Confirmed with Link: Kravtsov requests trade

[bbny]

Dylan Strome is good. Not sure why people don't like him. Well I do know why. Because he's slow and below average defensively. Nevermind the fact he scored over 2 pts/60 in back to back full seasons. in 1819 and 1920. He would be a very worthwhile add. He's skilled and very good offensively. Presumably this so-called great head coach Gallant should be able to teach him how to be better on the defensive side.

Sir, that is over 100 years apart, not back to back seasons.

 

[duhmetreE]

If you've listened to his interviews regarding resigning it's very clear he is not resigning there. Obviously there'd have to be a decent plus in the offer, but I think VK is a solid first piece to a trade like that

I'm hesitant to give up anything for Hertl. I'm REALLY hesitant to give him anything more than 5 years.. even that is pushing it.

 

[mas0764]

The expect(ed) the same from Chytil, Jones, Barron, Callahan, and countless others. All of them took their assignment after playing pro games. None of them created drama. They put their head down and worked for it. That's what you expect from a supposed professional. Every single one of them put up better numbers than Kravtsov in the AHL too, btw. He has not been impressive--certainly nowhere near impressive enough to expect a roster spot.

Kravtsov refused to report. f*** him. Watch Pajuniemi put up a better clip.

All of this has been mentioned probably 100 times. I don't know why i'm still trying to reason with the pro-kravt crowd

It’s been mentioned 100 times and it convinced no one because it’s irrelevant what Chytil and Barron and everyone else did. No one said Kravtsov is completely without blame.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

The Rangers f***ed this up good, as per usual. The best move would have been to play him to begin the season to showcase him and then move him. I don't think Drury understands the concept of leverage, he has zero!

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The Rangers f***ed this up good, as per usual. The best move would have been to play him to begin the season to showcase him and then move him. I don't think Drury understands the concept of leverage. He has zero!

It’s becoming obvious to me, over the last several months that Drury is not going to be a good GM. Getting rid of Gorton and JD will go down and the biggest mistake this organization ever made.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Yeah my God did he ever screw himself. He would probably be getting 16-18 minutes for several games but decided to bitch out the week Kakko went down.

That would've lined up perfectly for when Kakko came back, for both him and the club - his value wouldve been 2x better. And who knows - if he produced and is actually as good as he feels he is he might have taken the spot from him and never looked back.

It's incredibly frustrating. Also frustrating that they could have easily kept him up and waived Gauthier. I do wonder if part of that decision-making was as much a test for Kravtsov as it was not wanting to lose Gauthier (I'm sure it was also wanting Kravtsov to get top line AHL reps). Obviously Kravtsov failed the test, and that's on him. But I can't help but be frustrated by the "what if" on this one.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Does hertl for VK + make sense right now for both teams?

Sign me up.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

It's incredibly frustrating. Also frustrating that they could have easily kept him up and waived Gauthier. I do wonder if part of that decision-making was as much a test for Kravtsov as it was not wanting to lose Gauthier (I'm sure it was also wanting Kravtsov to get top line AHL reps). Obviously Kravtsov failed the test, and that's on him. But I can't help but be frustrated by the "what if" on this one.

There should be NO “games” being played with a 9OA whom has the potential to bolt at the slightest sign of adversity. Again, these poor draft choices/decisions are what set franchises back years. The Rangers only saving grace is that players typically want to sign here.

 

[NYSPORTS]

So is he suspended w/o pay?

 

[tbassler]

So is he suspended w/o pay?

yes

 

[brakeyawself]

you wanna talk about making no sense? i don't think you have any idea about hockey development or an nhl organizations involvement with it. or the definition of development. pionk was signed outta college at 22 years old undrafted...he played parts of 3 seasons here. how much developing you think the rangers did? you think they sent him to skills and drills in the offseason that improved him? blackwell was here for 45 games after like 5 years in the minors of nashville and the rangers developed him?? lias andersson flat out sucks. buch developed as a ranger. buch developed himself, not the other way around. he took to heart what was expected of him and put the work in to become that player. newsflash..every player in every org is given feedback on where/what to improve if they want to excel - its not rocket science to figure out whats needed. mgmt knows it, coaches know it, the players who are self aware know it. so why doesn't every player maximize their potential? because most aren't willing to do what it takes. some meet physical limitations.

"players showing their actual potential when they left"...as in they were developed and a change of scenery / roster fit allowed them to display that ability. or overnight they were developed in a new org?

sorry you're so offended about krav but the truth is the truth. he gets news he doesn't like and packs his bag and flies home? thats not a rational response. you're unhappy and want a trade...give yourself the shortest path to that. he's just reactive because he still hasn't figured out the world doesn't revolve around keeping him happy. put all the lipstick on that pig you want, i'll call a spade a spade. if you think its in his or the orgs best interest to enable that kinda mentality you're just burying your head in the sand

and you're proving my point exactly with horvat..van knew it, he knew it, the whole world knew it - he wasn't the best skater, so he worked at it. thats the player committing to developing, it wasn't some genius strategy rolled out by van. look at kakko who was a horrific skater year one, way better year 2, and looks to have taken another massive step this year. he developed, the rangers didn't do that. sure they talked bout it in exit interviews etc but you don't think he knew it was a weakness? same applies to laf.

yea guys work on all sorts of things throughout their career. you wanna last in the league you have to constantly look in the mirror at areas you can improve. sure coaches are gonna give feedback. you can always improve one off skills like a first step, your release, one timer etc by working at it. but no amount of organizational development, or any development, is turning kevin rooney into patrick kane. you are what you are broadly speaking. you can add features that can increase versatility / value, but you can't teach hockey sense. brady skjei had all the tools in the world, and he improved technically at them over his years here. you know what didn't improve? his hockey sense. adam fox is the polar opposite and just won of norris because he's arguably the smartest player in the league. the rangers had did not develop that.

there's cases where coaches or an org have had a substantial impact ie some scorers coming up having to reinvent themselves as grinders to carve out a career. most of the time the players themselves recognize it.

bottom line your ability is what it is long before you reach the nhl. you can develop physically, technically, work at situational play, and manipulate the style of game you play. but bottom line is if you don't have it upstairs you're limited. and upstairs goes for both hockey sense on the ice and having the right mental approach off of it. the best thing an org can do is provide feedback to kids, make sure they're in the right place mentally and in a good situation for their confidence / ambition pre arrival. and then provide an organizational culture thats open and pushes guys to be their best. if you do that waters gonna find its level. a great way to not do that is to kowtow to a high pick who thinks he's gonna dictate his role as a 21 year old so that he doesn't pick up his ball and go home.

This is the last time I am even going to humor you with a response. Your arguments are THAT outlandish and display a complete lack of insight and understanding about hockey and player development. I was told not to flame so I won't. But damn, I probably shouldn't even entertain such unrealistic and absurd arguments, but here it goes.

This has ALMOST nothing to do with Krav anymore and everything to do with the absolutely nonsense arguments you are putting forth and the rant that comes with it and the way you seem to perceive hockey and player development, which is not based in reality.

You realize, you're arguments aren't making more sense the more you write but less sense right?

What you are saying about development and prospects is completely off the mark. It displays a complete lack of knowledge about hockey and player development. You can add as many words as you want, it doesn't improve the fundamentally fallacious arguments you are trying to make.

It's absolutely hysterical that you can say all this with a straight face and then attempt to criticize my knowledge and history with hockey.

The entire first paragraph you wrote is filled with falsehoods and fallacious assertions. Things like "pionk was signed outta college at 22 years old undrafted...he played parts of 3 seasons here. how much developing you think the rangers did?" To which the answer is, a good amount of developing if you understand what development is and how it works.

or "buch developed as a ranger. buch developed himself, not the other way around." Which is in reality a distinction without a difference on top of a falsehood. As if you have any clue what the organization did or did not do to help facilitate his progress. As if you know or could know that "Buch developed himself" as opposed to, as it usually is, a partnership between the player and team.

I mean, I gave you a fair chance and I have seen nothing but preposterous assumptions, cherry picked anecdotes and absolutely absurd rationalization in an attempt to "prove" what you can not prove. What you are arguing here, full of false assertions and misconceptions, doesn't hold any water what so ever.

This right here just shows the pure hypocrisy of your statements "yea guys work on all sorts of things throughout their career. you wanna last in the league you have to constantly look in the mirror at areas you can improve. sure coaches are gonna give feedback. you can always improve one off skills like a first step, your release, one timer etc by working at it. but no amount of organizational development, or any development, is turning kevin rooney into patrick kane."

What do you think development means? Again, this isn't some video game where guys power themselves up or teams power them up. Progress requires work and tutoring. Clubs facilitate that tutoring and players either accept or deny that help, they either succeed or fail with that help. Attempting to semantically alter the concept of development to fit your specific argument is either disingenuous or shows that you all ready know what you are suggesting is nonsense or you simply do not understand what player development is and what it means. What do you think "developing" means? What do you think people mean by "clubs developing players"? Everything you stated on this subject is a strawman.

First and foremost, you contradict your entire argument, you are admitting that clubs help develop their players. You said it. There is no way around that. But you then go on to strawman my argument as if I even suggested that a team can turn "Rooney into Kane". That bit right there shows the complete lack of understanding in this particular situation. You, not the Rangers, not hockey experts, not anyone who understands hockey, is suggesting that Kravtsov is a limited player with limited skills. Again, this has nothing to do with why the Rangers wanted him in Hartford, as stated by the Rangers themselves who cited "conditioning".

And that's not even touching on the obvious flaw in your argument and the obvious fact of reality that different players have different ceilings and floors and no one can help develop a player beyond that. But the fact that you think that applies to Kravtsov in this situation is what is completely laughable. Again, not even the Rangers are suggesting this. Only you are and I guess those handful that for whatever reason agree with you.

So you can repeat this nonsense as much as you like, but it doesn't change the fundamental failures of your argument.

The only suggestion I have for you is watch more hockey, please. Because these arguments you are putting forth are absolutely preposterous.

 

[bobbop]

Too bad Tuch is out LT. He'd be my ask. And obviously knows Gallant.

I'd still take him and wait for him to get healthy.

 

[bobbop]

Bob.....you have been around hockey all your life at many levels.....you know which guy knows .

I suspect there is a lot of interest but as someone else said, there are a lot of second round draft picks on the table.

I'd just sit tight. Kravtsov isn't going anywhere until he is traded or he fulfills the last year of his Ranger contract. Sooner or later something will happen. Like injuries on other teams.

 

[bobbop]

Krebs? did you get a hint? It's probably absurd

No I didn't

 

[aufheben]

I'd still take him and wait for him to get healthy.

I’d probably trade 3x Kravtsovs for Tuch even if it was made publicly available that Tuch wouldn’t play until the 2022-23 season.

 

[aufheben]

you wanna talk about making no sense? i don't think you have any idea about hockey development or an nhl organizations involvement with it. or the definition of development. pionk was signed outta college at 22 years old undrafted...he played parts of 3 seasons here. how much developing you think the rangers did? you think they sent him to skills and drills in the offseason that improved him? blackwell was here for 45 games after like 5 years in the minors of nashville and the rangers developed him?? lias andersson flat out sucks. buch developed as a ranger. buch developed himself, not the other way around. he took to heart what was expected of him and put the work in to become that player. newsflash..every player in every org is given feedback on where/what to improve if they want to excel - its not rocket science to figure out whats needed. mgmt knows it, coaches know it, the players who are self aware know it. so why doesn't every player maximize their potential? because most aren't willing to do what it takes. some meet physical limitations.

"players showing their actual potential when they left"...as in they were developed and a change of scenery / roster fit allowed them to display that ability. or overnight they were developed in a new org?

sorry you're so offended about krav but the truth is the truth. he gets news he doesn't like and packs his bag and flies home? thats not a rational response. you're unhappy and want a trade...give yourself the shortest path to that. he's just reactive because he still hasn't figured out the world doesn't revolve around keeping him happy. put all the lipstick on that pig you want, i'll call a spade a spade. if you think its in his or the orgs best interest to enable that kinda mentality you're just burying your head in the sand

and you're proving my point exactly with horvat..van knew it, he knew it, the whole world knew it - he wasn't the best skater, so he worked at it. thats the player committing to developing, it wasn't some genius strategy rolled out by van. look at kakko who was a horrific skater year one, way better year 2, and looks to have taken another massive step this year. he developed, the rangers didn't do that. sure they talked bout it in exit interviews etc but you don't think he knew it was a weakness? same applies to laf.

yea guys work on all sorts of things throughout their career. you wanna last in the league you have to constantly look in the mirror at areas you can improve. sure coaches are gonna give feedback. you can always improve one off skills like a first step, your release, one timer etc by working at it. but no amount of organizational development, or any development, is turning kevin rooney into patrick kane. you are what you are broadly speaking. you can add features that can increase versatility / value, but you can't teach hockey sense. brady skjei had all the tools in the world, and he improved technically at them over his years here. you know what didn't improve? his hockey sense. adam fox is the polar opposite and just won of norris because he's arguably the smartest player in the league. the rangers had did not develop that.

there's cases where coaches or an org have had a substantial impact ie some scorers coming up having to reinvent themselves as grinders to carve out a career. most of the time the players themselves recognize it.

bottom line your ability is what it is long before you reach the nhl. you can develop physically, technically, work at situational play, and manipulate the style of game you play. but bottom line is if you don't have it upstairs you're limited. and upstairs goes for both hockey sense on the ice and having the right mental approach off of it. the best thing an org can do is provide feedback to kids, make sure they're in the right place mentally and in a good situation for their confidence / ambition pre arrival. and then provide an organizational culture thats open and pushes guys to be their best. if you do that waters gonna find its level. a great way to not do that is to kowtow to a high pick who thinks he's gonna dictate his role as a 21 year old so that he doesn't pick up his ball and go home.

Why stop at leagues just before the NHL? You could keep going and say every player was developed on a frozen lake.

Likewise development continues in the NHL as well. It’s not limited to recently drafted players aged like 18-22 years old.

 

[mas0764]

https://nypost.com/2021/10/20/vitali-kravtsovs-real-reason-for-rangers-unhappiness/

I don’t buy that for a second.

Put him in a skill role on the third line with similar minutes and it wouldn’t matter one damn bit.

 

[brakeyawself]

Why stop at leagues just before the NHL? You could keep going and say every player was developed on a frozen lake.

Likewise development continues in the NHL as well. It’s not limited to recently drafted players aged like 18-22 years old.

haha spot on.

 

[aufheben]

haha spot on.

Players continue to develop until the day they retire.

 

[brakeyawself]

Players continue to develop until the day they retire.

But, but.....the team has no hand in that development.....it's the players who "develop themselves" right? hahaha

I can't even humor his arguments anymore. Nothing about them is based on reality. I really don't even know how someone who supposedly watches hockey would come to such absurd conclusions.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It's funny because of Quinn was here it would be his fault

 

[brakeyawself]

I suspect there is a lot of interest but as someone else said, there are a lot of second round draft picks on the table.

I'd just sit tight. Kravtsov isn't going anywhere until he is traded or he fulfills the last year of his Ranger contract. Sooner or later something will happen. Like injuries on other teams.

I just worry, can't he just go play with the KHL if he wanted to? I know there are some restrictions on that, like teams can't have more than 3 NHL players on a KHL roster. But most of the guidelines have to do with non-Russian players as Russian players are exempt from a lot of the stipulations.

If he did go sign with some KHL team, that would certainly dampen interest in him for the foreseeable future. I am just not sure exactly how that would work if he's still under contract with the Rangers. I assume that the Rangers would have some mechanism of voiding his current contract in that case, or him needing to void the contract if he went to play in the KHL.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I don’t buy that for a second.

Put him in a skill role on the third line with similar minutes and it wouldn’t matter one damn bit.

Sather slipped Brooks a nice bottle of scotch for that

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I just worry, can't he just go play with the KHL if he wanted to? I know there are some restrictions on that, like teams can't have more than 3 NHL players on a KHL roster. But most of the guidelines have to do with non-Russian players as Russian players are exempt from a lot of the stipulations.

If he did go sign with some KHL team, that would certainly dampen interest in him for the foreseeable future.

He can't play in the KHL without the Ranger's permission.

 

[brakeyawself]

He can't play in the KHL without the Ranger's permission.

So only the Rangers can void the contract? Like he can't demand out of the contract to go to the KHL? I guess that's more what I was thinking.