Confirmed with Link: Kravtsov requests trade

[Brief Candle]

I may have talked about this in another post earlier in this thread, but honestly I cannot remember.

I was 14 when Lindros got drafted by Quebec. We never had money for traveling teams, but god did I love playing this game. I'd have given anything to play ONE SHIFT for Quebec. Hell, I'd have gladly played for a minor league team. Yet here's this asshole refusing to go? I hated him from day one. He snubbed my dream because he was too good for them. This situation wreaks of something similar.

I'm not saying the Rangers brass is guilt free, not by a long shot, but ANY of these people that have been mentioned (Lias, ADA, etc) are just as guilty to me. They get to play hockey for a living. Something I'm sure literally any of us here wish we could do. So what if Drury gave him some shit? Grow the f*** up!

See, the one thing about this wonderful game isn't just the game itself, but the people involved. Take Mr. Gilbert as an example. He was one of the kindest, genuinely sweet and (most importantly) one of the most humble people you could ever meet. The wider world of hockey usually does a pretty good job of sifting these types out before they get a sniff of pro hockey, but there are always a few who get through, and with rare instance, their careers aren't usually the longest, and are also usually marred by bullshit.

Reality: He's got talent, but how he cannot get that missing half of pre-season means taking a week or two in the minors just to get in playing shape is somehow not to his advantage is beyond me. Hopefully we get a nice return for him. Keep players like this as far from this team as possible.

 

[ohbaby]

Yeah you’re right I am dreaming of Zibanejad and Panarin scoring because, uhh, they haven’t scored or played up to their usual standard thus far. No problem, see you in 8 games at the 12 game mark. You must not have looked at the upcoming schedule closely enough.

Even in the best of times the Rangers have a tough time against west coast teams. You are delusional to think we might have a winning record after 12.

 

[ohbaby]

Just trying to get some clarity here…are you assuming that the day after the season ended, they were gonna start with this training regiment? Or would they give him a little time (“remaining in NY for a spell”), and then work WITH him in an offseason program. ….oh the humanity!!!

You quoted it yourself,... (“remaining in NY for a spell”). Does that suggest taking a vacation after a long year,... go back to Russia, rest for a bit and THEN train? What is wrong with you people?

I'm sorry, I am just upset by this whole situation. And as more time passes the more it looks bad for the team and all involved. If the Rangers front office, want us to forget this, they better start winning. Because this will fester even more if this team is not successful.

 

[Kocur Dill]

I will say this:

Kravtsov is on my S* List.
Drury is heading in that direction. He seems to have had a big hand in derailing aspects of the rebuild even before he was gm and if he turns out to be our Isaiah, the pain of the last 4-5 years will all be for naught. I don't care if he's an egomaniac if he's one that knows how to manage and and evaluate. But if he doesn't, than he will destroy what's been built quicker than it was built.

That 03/04 knicks team with Van Horn was at the least competative, then Thomas came in and f*ced it all up wth his ego and "vison".

Scott Laden was actually building the roots of a decent team but much like Gorton, Dolan stepped in and undercut him with a "made the best out of intagibles" player turned Executive.

 

[Mandar]

You quoted it yourself,... (“remaining in NY for a spell”). Does that suggest taking a vacation after a long year,... go back to Russia, rest for a bit and THEN train? What is wrong with you people?

So, you’re upset about the timing…gotcha. He gets to rest…have some borscht….and train at some unknown point after that.

Wonder what the proper timeframe is….wonder if any other players who aren’t his age do after the season.

Yes…what is wrong with US?

 

[ohbaby]

So, you’re upset about the timing…gotcha. He gets to rest…have some borscht….and train at some unknown point after that.

Wonder what the proper timeframe is….wonder if any other players who aren’t his age do after the season.

Yes…what is wrong with US?

You must think everyone is like Jagr who hits the gym after games. There is only one Jaromir Jagr. Rod Brindamor was another gym rat. Rod played for 20 years. And Jagr is still playing.

 

[RGY]

Even in the best of times the Rangers have a tough time against west coast teams. You are delusional to think we might have a winning record after 12.

Yeah… I’m the delusional one here….

 

[bleedblue94]

I'm not a Sharks fan, so I'm not going to pretend to speak for them, but IMO the + would have to be the main piece in the deal with Kravtsov being the sweetener.

Top 6 C's normally go for a fair bit at the trade deadline.

Usually a 1st and a good prospect. Depending on how VK is viewed could he and a 2nd do it? San Jose isn't going to want prospects 3 years from playing in the NHL, they have guys signed to big contracts and Wilson usually make "now" type moves to bounce back fast. Just a thought.

 

[bleedblue94]

I'm hesitant to give up anything for Hertl. I'm REALLY hesitant to give him anything more than 5 years.. even that is pushing it.

The contract he gets would be the thing 4o give you pause.

 

[Hanji]

https://nypost.com/2021/10/20/vitali-kravtsovs-real-reason-for-rangers-unhappiness/

Sorry, this just doesn't pass the smell test.

..entirely based on his belief he would never get a crack at a permanent spot on the Rangers’ top six because wingers Artemi Panarin, Chris Kreider, Alexis Lafreniere and Kaapo Kakko were ahead of him on the depth chart.

If true, why did he even attend pre-season camp? Why not ask for a trade in the off-season?
Sure Kravtsov is spoiled but he isn't stupid. It's painfully obvious to anybody with a half-functioning brain that Kravtsov was never gonna be ahead of these guys on the depth chart, at least this year. Those 4 were penciled in from day 1. He didn't need to be sent to the AHL to know this.

This reeks of damage control by the NYR via Brooks.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

Sorry, this just doesn't pass the smell test.



If true, why did he even attend pre-season camp? Why not ask for a trade in the off-season?
Sure Kravtsov is spoiled but he isn't stupid. It's painfully obvious to anybody with a half-functioning brain that Kravtsov was never gonna be ahead of these guys on the depth chart, at least this year. Those 4 were penciled in from day 1. He didn't need to be sent to the AHL to know this.

This reeks of damage control by the NYR via Brooks.

The same Larry Brooks that tried to shit on the Rangers saying that no one showed up to Rod Gilbert's funeral?

He's the last person to run damage control stories for this organization.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The same Larry Brooks that tried to shit on the Rangers saying that no one showed up to Rod Gilbert's funeral?

He's the last person to run damage control stories for this organization.

Larry had been the Rangers puppet for years.

 

[bobbop]

The Brooks story sounds like an agent trying to take the edge off of the dispute. Cool things down. Create a path for the player to come back.

Millstein is no idiot. He just took over as Kravtsov’s agent. He hasn’t made a dime on this client yet and won’t until there’s a new contract next year. He’s also laying the groundwork for a potential trade by making the dispute opportunity rather than conflict. The player is not a joke.

Sather is a long ways from this team. This is not his leak.

 

[2014nyr]

This is the last time I am even going to humor you with a response. Your arguments are THAT outlandish and display a complete lack of insight and understanding about hockey and player development. I was told not to flame so I won't. But damn, I probably shouldn't even entertain such unrealistic and absurd arguments, but here it goes.

This has ALMOST nothing to do with Krav anymore and everything to do with the absolutely nonsense arguments you are putting forth and the rant that comes with it and the way you seem to perceive hockey and player development, which is not based in reality.

You realize, you're arguments aren't making more sense the more you write but less sense right?

What you are saying about development and prospects is completely off the mark. It displays a complete lack of knowledge about hockey and player development. You can add as many words as you want, it doesn't improve the fundamentally fallacious arguments you are trying to make.

It's absolutely hysterical that you can say all this with a straight face and then attempt to criticize my knowledge and history with hockey.

The entire first paragraph you wrote is filled with falsehoods and fallacious assertions. Things like "pionk was signed outta college at 22 years old undrafted...he played parts of 3 seasons here. how much developing you think the rangers did?" To which the answer is, a good amount of developing if you understand what development is and how it works.

or "buch developed as a ranger. buch developed himself, not the other way around." Which is in reality a distinction without a difference on top of a falsehood. As if you have any clue what the organization did or did not do to help facilitate his progress. As if you know or could know that "Buch developed himself" as opposed to, as it usually is, a partnership between the player and team.

I mean, I gave you a fair chance and I have seen nothing but preposterous assumptions, cherry picked anecdotes and absolutely absurd rationalization in an attempt to "prove" what you can not prove. What you are arguing here, full of false assertions and misconceptions, doesn't hold any water what so ever.

This right here just shows the pure hypocrisy of your statements "yea guys work on all sorts of things throughout their career. you wanna last in the league you have to constantly look in the mirror at areas you can improve. sure coaches are gonna give feedback. you can always improve one off skills like a first step, your release, one timer etc by working at it. but no amount of organizational development, or any development, is turning kevin rooney into patrick kane."

What do you think development means? Again, this isn't some video game where guys power themselves up or teams power them up. Progress requires work and tutoring. Clubs facilitate that tutoring and players either accept or deny that help, they either succeed or fail with that help. Attempting to semantically alter the concept of development to fit your specific argument is either disingenuous or shows that you all ready know what you are suggesting is nonsense or you simply do not understand what player development is and what it means. What do you think "developing" means? What do you think people mean by "clubs developing players"? Everything you stated on this subject is a strawman.

First and foremost, you contradict your entire argument, you are admitting that clubs help develop their players. You said it. There is no way around that. But you then go on to strawman my argument as if I even suggested that a team can turn "Rooney into Kane". That bit right there shows the complete lack of understanding in this particular situation. You, not the Rangers, not hockey experts, not anyone who understands hockey, is suggesting that Kravtsov is a limited player with limited skills. Again, this has nothing to do with why the Rangers wanted him in Hartford, as stated by the Rangers themselves who cited "conditioning".

And that's not even touching on the obvious flaw in your argument and the obvious fact of reality that different players have different ceilings and floors and no one can help develop a player beyond that. But the fact that you think that applies to Kravtsov in this situation is what is completely laughable. Again, not even the Rangers are suggesting this. Only you are and I guess those handful that for whatever reason agree with you.

So you can repeat this nonsense as much as you like, but it doesn't change the fundamental failures of your argument.

The only suggestion I have for you is watch more hockey, please. Because these arguments you are putting forth are absolutely preposterous.

i have no idea what you're trying to say at this point or what you're responding to at points. the condescending tone though is a tough look. yea obviously teams give feedback, coaches give feedback...i didn't think that needed to be said. bottom line is, that stuff is nuance when it comes to coaching things like situational play - knowing when to cut your losses and dump a puck for example. thats not development - thats part of learning your system and the nhl game. development is material growth, not situational play. you wanna call that development, knock yourself out.

i don't know if its that you view coaching / roster fit impacts as development or lack thereof, but the pionk etc stuff...his progression had to do with a better fit system wise and taking on a larger role because of it. not because winnipeg has the secret sauce. but mostly i can't believe lias andersson was referenced as a good player now or ever. he's just not good at this level. he went from fringe ahl/nhl player here to fringe ahl/nhl player there. he wasn't a failure in development he was a failure of scouting.

but then i have no idea where you think i said krav isn't talented...i've been as high as anyone on his upside since we drafted him, i had no issues with his original departure or bringing him back. i thought he showed a lot coming back tbh, i had high hopes for him. i was a bit underwhelmed last season in his cup of tea in that he didn't show much in the way of creating offense carrying the puck through the neutral zone, taking guys on one on one etc...i thought he looked a little sluggish and not very creative. but i was very impressed with his effort coming back, he was really good at winning puck battles on the boards...i still had a ton of hope with an offseason working on skating he could become a lot more dangerous on the puck. this preseason did not impress tbh, but we didn't see much of him. was still optimistic he would ultimately over the course of the season take kreiders spot in the top 6 to give us our deepest / most dangerous lineup. so yea...not sure where you get i don't think he's any good. i definitely was hoping to see more, and obviously the org was given they couldn't justify keeping him in the spot they literally reserved for him with his camp.

idno if you thought i was comparing him to rooney and turning him into kane? because no, it goes back to the central point of this entire convo. that being that there are limits to how much anyone can improve at the nhl level. you are what you are when you arrive for the most part. depending on the age you break in there's a ton of physical development that can occur, you can improve situational awareness, at least moderately improve some technicals ie you can work on your one timer but no amount of shots is turning dryden hunt into ovi...no amount of skating work turning laf into mcdavid. but no player at that level is going to increase their hockey iq - and that is ultimately the limiting factor on anyone. and so in my eyes the only impact an nhl team has on the player a given prospect becomes is marginal.

 

[Unpredictable1]

I may have talked about this in another post earlier in this thread, but honestly I cannot remember.

I was 14 when Lindros got drafted by Quebec. We never had money for traveling teams, but god did I love playing this game. I'd have given anything to play ONE SHIFT for Quebec. Hell, I'd have gladly played for a minor league team. Yet here's this asshole refusing to go? I hated him from day one. He snubbed my dream because he was too good for them. This situation wreaks of something similar.

I'm not saying the Rangers brass is guilt free, not by a long shot, but ANY of these people that have been mentioned (Lias, ADA, etc) are just as guilty to me. They get to play hockey for a living. Something I'm sure literally any of us here wish we could do. So what if Drury gave him some shit? Grow the f*** up!

See, the one thing about this wonderful game isn't just the game itself, but the people involved. Take Mr. Gilbert as an example. He was one of the kindest, genuinely sweet and (most importantly) one of the most humble people you could ever meet. The wider world of hockey usually does a pretty good job of sifting these types out before they get a sniff of pro hockey, but there are always a few who get through, and with rare instance, their careers aren't usually the longest, and are also usually marred by bullshit.

Reality: He's got talent, but how he cannot get that missing half of pre-season means taking a week or two in the minors just to get in playing shape is somehow not to his advantage is beyond me. Hopefully we get a nice return for him. Keep players like this as far from this team as possible.

Dude, incredible post. I'm older than you, but you nailed everything.

Cheers

 

[Unpredictable1]

I have seen some short stories written on here very recently that I have never seen before, messages with lots of content...I'm actually caught off guard. Maybe I'm not on here enough?

 

[Ola]

Sorry, this just doesn't pass the smell test.

If true, why did he even attend pre-season camp? Why not ask for a trade in the off-season?
Sure Kravtsov is spoiled but he isn't stupid. It's painfully obvious to anybody with a half-functioning brain that Kravtsov was never gonna be ahead of these guys on the depth chart, at least this year. Those 4 were penciled in from day 1. He didn't need to be sent to the AHL to know this.

This reeks of damage control by the NYR via Brooks.

100%.

 

[SA16]

Ship him to the Sharks for Evander Kane at 50%. 3.5M cap hit for a big fast physical wing who can score.

 

[jay from jersey]

Ridley Greig out of Ottawa.

They aren’t gonna move him. We liked him at the draft, but he’s only improved his status since then. Besides Norris and Pinto they don’t have much at center. They most likely have Greig earmarked as their 3 c for a very long time.
Ott is tough to trade with. They aren’t going to trade good prospects. They have trouble attracting UFAs.
Unless the move is purely financial like Zibby. That wasn’t really a trade, we basically Bought him because they didn’t want to pay him. We were just Lucky we had Brassard and most of his real money was paid off already.
The sens will pretty much never deal ELC/first contract talent. It’s the only way they survive.
Getting Tkachuk to stay for 8 years was quite a coup even know they overpaid a bit. Usually guys are running from OTT the first chance they get. Dorian has done an excellent job their. They’ve also had their share of luck with the Karlsson trade looking completely one sided........ in Ottawa's favor.
Norris, Batherson, and Stutzle + ,for a banged up overpaid Karlsson whose lost a step. Come on.
That’s like the great train robbery. Hell, even Tierney is a solid 3C atm.
No one anywhere saw those 2 guys developing this way and the 1st being a top 3 pick in a solid draft.

 

[Ola]

I may have talked about this in another post earlier in this thread, but honestly I cannot remember.

I was 14 when Lindros got drafted by Quebec. We never had money for traveling teams, but god did I love playing this game. I'd have given anything to play ONE SHIFT for Quebec. Hell, I'd have gladly played for a minor league team. Yet here's this asshole refusing to go? I hated him from day one. He snubbed my dream because he was too good for them. This situation wreaks of something similar.

I'm not saying the Rangers brass is guilt free, not by a long shot, but ANY of these people that have been mentioned (Lias, ADA, etc) are just as guilty to me. They get to play hockey for a living. Something I'm sure literally any of us here wish we could do. So what if Drury gave him some shit? Grow the f*** up!

See, the one thing about this wonderful game isn't just the game itself, but the people involved. Take Mr. Gilbert as an example. He was one of the kindest, genuinely sweet and (most importantly) one of the most humble people you could ever meet. The wider world of hockey usually does a pretty good job of sifting these types out before they get a sniff of pro hockey, but there are always a few who get through, and with rare instance, their careers aren't usually the longest, and are also usually marred by bullshit.

Reality: He's got talent, but how he cannot get that missing half of pre-season means taking a week or two in the minors just to get in playing shape is somehow not to his advantage is beyond me. Hopefully we get a nice return for him. Keep players like this as far from this team as possible.

I agree. But at the same time, nothing could matter less, for us, this team and so forth, right?

Are their ways to avoid situations like this? Honestly, we don’t know the specifics and no rule is without exceptions. But there are certainly ways to minimize them. We also know that we have been managed by people that regularly have made very poor decisions.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Ship him to the Sharks for Evander Kane at 50%. 3.5M cap hit for a big fast physical wing who can score.

This is the kind of move I could get behind in theory (malcontent for malcontent), but Kane is just such a toxic player. The guy is a gambling addict, drowning in debt, in the middle of a contentious divorce, and he still finds a way to make things even worse by falsifying vaccine docs. Stay far, far away.

 

[jay from jersey]

Ship him to the Sharks for Evander Kane at 50%. 3.5M cap hit for a big fast physical wing who can score.

They should avoid him like the plague. Buffalo is still reaping the effects of that trade. When attempting a culture shift with so many young impressionable guys, Kane is just the wrong tutor.
He’s a throwback to the dark ages of this team. High paid, solid talent, that can care less if he wins or loses. Basically just a mercenary out for himself.
Add him to the list of Bobby Holik, Gomez, Val Kammensky, etc and all the rest.
Building a Winning culture and making this team a cup contender is far down on his list of priorities

 

[duhmetreE]

Where'd these Greig rumors come from? did I miss something?

Kravtsov for Greig in a heartbeat

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Ship him to the Sharks for Evander Kane at 50%. 3.5M cap hit for a big fast physical wing who can score.

Orrrr not.

Kid is self destructive, has gotten in almost every kind of trouble imaginable off the ice. His teammates didn't want him back on the team. Stay as far away from that kind of cancer as you can.

 

[jay from jersey]

Where'd these Greig rumors come from? did I miss something?

Kravtsov for Greig in a heartbeat

No way OTT does this