Kucherov 6 point night

[These Are The Days]

Holy shit. Kucherov has a 6 point night and Canada just runs out of the woodwork like someone set the forest on fire to remind us they're better


You can set your watch to it

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Gretzky and Lemieux have only lost the Art Ross to each other. McDavid has lost to Kucherov twice now and will probably lose again. He's a better player but he's not a tier above

Kucherov has been outscored by dozens of players in his career, McDavid like 3. Not the same caliber

Holy shit. Kucherov has a 6 point night and Canada just runs out of the woodwork like someone set the forest on fire to remind us they're better


You can set your watch to it

Kucherov has a 5 point game (when the thread was created) and some fanboys will make it a main boards thread. You can set your watch to it

 

[WalterLundy]

Holy shit. Kucherov has a 6 point night and Canada just runs out of the woodwork like someone set the forest on fire to remind us they're better


You can set your watch to it

Should have won the 2024 Hart

 

[Soul Assumption]

McDavid like 3. Not the same caliber

yep you can't lose 3 art ross in your prime if you are a tier above, i'm sorry. Gretzky and Lemieux didn't do that. it's not an opinion, but a fact

 

[Plastic Joseph]

yep you can't lose 3 art ross in your prime if you are a tier above, i'm sorry. Gretzky and Lemieux didn't do that. it's not an opinion, but a fact

gretzky is probably 3 tiers above Kucherov, McDavid 1 or 2.

Again - how many players have outscored Kucherov in a season? Too many to count.

Let's level the playing field since Kucherov came in at age 20. How many guys have out produced McDavid in a season since he was 20 ....3? Pretty sure it's:

Kucherov
Mackinnon
Draisaitl.

That's it, that's the entire list.


Now give me 5 mins while I go list all the players who have produced better than Kucherov in a season in his career. It's long, man.

He's a great talent , Jagr esque talent. But he's not on McDavids level

Should have won the 2024 Hart

things are only how they are, you have your opinion but he didn't

He got crushed and the players took mackinnon too. It is what it is

 

[WalterLundy]

gretzky is probably 3 tiers above Kucherov, McDavid 1 or 2.

Again - how many players have outscored Kucherov in a season? Too many to count.

Let's level the playing field since Kucherov came in at age 20. How many guys have out produced McDavid in a season since he was 20 ....3? Pretty sure it's:

Kucherov
Mackinnon
Draisaitl.

That's it, that's the entire list.


Now give me 5 mins while I go list all the players who have produced better than Kucherov in a season in his career. It's long, man.

He's a great talent , Jagr esque talent. But he's not on McDavids level


things are only how they are, you have your opinion but he didn't

He got crushed and the players took mackinnon too. It is what it is

I actually agree with everything you said in the message you responded to above mine. As for voting they don’t always get it right. 1989 Lemieux is one and there is a reason Jagr only has 1 Hart like Kucherov. They both suffer from the same thing and it isn’t ability…

 

[10YearsHaveGotBehind]

Against Calgary though so does it really count? /s

Kucherov is a phenomenal talent. Hes got a chance to be the second best Russian all time (behind Ovi). And like all euro players I think he is underrated across the league.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

I actually agree with everything you said in the message you responded to above mine. As for voting they don’t always get it right. 1989 Lemieux is one and there is a reason Jagr only has 1 Hart like Kucherov. They both suffer from the same thing and it isn’t ability…

I think it was a genuine conflip that could have gone either way. Voting isn't perfect but kucherov having 4 more pts than Mackinnon is not the same as having 38 more pts (and 38 more goals!) Than wayne in 89. To say he could have 2 harts is fair, but it was no robbery. Same goes for Mack in 2018

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Based on adjusted stats it’s true that he was peak Sid over a full season. Whether or not people treat them as important or not is another thing entirely and I’m okay with fans either disregarding them or treating them as a tool at best.

I covered each span in detail for Crosby’s 99 game 2011-2013 peak. If you want to say he lapped the field in ppg that’s fine but when seasons are that short it’s better in my opinion to look at when he was actually active. It would be different if he played full seasons but that sadly didn’t occur.

With the 2007-2014 prime I get that he was ppg dominant but remember that the 99 games of a possible 212 from 2011-2013 helps to both buff and preserve his ppg as the rest of the field has to go through all of those games he missed. Still would have created separation here no doubt but not playing games does preserve ppg. Happened to Lemieux and Crosby. Remember that from 2006-2010 it was 1.36 for Crosby to 1.34 for Ovechkin with Ovi acquiring more hardware and more goals (total stats). Crosby’s separation for ppg was the small sample peak and 2014 being a good year in a terrible year for other top scorers. I say this not to diminish as he was the best from 06-14 but context is key.

Only thing I’ll push back on here or at least ask a question of is that I can’t actually believe that 144 in 81 GP in 2024 is less impressive than say 104 in 80 GP in 2014. If we aren’t going to use any adjustment (which is fine) I don’t see how a 40 point gap can be overcome.

The question I’ll ask you is this:
What would a Malkin 109 in 75 from 2012 be worth in 2024 to you? How about the 104 in 80 from 2014 Crosby? Lastly what do you believe a 120-130 point range estimated Crosby 2011 season be worth today? I don’t ask this for any other reason other than curiosity and possible insight from you for things I may just be missing or overlooking.

I think a good way to look at it would be to see how they did against the 10th or 20th place scorer.

Crosby at 1.30 vs Neal at 1.03 = 26% higher
Malkin at 1.45 vs Kessel at 1.00 = 45% higher

Last year 10th place was JT Miller at 1.27.

So I think those seasons translated to last year would put them at

Malkin 151 points, Crosby 131 points

I'll concede Crosby that year was not as impressive as I thought, but Malkin actually more impressive. At their peaks I have no doubt those two are putting up 140+ in today's environment.

 

[10YearsHaveGotBehind]

Holy shit. Kucherov has a 6 point night and Canada just runs out of the woodwork like someone set the forest on fire to remind us they're better


You can set your watch to it

Considering this is the 2nd time Kuch has had 6 points in a game, its not really something I would count on to set my watch

 

[These Are The Days]

Considering this is the 2nd time Kuch has had 6 points in a game, its not really something I would count on to set my watch

Wait til he passes MacKinnon for any period of time. It'll be 25 pages by lunch of the great white north reminding us who rightfully deserved MVP last year

 

[10YearsHaveGotBehind]

Wait til he passes MacKinnon for any period of time. It'll be 25 pages by lunch of the great white north reminding us who rightfully deserved MVP last year

Stop getting bent out of shape on last years awards, enjoy that your team has a great player.

 

[These Are The Days]

Stop getting bent out of shape on last years awards, enjoy that your team has a great player.

It's kind of hard to enjoy anything when every Kucherov praise thread turns into how great MacKinnon and McDavid are

 

[10YearsHaveGotBehind]

It's kind of hard to enjoy anything when every Kucherov praise thread turns into how great MacKinnon and McDavid are

Lol, then get off the website? I dunno. All threads get detractors. Its not a unique thing to TB.

 

[Coffey]

Kucherov is just a legend. Guy has 3 less points than the hart thief Mackinnon is 6 lesson games.


Thats the Western Conference and Mackinnon way.

I just wanted to throw shade at Calgary lmao

 

[These Are The Days]

Lol, then get off the website? I dunno. All threads get detractors. Its not a unique thing to TB.

You literally just said to enjoy Kucherov. The unique issue is to him, not TB. Tell me this without entire Crosby, MacKinnon and McDavid stat lines dominating full pages here

 

[olli]

It's kind of hard to enjoy anything when every Kucherov praise thread turns into how great MacKinnon and McDavid are

If it means that much to you then debating on Internet forums isn’t for you

 

[10YearsHaveGotBehind]

You literally just said to enjoy Kucherov. The unique issue is to him, not TB. Tell me this without entire Crosby, MacKinnon and McDavid stat lines dominating full pages here

I do enjoy him. And I don't enjoy people complaining about how hard their favourite player has it on an internet forum. But enjoy your confirmation bias in that Kuch is the only player that has negative comments about him lol.

 

[Randyne]

07-14, it's Crosby again.
Crosby 1.42
Malkin 1.22
Ovechkin 1.18

Meh, two gen. stars in one team. In that span Sid's every third point was from Malkin (221 out 667).

 

[John Mandalorian]

It's kind of hard to enjoy anything when every Kucherov praise thread turns into how great MacKinnon and McDavid are

As an Avs fan, agreed 100%. People can’t control themselves. What’s even more tedious is the discussion of other eras and talk of tiers as though this is highly scientific and carefully measured.

 

[authentic]

I think a good way to look at it would be to see how they did against the 10th or 20th place scorer.

Crosby at 1.30 vs Neal at 1.03 = 26% higher
Malkin at 1.45 vs Kessel at 1.00 = 45% higher

Last year 10th place was JT Miller at 1.27.

So I think those seasons translated to last year would put them at

Malkin 151 points, Crosby 131 points

I'll concede Crosby that year was not as impressive as I thought, but Malkin actually more impressive. At their peaks I have no doubt those two are putting up 140+ in today's environment.

Peak Malkin was every bit as good as peak Crosby, based on the half season he was capable of immediately following 2010-11; 33-32-65 in 41 vs. 32-34-66 in 41. Playoffs are more or less the same story both had 28 points in 17 games after 3 rounds, then Crosby had Lidstrom and Zetterberg stapled to him in the finals allowing Malkin to run wild and dominate. I think if anything Crosby would’ve strung together a few more of these super dominant seasons in his age 23-25 frame than Malkin would’ve, and possibly didn’t even get to reach his true potential even on a per game basis, we’ll never really know for sure.

To Kucherov’s credit he seems primed to have two of these seasons in a row right now which actually not even McDavid has done. One last thing though, none of these players have reached the playoff peak of McDavid in 2022 or 2024, that’s firmly the best player I’ve seen since Lemieux.

 

[Doubty]

Kucherov having a great season

You make it sound like it's a new thing for him? He is f***ing BEAST every f***ing season.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

McDavid is not like Lemieux. Lemieux would never be outscored by MacKinnon, Draisaitl, or Kucherov.

Exactly. This is the truth

 

[Vasilevskiy]

McDavid is a considerably better player overall, but believe what you want

mcDavid is a better skater... and that's it

 

[filinski77]

Interesting analysis: If you look at their 82 gp paces for the years that they both played since 2017 (ie. not including McDavids 2021 - which isn't fair to him, since one of his best seasons, but Kuch also just didn't play so hard to compare).

Overall points and goals on 82gp paces are actually pretty close.

Take from that what you will.

	McDavid p/gp	Kuch p/gp	McDavid g/gp	Kuch g/gp
2017​	1.22	1.15	0.37	0.54
2018​	1.32	1.25	0.50	0.49
2019​	1.49	1.56	0.53	0.50
2020​	1.52	1.25	0.53	0.49
2021​	1.88	-	0.59	-
2022​	1.54	1.47	0.55	0.53
2023​	1.87	1.38	0.78	0.37
2024​	1.74	1.78	0.42	0.54
2025​	1.54	1.76	0.54	0.56

	McDavid Points	Kucherov Points	McDavid goals	Kucherov goals
2017​	100	94	30	44
2018​	108	103	41	40
2019​	122	128	43	41
2020​	124	103	44	40
2021​
2022​	126	120	45	44
2023​	153	113	64	30
2024​	142	146	35	45
2025​	126	144	44	46
TOTAL	1,002	951	345	329