning reality to laugh at the rest of us.

 

[Ciao]

For what it is worth, I am cautiously optimistic about the recent deals made with Blackwell and Giordano. It's a small sample size, but the Giordano and Liljegren pairing looked very steady and Giordano is great defensively. Blackwell clearly rubbed off on the team as he brings an element of physicality and grit that even Hyman didn't have here. Having him and Bunting on the ice for a good portion of the game will pay dividends and having Lyub absolutely crushing people is also insane too. When Muzzin comes back, this is probably the best D core in recent memory. Once he is healthy I would run something like;

Rielly - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren
Muzzin - Lyub

First pairing that carried us through the first 25 games. Second pairing that can be almost like a shutdown pairing and the Muzzin pairing feasts on third and fourth lines while laying them out.

I think when Muzzin comes back Liljegren might need to go down to make room under the cap.

Holl would have to clear waivers.

 

[zeke]

I may be misremembering but it didn't seem like as much of a need last year as this year.

At last year's trade deadline....

- Andersen had an .897sv%, and due to a mystery "injury" hadn't played in over 3 weeks and wasn't due back anytime soon.
- Campbell had a .934sv% but had only played 11gms all season
- Hutchinson was the de facto backup and had a .919sv% in 8gms

 

[ACC1224]

You are. And it was more. Last year we had neither of Kallgren/Woll having call ups that showed that they could thrive in spot duty. We had Andersen out long term, and Campbell yo-yoing in and out of the lineup with a recurring injury. D'Agostini played 14 games for the Marlies. There was a very real chance that we were going into the playoffs with Hutch as our backup, and a jarringly non-zero chance that he'd be the starter (with like Vehviliainen backing up) Bringing in a +level backup as insurance made sense.

Right now we're looking to have two healthy 1A/1B types, plus two capable young 3's waiting in the minors, plus a journeyman backup. What does *another* journeyman backup add to that mix? We're not going anywhere with .900-.905 goaltending. Are we seriously bringing them in thinking that they stand a better chance of doing something that they've never done before than there is of either Campbell or Mrazek finding their games?

There's no guarantee that Campbell will be 100% this year nor Mrazek for that matter(he's terrible anyway), at a minimum the situation is the same as last season.
As I've said it's probably not a big deal but it would be a shame if this is what contributes to yet another disappointing season.
IMO, it's better to have something and not need it than it is to need it and not have it.

 

[4thline]

There's no guarantee that Campbell will be 100% this year nor Mrazek for that matter(he's terrible anyway), at a minimum the situation is the same as last season.
As I've said it's probably not a big deal but it would be a shame if this is what contributes to yet another disappointing season.
IMO, it's better to have something and not need it than it is to need it and not have it.

But that's a fundamentally different risk, that requires a fundamentally different thing to mitigate it. How does a guy who's career norm is stopping one puck out of 200 more than JC's ass stretch help us?
Last year we needed "have a dressable NHL goalie insurance" We currently have that.
This we wanted/needed (time will tell) "have a goalie playing at an NHL starter level insurance"

Last year the garage was empty and we needed a beater to make sure we didn't get stranded. This year the garage is full but we might not have something that can pull the trailer. Another commuter car doesn't change the equation.


And before someone mentions Saterri- hail mary that he can cross the pond and catch lightning in a bottle. Not just bringing in another depth option.
A Wedgewood/Anderson might not get 5 starts between both the Leafs and Marlies this year.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I owe my current physique at least in part to Pepperidge

Haha, Me too.

Except ive been super low carb for a few years now and my weight is at a 30 year low.
Sugar and Wheat kill.
Vodka and Steak heal.
Final answer.

 

[bossram]

There's no guarantee that Campbell will be 100% this year nor Mrazek for that matter(he's terrible anyway), at a minimum the situation is the same as last season.
As I've said it's probably not a big deal but it would be a shame if this is what contributes to yet another disappointing season.
IMO, it's better to have something and not need it than it is to need it and not have it.

Outside of Fleury, who wasn't available to Toronto, there wasn't a goalie out there that would make any material difference.

Who cares about acquiring another Rittich "passable NHL goalie" level guy? Kallgren/Woll or even Hutchinson can do that. It's not going to cut it in the playoffs regardless. Dubas was never going to find a #1 goalie at the TDL to supplant Campbell. Jack is the guy, and he's going to have to be the guy in the playoffs.

 

[ACC1224]

Outside of Fleury, who wasn't available to Toronto, there wasn't a goalie out there that would make any material difference.

Who cares about acquiring another Rittich "passable NHL goalie" level guy? Kallgren/Woll or even Hutchinson can do that. It's not going to cut it in the playoffs regardless. Dubas was never going to find a #1 goalie at the TDL to supplant Campbell. Jack is the guy, and he's going to have to be the guy in the playoffs.

You have no way of knowing that.

 

[bossram]

You have no way of knowing that.

Just like we have no way of knowing whether I'll win the lottery tonight, until the outcome already happens.

You're basically saying, "we can't judge anything without hindsight". That's a pretty bad way to evaluate a decision.

Looking at all the goaltenders moved, they were all mediocre types, 1Bs at best. Kahkonen, the goalie some are saying Dubas should've gone out and paid for because they need a goalie, has a .910 this year and a .902 last year. This does not scream "crease solution" to me. And that is on a solid defensive outfit in Minnesota.

Unless you're argument is, "well one of these random meh goalies would've magically rattled off a .925+ in Toronto", then I think can pretty objectively conclude there were no obvious goaltending upgrades available at the TDL.

 

[TMLegend]

Goalies in the Dubas Era

Kallgren: 4gms, .930sv%, 103pt pace
Campbell: 68gms, .916sv%, 120pt pace (Plyff: 7gms, .934sv%, 3-4)
Freddie: 136gms, .911sv%, 108pt pace (Plyff: 12gms, .928sv%, 5-7)
Woll: 4gms, .911sv%, 123pt pace
Sparks: 20gms, .902sv%, 77pt pace
Hutch: 30gms, .898sv%, 67pt pace
Rittich: 4gms, .898sv%, 82pt pace
Mrazek: 18gms, .885sv%, 106pt pace
Kaskisuo: 1gms, .842sv%, 0pt pace

Looks like he's a poor evaluator of goaltending.

 

[egd27]

You're basically saying, "we can't judge anything without hindsight". That's a pretty bad way to evaluate a decision.

Could be wrong, but I think he is saying you have no clue if "there wasn't a goalie out there that would make any material difference" or not. None of us do.

 

[bossram]

Could be wrong, but I think he is saying you have no clue if "there wasn't a goalie out there that would make any material difference" or not. None of us do.

Of the goalies that were moved (so presumably available for trade), were any actually good other than Fleury? And Fleury we know did not want to come to Toronto.

The answer to that is pretty clearly no.

Were there other goalies not traded that Dubas could have acquired? Probably. But who was he going to trade for? Shesterkin? Sorokin? I'm being serious. Can anyone present a plausible scenario where the Leafs could have found a significant goaltending upgrade?

 

[BertCorbeau]

Looks like he's a poor evaluator of goaltending.

Be interesting to compare that across other teams.

 

[kb]

They literally did not have a backup goalie and he was acquired during a stretch where Hutchinson was being Hutchinson and Campbell was in and out of the lineup while Andersen was out long term. It was absolutely a need since they only had 1 goalie. It wasn’t a playoff add, but a stop gap until Andersen could get back healthy.

That’s why it was a good move then, but not necessary now. But keep on spinning reality to laugh at the rest of us.

I love how non-stop negativity is sold as 'realism'

 

[kb]

Haha, Me too.

Except ive been super low carb for a few years now and my weight is at a 30 year low.
Sugar and Wheat kill.
Vodka and Steak heal.
Final answer.

I went low carb in 1995 and went from 340 to 225.

You are 100% bang on my man. Fight the good fight on this. Congrats, that is truly heroic.

I broke my foot at the beginning of Feb, and it cost me 40 lbs because I ordered delivery. UGH. lol

 

[BertCorbeau]

You have no way of knowing that.

True. All we know is that the Leafs were pursuing Fluery. And I think from that a safe assumption could have been made that he checked in on every goaltender that was available. And while he was willing to move big pieces, there is certainly a limit on cost that he would incur. It also seems evident he wasn't willing to move an asset for another roll of the dice goalie (maybe like Reimer for example) who may not have been a clear cut upgrade in net.

Teams also could hold a lot of leverage over Dubas (say for a name like Gibson) because the goaltending has been so bad, Dubas could have been as as desperate. So I do credit Dubas for holding firm and not paying a crazy price out of desperation.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I broke my foot at the beginning of Feb, and it cost me 40 lbs because I ordered delivery. UGH. lol

Low carb needs you back
Steak heals bones, bread rots them.

 

[kb]

Low carb needs you back
Steak heals bones, bread rots them.

You speak truth. People don't understand how steak and bacon can heal......well, maybe not bacon daily.

 

[Frostitute]

I went low carb in 1995 and went from 340 to 225.

You are 100% bang on my man. Fight the good fight on this. Congrats, that is truly heroic.

I broke my foot at the beginning of Feb, and it cost me 40 lbs because I ordered delivery. UGH. lol

I have lost over 100lbs on 3 seperate occasions. Part of me is saying it's time to do it again but a larger part of me is saying im too old now so F it lol. Too many knee/back injuries to properly exercise anymore.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I have lost over 100lbs on 3 seperate occasions. Part of me is saying it's time to do it again but a larger part of me is saying im too old now so F it lol. Too many knee/back injuries to properly exercise anymore.

Weight is all eating, exercise is to feel good

 

[The Podium]

Weight is all eating, exercise is to feel good

I mean… excercise is to reverse the harmful effects of weight. Losing weight is great, but reducing stored cholesterol and arterial plaques, or in some cases minimizing the effects of type 2 diabetes, through exercise should be the ultimate goal.

 

[crump]

Without inside knowledge on Campbell’s injury everything is speculative. Has his ribs been causing issues for a while? Are they a little responsible for his slump? What were the costs of different trade scenarios.

Looking at the numbers he made the right call in committing to Jack this year. He was amazing down the stretch last year. If you have knowledge he is coming back healthy why go out and get a costly #1 or even backup.

Fleury would have been an upgrade on Mrazek but at what cost. You stick with your plan. You might go down with the ship but you stick with the plan.

 

[ACC1224]

Without inside knowledge on Campbell’s injury everything is speculative. Has his ribs been causing issues for a while? Are they a little responsible for his slump? What were the costs of different trade scenarios.

Looking at the numbers he made the right call in committing to Jack this year. He was amazing down the stretch last year. If you have knowledge he is coming back healthy why go out and get a costly #1 or even backup.

Fleury would have been an upgrade on Mrazek but at what cost. You stick with your plan. You might go down with the ship but you stick with the plan.

That's the thing, he did make inquiries and tried to bring a goalie in that was claimed.

 

[crump]

That's the thing, he did make inquiries and tried to bring a goalie in that was claimed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but how many goalies are injured on the Marlies? Woll and Scott? That leaves Hutch and Petruzzelli. I think that was the idea, to shore up organizational depth heading to the playoffs. Could he have gotten a sniff in the NHL? Hard to say.

 

[PromisedLand]

As far as I am concerned.... For Shanahan and co.... WIN or else....