Kyle Dubas discussion

[ACC1224]

I’m starting to think they will keep him on board. Tell him he needs to break up the core 4 and give him the opportunity to fix it from there.

If he needs to be told what to do he's not the right person for the job.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

If the leafs Make it far in the playoffs, Kyle should win the GM trophy, the way he built the team is crazy impressive. Look at the defense... We have legit like 6 TOP 4 defenders going into the playoffs 6!!!!

I'm confident that there is not a single gm in the league that is even on the same BALLPARK of hockey knowledge than Kyle. Dude just breeds hockey and is a pure PRODIGY.

Goat gm fo sure let's go Kyle!!

Pump the brakes a bit. There are a lot of GMs I would definitely not take over him and there is a bunch that I would likely take over him.

 

[Dreakmur]

the year before Dubas took over would be the 2018 rankings, for the record.

Prospect Pool when Dubas took over was

Johnsson - Engvall - Grundstrom
Timashov - Brooks - Bracco
Dzierkals - Joshua - Korshkov

Greenway - Liljegren
Middleton - Rasanen

Woll
Scott

That was viewed as pretty decent back then. Of course, with the benefit of hindsight, we know better. Also, that ignores that Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Kapanen we’re making their NHL debuts that year.

Our current pool looks great now, but that’s because we’re all hopeful they work out. We all see the potential and ignore that very few reach it. Even some of Robertson, Knies, and Neimela will likely flop.

 

[Menzinger]

The way dubas gets painted by his fan boys is just hilariously off-base.

Nhl team prospect ranking:

2017 (year before dubas took over): Leafs were ~13th.

2022: Leafs are ~15th.

That's some impressive prospect pool building.

Also, don't forget trading a 1st round pick for an injured foligno in your resume! I still remember all you guys thinking dubas had just made some awesome move for us. Similar to the Kadri for barrie and kerfoot trade.

What I find interesting is that dubas fan boys will tell us over and over again how amazing he is, "best gm in 20+ years", and yet we are one spot higher in the regular season than when he took over and still have yet to win a single play round.

You would think the lack of progress under dubas would cause some self reflection on their opinions but it appears to not be the case.

Though context does matter here. That 2017/18 ranking is coming off the back of 3 top 10 draft selections (including 2 in the top 5). It's logical that the prospect rankings would be much higher than a team coming off multiple playoff berths thus having a higher draft selections.

It's quite a shame the Leafs seemingly failed to get any impact players beyond the first round from those early rebuild drafts. A huge missed opportunity

 

[Gary Nylund]

Though context does matter here. That 2017/18 ranking is coming off the back of 3 top 10 draft selections (including 2 in the top 5). It's logical that the prospect rankings would be much higher than a team coming off multiple playoff berths thus having a higher draft selections.

It's quite a shame the Leafs seemingly failed to get any impact players beyond the first round from those early rebuild drafts. A huge missed opportunity

I'm no prospect pool expert but it seems to me that dropping from 13th only to 15th is impressive considering how many top picks we've traded away during that time. What's not impressive of course is that trading these futures for immediate success hasn't really worked out but I guess that's the thing about gambling - sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Kyle is a very underrated GM. We’re lucky to have him, I’m hopeful that he’s able to stay past this playoff run and we have some success.

 

[riffle]

Just saw Hagel score a shorty for the Bolts.

Reflecting back on the angst Dubas shared regarding Kyle Davidson leaking the failed Fleury/Hagel deal I started wondering what Kyle Davidson must've told BriseBois. Hey, Julien... your division rival Kyle Dubas just offered the moon for Hagel. Can you beat his offer? BriseBois knowing it was Dubas and Leafs raises his offer to ridiculous levels, not because he wanted Hagel so badly, but because he wanted Hagel and badly didn't want Toronto grabbing him. He knows how bad our cap is and how much Hagel would help in that regard. He could kill two birds with one stone (for years to come) if he overpaid for Hagel.

Too bad Kyle Davidson's lips aren't looser than they are so we could know if that's why BriseBois gave a ridiculous package for Hagel all to stop Dubas from getting his guy. I'm guessing not getting Hagel stung more than Harri Sateri, by a lot.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Just saw Hagel score a shorty for the Bolts.

Reflecting back on the angst Dubas shared regarding Kyle Davidson leaking the failed Fleury/Hagel deal I started wondering what Kyle Davidson must've told BriseBois. Hey, Julien... your division rival Kyle Dubas just offered the moon for Hagel. Can you beat his offer? BriseBois knowing it was Dubas and Leafs raises his offer to ridiculous levels, not because he wanted Hagel so badly, but because he wanted Hagel and badly didn't want Toronto grabbing him. He knows how bad our cap is and how much Hagel would help in that regard. He could kill two birds with one stone (for years to come) if he overpaid for Hagel.

Too bad Kyle Davidson's lips aren't looser than they are so we could know if that's why BriseBois gave a ridiculous package for Hagel all to stop Dubas from getting his guy. I'm guessing not getting Hagel stung more than Harri Sateri, by a lot.

This makes no sense. Toronto is not known for overpaying on trades.

Also, it would look pretty bad if Tampa says no and Chicago knows Toronto rejected their offer and nothing happens.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Just saw Hagel score a shorty for the Bolts.

Reflecting back on the angst Dubas shared regarding Kyle Davidson leaking the failed Fleury/Hagel deal I started wondering what Kyle Davidson must've told BriseBois. Hey, Julien... your division rival Kyle Dubas just offered the moon for Hagel. Can you beat his offer? BriseBois knowing it was Dubas and Leafs raises his offer to ridiculous levels, not because he wanted Hagel so badly, but because he wanted Hagel and badly didn't want Toronto grabbing him. He knows how bad our cap is and how much Hagel would help in that regard. He could kill two birds with one stone (for years to come) if he overpaid for Hagel.

Too bad Kyle Davidson's lips aren't looser than they are so we could know if that's why BriseBois gave a ridiculous package for Hagel all to stop Dubas from getting his guy. I'm guessing not getting Hagel stung more than Harri Sateri, by a lot.

I don't think either stung the Leafs. Dubas didn't over pay and the team knew Sateri would need waivers.

 

[justloveleafs]

Watching Hagel tonight in the Bruins/Tampa game. He is the real deal, going to help Tampa quite a bit imo.

My impression of Tampa and Boston? They look tired of the regular season. Good teams but not as good as the Leafs imo.

If we get decent goaltending we beat either of these teams. They are a bit past it. We are peak.

But its the end of a long season, or close to it, they could be just bored.

 

[riffle]

Watching Hagel tonight in the Bruins/Tampa game. He is the real deal, going to help Tampa quite a bit imo.

My impression of Tampa and Boston? They look tired of the regular season. Good teams but not as good as the Leafs imo.

If we get decent goaltending we beat either of these teams. They are a bit past it. We are peak.

But its the end of a long season, or close to it, they could be just bored.

He looks great, doesn't he? Almost had his 2nd on that break of his. Very disappointing we didn't land that guy. Would've helped us on the ice and on the cap for years to come.

Boston looks better than Tampa who looks like anything but reigning back-to-back champions. Couldn't agree more we can take this Tampa team as they're playing right now. I'll bet when it's playoff time they're playing much better than this.

If a series was starting tomorrow, I'd prefer Tampa.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Just saw Hagel score a shorty for the Bolts.

Reflecting back on the angst Dubas shared regarding Kyle Davidson leaking the failed Fleury/Hagel deal I started wondering what Kyle Davidson must've told BriseBois. Hey, Julien... your division rival Kyle Dubas just offered the moon for Hagel. Can you beat his offer? BriseBois knowing it was Dubas and Leafs raises his offer to ridiculous levels, not because he wanted Hagel so badly, but because he wanted Hagel and badly didn't want Toronto grabbing him. He knows how bad our cap is and how much Hagel would help in that regard. He could kill two birds with one stone (for years to come) if he overpaid for Hagel.

Too bad Kyle Davidson's lips aren't looser than they are so we could know if that's why BriseBois gave a ridiculous package for Hagel all to stop Dubas from getting his guy. I'm guessing not getting Hagel stung more than Harri Sateri, by a lot.

It's really important for you that the Chicago trade is a big controversy huh

 

[riffle]

It's really important for you that the Chicago trade is a big controversy huh

No. It's just interesting for a number of reasons.

Is it important for you to pretend we didn't want Hagel and or Fleury because it makes Kyle look bad for not landing either one? I would assume, which is always dangerous, that you would be the type to praise him regardless of what happens. Had they landed Hagel and Fleury you would be praising the deal that happened. Because it didn't happen, Kyle is brilliant for not overpaying. He wins to you no matter what happens? Is that close?

This stuff fascinates me. Not a pro or con of Kyle Dubas. I think he did a brutal job of not resolving the goaltending situation. I think he did a tremendous job of adding a guy who was begging to come home and the powerpint presentation, Colin Blackwell. Both are necessary pieces, so I love them both, but not getting a goalie is brutal, and getting Hagel would've been tremendous. I understand Hagel would've cost a lot, but he would've helped our mangled cap for years to come. That is insane value that is worthy of contemplation for an overpay. The GM of the reigning 2x champs thought it was worthwhile and I don't think anyone's questioning his moves.

 

[Apotheosis]

For what it is worth, I am cautiously optimistic about the recent deals made with Blackwell and Giordano. It's a small sample size, but the Giordano and Liljegren pairing looked very steady and Giordano is great defensively. Blackwell clearly rubbed off on the team as he brings an element of physicality and grit that even Hyman didn't have here. Having him and Bunting on the ice for a good portion of the game will pay dividends and having Lyub absolutely crushing people is also insane too. When Muzzin comes back, this is probably the best D core in recent memory. Once he is healthy I would run something like;

Rielly - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren
Muzzin - Lyub

First pairing that carried us through the first 25 games. Second pairing that can be almost like a shutdown pairing and the Muzzin pairing feasts on third and fourth lines while laying them out.

 

[FiveHoleo]

Scott Wedgewood was traded for a conditional 4th round pick. Was that too rich for Kyle's blood? He had a .911 save percentage for Arizona, and a cap hit of 825k with 1 year left. He was perfect, in fact Kyle probably remembers Wedgewood being a brick wall for the Plymouth Whalers back in the OHL when he was GM with the Soo, but Kyle already squandered his mid round picks on crap like Rittich and Hutton. So instead the boy wonder tries to slide a KHL reject past the other 31 GMs and ends up getting nothing to help in net. All of this would be fine if he hadn't created this chronic gaping hole in the lineup in the first place by consulting his charts and selecting Garrett Sparks instead of McIlhenney a few years ago to be the back up. He made the problem in the first place, spent assets every year since trying to correct it and failing. Along the way he gives Hutchinson 3 contracts. Think about that for a minute, the worst goalie to have ever pulled on a Leafs jersey this century got not 1, not 2, but 3 contracts from Kyle and is still under contract today and still not a solution to the problem Kyle created. Stop making excuses for this guy. Dubas gets bent over in trade negotiations, contract negotiations, and has zero respect among his fellow GM's. He's a turd.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Scott Wedgewood was traded for a conditional 4th round pick. Was that too rich for Kyle's blood? He had a .911 save percentage for Arizona, and a cap hit of 825k with 1 year left. He was perfect, in fact Kyle probably remembers Wedgewood being a brick wall for the Plymouth Whalers back in the OHL when he was GM with the Soo, but Kyle already squandered his mid round picks on crap like Rittich and Hutton. So instead the boy wonder tries to slide a KHL reject past the other 31 GMs and ends up getting nothing to help in net. All of this would be fine if he hadn't created this chronic gaping hole in the lineup in the first place by consulting his charts and selecting Garrett Sparks instead of McIlhenney a few years ago to be the back up. He made the problem in the first place, spent assets every year since trying to correct it and failing. Along the way he gives Hutchinson 3 contracts. Think about that for a minute, the worst goalie to have ever pulled on a Leafs jersey this century got not 1, not 2, but 3 contracts from Kyle and is still under contract today and still not a solution to the problem Kyle created. Stop making excuses for this guy. Dubas gets bent over in trade negotiations, contract negotiations, and has zero respect among his fellow GM's. He's a turd.

I may not agree with your opinion, but have to respect the passion behind this post.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Scott Wedgewood was traded for a conditional 4th round pick. Was that too rich for Kyle's blood? He had a .911 save percentage for Arizona, and a cap hit of 825k with 1 year left. He was perfect, in fact Kyle probably remembers Wedgewood being a brick wall for the Plymouth Whalers back in the OHL when he was GM with the Soo, but Kyle already squandered his mid round picks on crap like Rittich and Hutton. So instead the boy wonder tries to slide a KHL reject past the other 31 GMs and ends up getting nothing to help in net. All of this would be fine if he hadn't created this chronic gaping hole in the lineup in the first place by consulting his charts and selecting Garrett Sparks instead of McIlhenney a few years ago to be the back up. He made the problem in the first place, spent assets every year since trying to correct it and failing. Along the way he gives Hutchinson 3 contracts. Think about that for a minute, the worst goalie to have ever pulled on a Leafs jersey this century got not 1, not 2, but 3 contracts from Kyle and is still under contract today and still not a solution to the problem Kyle created. Stop making excuses for this guy. Dubas gets bent over in trade negotiations, contract negotiations, and has zero respect among his fellow GM's. He's a turd.

Sorry Wedgewood sucks. No better than Mrazek. He's a #3 option because Holtby is injured.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Scott Wedgewood was traded for a conditional 4th round pick. Was that too rich for Kyle's blood? He had a .911 save percentage for Arizona, and a cap hit of 825k with 1 year left. He was perfect, in fact Kyle probably remembers Wedgewood being a brick wall for the Plymouth Whalers back in the OHL when he was GM with the Soo, but Kyle already squandered his mid round picks on crap like Rittich and Hutton. So instead the boy wonder tries to slide a KHL reject past the other 31 GMs and ends up getting nothing to help in net. All of this would be fine if he hadn't created this chronic gaping hole in the lineup in the first place by consulting his charts and selecting Garrett Sparks instead of McIlhenney a few years ago to be the back up. He made the problem in the first place, spent assets every year since trying to correct it and failing. Along the way he gives Hutchinson 3 contracts. Think about that for a minute, the worst goalie to have ever pulled on a Leafs jersey this century got not 1, not 2, but 3 contracts from Kyle and is still under contract today and still not a solution to the problem Kyle created. Stop making excuses for this guy. Dubas gets bent over in trade negotiations, contract negotiations, and has zero respect among his fellow GM's. He's a turd.

Yes, Wedgwood has a .911 save percentage in his 26 games for Arizona, and a.906 save percentage in his 70 games as a 29 year old obviously a '23 conditional 4th was not to rich for his blood. It is more likely that Dubas did not see him as something better than what the Leafs have. Rittch was traded for a '22 3 but Hutton was for future considerations- not a mid round pick. It is also true that McIlhenney would have been the better choice than Sparks- Dubas is not perfect. Hutchenson has signed one contract with the Leafs ( 2 years in 2020 leading up to the expansion draft) and his carear NHL save percentage is .905 almost the same as Wegewood ( he is older and has played more games- 127. Dubas added a recent Norris trophy winner and a very good winger just this year. Has sigend some excellent contracts- like every GM, not all of his signings have worked out. He is well respected by his fellow GMs and he has been very good in Toronto .

 

[Ashdown2]

The way dubas gets painted by his fan boys is just hilariously off-base.

Nhl team prospect ranking:

2017 (year before dubas took over): Leafs were ~13th.

2022: Leafs are ~15th.

That's some impressive prospect pool building.

Also, don't forget trading a 1st round pick for an injured foligno in your resume! I still remember all you guys thinking dubas had just made some awesome move for us. Similar to the Kadri for barrie and kerfoot trade.

What I find interesting is that dubas fan boys will tell us over and over again how amazing he is, "best gm in 20+ years", and yet we are one spot higher in the regular season than when he took over and still have yet to win a single play round.

You would think the lack of progress under dubas would cause some self reflection on their opinions but it appears to not be the case.

i dont even understand what people are complain about with drafting, so you basically want to go back to the dark days of mark hunter, lou, burke, jfj and previous scouts who basically only ever had a good draft when it was a top 5 pick ....... ?? you can bitch and moan but your wrong ........ its not even debatable that the drafting since dubas has taken over has been 1000x better then at anytime in leafs history. it would also be more impressive given the stories of players dubas wanted to get but got denied by lou.

Also, you opinion is STUPID because CONTEXT MATTERS ... its not impressive to be ranked high if those prospects where you have a bunch of high picks in your back pocket. meanwhile its rare for teams to be top 5 in the league to have a good prospect pool because of the lack of picks and any top 10 picks for a long time.

 

[Frostitute]

Scott Wedgewood was traded for a conditional 4th round pick. Was that too rich for Kyle's blood? He had a .911 save percentage for Arizona, and a cap hit of 825k with 1 year left. He was perfect, in fact Kyle probably remembers Wedgewood being a brick wall for the Plymouth Whalers back in the OHL when he was GM with the Soo, but Kyle already squandered his mid round picks on crap like Rittich and Hutton. So instead the boy wonder tries to slide a KHL reject past the other 31 GMs and ends up getting nothing to help in net. All of this would be fine if he hadn't created this chronic gaping hole in the lineup in the first place by consulting his charts and selecting Garrett Sparks instead of McIlhenney a few years ago to be the back up. He made the problem in the first place, spent assets every year since trying to correct it and failing. Along the way he gives Hutchinson 3 contracts. Think about that for a minute, the worst goalie to have ever pulled on a Leafs jersey this century got not 1, not 2, but 3 contracts from Kyle and is still under contract today and still not a solution to the problem Kyle created. Stop making excuses for this guy. Dubas gets bent over in trade negotiations, contract negotiations, and has zero respect among his fellow GM's. He's a turd.

While I do think 95% of what you said here is infact utter bull$hit, I will agree that we should have picked up Wedgewood at such a low price.

If you aren't a fan, why do you bother? Things like sports are supposed to be stress relievers and bring joy to your life. Cheer for another team or in another sport if you don't like it. Or ya know, learn to sew or something. Lol.

 

[saffronleaf]

Scott Wedgewood was traded for a conditional 4th round pick. Was that too rich for Kyle's blood? He had a .911 save percentage for Arizona, and a cap hit of 825k with 1 year left. He was perfect, in fact Kyle probably remembers Wedgewood being a brick wall for the Plymouth Whalers back in the OHL when he was GM with the Soo, but Kyle already squandered his mid round picks on crap like Rittich and Hutton. So instead the boy wonder tries to slide a KHL reject past the other 31 GMs and ends up getting nothing to help in net. All of this would be fine if he hadn't created this chronic gaping hole in the lineup in the first place by consulting his charts and selecting Garrett Sparks instead of McIlhenney a few years ago to be the back up. He made the problem in the first place, spent assets every year since trying to correct it and failing. Along the way he gives Hutchinson 3 contracts. Think about that for a minute, the worst goalie to have ever pulled on a Leafs jersey this century got not 1, not 2, but 3 contracts from Kyle and is still under contract today and still not a solution to the problem Kyle created. Stop making excuses for this guy. Dubas gets bent over in trade negotiations, contract negotiations, and has zero respect among his fellow GM's. He's a turd.

why does it matter whether he's respected by fellow GMs? it's a stale, low IQ old boys club.

 

[zeke]

Watching Hagel tonight in the Bruins/Tampa game. He is the real deal, going to help Tampa quite a bit imo.

My impression of Tampa and Boston? They look tired of the regular season. Good teams but not as good as the Leafs imo.

If we get decent goaltending we beat either of these teams. They are a bit past it. We are peak.

But its the end of a long season, or close to it, they could be just bored.

You think? Other than his gimme goal I thought Hagel was pretty weak both games - though the whole TB team stunk so it's not all him.

On the other hand, Lindholm looked awesome for the Bruins.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

This thread is much, much, less noisy after a win eh?

The Bruins are an issue. Best team in the NHL since January I think and really took it to Tampa that entire game last night.

Lindholm looked solid for sure.

 

[4thline]

Yes, Wedgwood has a .911 save percentage in his 26 games for Arizona,

Yes!. We should be ANGRY that the DUMBASS didn't spend assets on a journeyman tweener goaltender. It's not like we have two younger goalies with better AHL numbers and are a combined 5-1-1 with a .920 in 7 starts this season

 

[riffle]

While I do think 95% of what you said here is infact utter bull$hit, I will agree that we should have picked up Wedgewood at such a low price.

If you aren't a fan, why do you bother? Things like sports are supposed to be stress relievers and bring joy to your life. Cheer for another team or in another sport if you don't like it. Or ya know, learn to sew or something. Lol.

Wow, did you pick the wrong team for that. We all did. Hopefully, more celebrating and less commiserating is coming in May. Hard to be happy as a Leafs fan given the recent failures.

Nobody should tell anyone how to fan. We're all different.