Kraken 2024 Offseason chatter

[GrungeHockey]

Asking Francis to fix the team is not an easy out. I never said it was easy. But it's his damn job. We go into season 4 with really not much to show. Vegas won the Cup in Season 4. And I am not saying this to compare us to Vegas but do you think ownership expects to wait till season 6 or 7 till we start making the playoffs consistently? And like I mentioned before, Necas is an example. He is not the only player we can trade for. You mentioned someone like Tkachuk yourself. And while I agree that my offer may be a slight overpayment, it gets our team better immediately. Sure, Gourde could get a better return at the TDL. Let's say it is a late first. Now what? Another draft pick in the late 20's in the 2025 draft or beyond, who is likely another 2-3 seasons away from helping us. You say you are not ignoring timelines, but when I asked you how long we wait for a solid core, your response was akin to "as long as it takes." That is just flat-out unrealistic, and Francis won't have a job if that happens.

I never mentioned about FA or overspending there. But why do you pick Lindholm as an example? How about Guentzel or Reinhart who are much better players? I just feel that people put too much stock into the draft and unproven prospects. I am not talking about gutting our prospect pool. I just don't think losing a 1st round pick in 2025 or Firkus is that big of a deal. We still have Rehkopf, Nyman, Goyette, Sale, Molgaard. We also have Nelson, Ottavainen, Price, Dragicevic. Francis has done a really good job drafting but the team has enough capital to afford losing one prospect and another mid-to-late round draft pick in 2025.

Building slowly and carefully the right way, is not a real option for a market like Seattle. And I still don't understand what you mean by slowly? Is this a 6 year plan? A 10 year plan? Or lets just wait till the stars align?

I realize I cannot change your mind so this conversation is fruitless, but I tried anyway.

I didn't mention Guentzel because Carolina wants to re-sign him (that's why Necas MIGHT get moved). I didn't mention Reinhart because he'd be a mistake. Career year in a contract year and maybe a cup so talk about an over pay coming. There's no consistent body of work to back up the money somebody will foolishly pay him. He's not Draisaitl. Wait for him instead if you want.

6-7 years to be a playoff team is reasonable imo. You need to balance the future with a consistent depth build. Six years is about right imo. If ownership wants more then yes, Ron loses his job but then we start over again.

The minute anyone mentions Vegas is just the end of a conversation because you know full well that'll never happen again. It was a crazy exception to all the rules and not worth going over yet again.

 

[Hocktopus]

Sorry that it has been a while since I have posted but, if this report is accurate, sounds like Guentzel is not resigning with Carolina

https://x.com/i/web/status/1799051123753669085

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Agree about free agency. It has its uses but even the top players in FA are unlikely to match our timelines. But, they would be a really good addition IF we had a solid core already. I guess I am just frustrated with the "in between" approach. If we are building only via the draft, my approach would be trade vets with maximum value and fill them with FA's who can fill similar roles at a lesser level. Get them on short term contracts (2-3 years max). I would love going into a draft with multiple 1st round picks, if that is the intent. For a team trying to build via the draft, I find it really strange that we have gone through 4 drafts with no more than 1 1st round pick per draft.

In a nutshell, management and Francis need to get on the same page. If management wants to win now, maybe Francis is not the right guy.

Well, we both are tired of the in between thing this team is doing.

That's also why we aren't really "building throug the draft" cause we're also "trying to win now".

I doubt management wants a real build through the draft(Holloway basically made that clear when she said "while winning right now") and that's why you have Francis bringing in those solid vets at around $5M to be competitive enough to at least be in and around a playoff spot almost every other year.

Overall I think management does want to win now(to keep establishing the team) but most likely would love to have a real "superstar" type of player they can market to the fans.
And those you either draft(but most likely not in the 8 - 14 range) or you trade for and the latter part is something I'm not sure Francis is capable of or even williing to give up the assets required for it.

 

[razor ray]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1799439186367250567

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Well, we both are tired of the in between thing this team is doing.

That's also why we aren't really "building throug the draft" cause we're also "trying to win now".

I doubt management wants a real build through the draft(Holloway basically made that clear when she said "while winning right now") and that's why you have Francis bringing in those solid vets at around $5M to be competitive enough to at least be in and around a playoff spot almost every other year.

Overall I think management does want to win now(to keep establishing the team) but most likely would love to have a real "superstar" type of player they can market to the fans.
And those you either draft(but most likely not in the 8 - 14 range) or you trade for and the latter part is something I'm not sure Francis is capable of or even williing to give up the assets required for it.

That part is my concern. I hope Francis learned from his Carolina days and has developed the ability to be aggressive when the situation demands. I am not too concerned about building via the draft, even if that means having another two or three more losing seasons. I don't agree with @GrungeHockey on a few things, but I am NOT opposed to building via the draft if it is done correctly.

But if management wants to win now, you need to try to get players who help that. Even if that means making moves that your personality is uncomfortable with. Don't spend resources on getting middle-of-the-line or depth players to make a half-ass effort towards it. I genuinely feel our 2nd season was an outlier. We surprised a lot of teams, had good depth, and were essentially able to catch lightning in a bottle. I don't expect the same "strategy" to work again.

 

[GrungeHockey]

Well Carolina's an interesting example of a team that built through the draft and only now has shifted to trying to add to get over the top, but the young core is there to build around. You try to add too much and you get into a cap squeeze and then you might have to unload a good young talent like Necas. It's a small window and it's tricky to balance.

Kraken don't really have that established young core yet. Beniers is a good player, but he's not Aho. Wright isn't even in the league yet. We need a few more young stars in that core before we can think about top tier competitiveness. Patience is required. In that time I think it's vital to have leaders and a strong culture in that locker room so the kids can grow and play the right way. This is where your Gourdes and other mid level players do matter.

I'm not against adding free agents if you get them to take reasonable deals, but I wouldn't break the bank thinking that's all you need, and I'd be very very reluctant to trade first round picks.

 

[Fuhrious]

What's more interesting to me is that Carolina's "young core", built through the draft, only has like one (Svechnikov iirc?) top 10 draft pick in it...

 

[majormajor]

Building through the draft does not mean sucking.

I think to build up assets we should be both keeping our draft picks and continually signing UFAs.

 

[kihei]

Salary cap up to 88 million, a rise of 4.5 million dollars.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Salary cap up to 88 million, a rise of 4.5 million dollars.

NHL Announces Salary Cap For 2024-25 Season

The NHL and NHLPA have announced the Team Payroll Range for the 2024-25 season. The salary cap upper limit has …

www.prohockeyrumors.com

 

[Hocktopus]

According to Cap Friendly, that leaves us with approx $23.4 million in cap space, with RFAs such as Matty to resign of course. Even if the RFA deals eat up $10 million, with most of that being Matty's new deal, that still gives us a lot of cap space for UFAs, trades, etc.

 

[Irie]

But if management wants to win now, you need to try to get players who help that. Even if that means making moves that your personality is uncomfortable with. Don't spend resources on getting middle-of-the-line or depth players to make a half-ass effort towards it. I genuinely feel our 2nd season was an outlier. We surprised a lot of teams, had good depth, and were essentially able to catch lightning in a bottle. I don't expect the same "strategy" to work again.

The problem with trading futures to win now is it would leave a team like Seattle with a barren farm and no ELC talent coming through the pipe to fill roster holes at a reasonable cost while the core of the team is not good enough to contend - it is the trap GMs fall into that keeps them in the "bubble team" position for years.

I think every team needs 3 strong core pieces to build around. This team drafted high in two weak drafts and then played themselves out of the lottery in a stronger draft year. Now they have some decent young talent, but they don't have that young core and certainly not the stars that make building a contender much easier.

There is a time for trading picks and prospects, but unless the goal is try to squeak into the playoffs and sacrifice the future, it is a bad idea currently. (and yes, I also realize that ownership is more interested in being competitive now to up their chances of landing an NBA franchise- these circumstances are not lost on me, but I am happy seeing Francis try to be competitive through Free agency, while saving his picks to build talent on the farm. It is a sub-optimal plan, but it will lead to a much better future for the Kraken than selling the farm to try to compete now.)

 

[Scomerica]

6-7 years to be a playoff team is reasonable imo. You need to balance the future with a consistent depth build. Six years is about right imo. If ownership wants more then yes, Ron loses his job but then we start over again.

Not saying you're wrong on this but it just feels out of whack with what ownership are saying to the media/fanbase who are giving off win now vibes. If we're going the patient approach which so far they mostly are, they have to manage expectations with the fanbase. It's not impossible to do, heck look at mariners ownership the last few years who haven't went big on trades/free agency despite them having a talented core but should be making bold moves to get to the top of the mountain.

All they have to say is we are building our core up through the draft to be consistent play off contenders and have a cup window. Taking the pain now etc. I just think they are because of nba expansion and the fear people lose interest.

 

[majormajor]

Not saying you're wrong on this but it just feels out of whack with what ownership are saying to the media/fanbase who are giving off win now vibes. If we're going the patient approach which so far they mostly are, they have to manage expectations with the fanbase. It's not impossible to do, heck look at mariners ownership the last few years who haven't went big on trades/free agency despite them having a talented core but should be making bold moves to get to the top of the mountain.

All they have to say is we are building our core up through the draft to be consistent play off contenders and have a cup window. Taking the pain now etc. I just think they are because of nba expansion and the fear people lose interest.

To add to that, you want to set the right tone for people within the organization. For the players especially you want them to have the mindset that this team is here to win right now. That will bring out the best in them.

 

[GrungeHockey]

Not saying you're wrong on this but it just feels out of whack with what ownership are saying to the media/fanbase who are giving off win now vibes. If we're going the patient approach which so far they mostly are, they have to manage expectations with the fanbase. It's not impossible to do, heck look at mariners ownership the last few years who haven't went big on trades/free agency despite them having a talented core but should be making bold moves to get to the top of the mountain.

All they have to say is we are building our core up through the draft to be consistent play off contenders and have a cup window. Taking the pain now etc. I just think they are because of nba expansion and the fear people lose interest.

Owners lying to fans? No, never happens

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Not saying you're wrong on this but it just feels out of whack with what ownership are saying to the media/fanbase who are giving off win now vibes. If we're going the patient approach which so far they mostly are, they have to manage expectations with the fanbase. It's not impossible to do, heck look at mariners ownership the last few years who haven't went big on trades/free agency despite them having a talented core but should be making bold moves to get to the top of the mountain.

All they have to say is we are building our core up through the draft to be consistent play off contenders and have a cup window. Taking the pain now etc. I just think they are because of nba expansion and the fear people lose interest.

That would have honestly been my preferred approach as well. But with the external factors like the NBA, etc. it seems like management is not in a mood to be patient. Can't blame them either.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Looks like Laine wants out of CBJ. We likely to have any interest in him?

 

[The Marquis]

Looks like Laine wants out of CBJ. We likely to have any interest in him?

I hope not. I’m not really a fan of the guy. He needs a big market where he can get a lot of attention or he’s going to be unhappy.

 

[Fuhrious]

I feel like I may have said this before, but I was a huge fan of his with the Jets, but…

Something broke mentally with the kid when he started getting shamed all over social media for being “addicted to Fortnite”. He was incredibly dominant prior to that, and I have a hard time believing that was some fluke or hot streak. I’ll always feel like that completely derailed his trajectory as an up and coming star in the league.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I hope not. I’m not really a fan of the guy. He needs a big market where he can get a lot of attention or he’s going to be unhappy.

I feel like I may have said this before, but I was a huge fan of his with the Jets, but…

Something broke mentally with the kid when he started getting shamed all over social media for being “addicted to Fortnite”. He was incredibly dominant prior to that, and I have a hard time believing that was some fluke or hot streak. I’ll always feel like that completely derailed his trajectory as an up and coming star in the league.

The combination of him being one-dimensional and having a cap hit of 8.7M for another two seasons is very likely to keep us away from him. That plus, I have no idea how much it would cost to land him. I would give him a shot in FA, but really don't want to give up assets for him at that cost.

Did not know about the Fortnite thing. Very unfortunate. Social media has its positives but there is too much of shaming on that medium.

 

[Fuhrious]

Enh, maybe "incredibly dominant" is rose-tinted glasses. He was extremely streaky and prone to dopey "low effort" mistakes (and getting yelled at by Byfuglien for them)...like rookies tend to do. But he was putting up ~35 goals iirc and people were calling him a young Ovechkin, which is obviously solid accolades.

 

[majormajor]

Enh, maybe "incredibly dominant" is rose-tinted glasses. He was extremely streaky and prone to dopey "low effort" mistakes (and getting yelled at by Byfuglien for them)...like rookies tend to do. But he was putting up ~35 goals iirc and people were calling him a young Ovechkin, which is obviously solid accolades.

Dominant or not, it was something really special.

https://x.com/i/web/status/981323411006799873

 

[kihei]

Dominant or not, it was something really special.

https://x.com/i/web/status/981323411006799873

Looks a little more impressive than it is when I remember that Gretzky had an additional 46 goals as a teen in the WHL

To the larger question: I'd pass on Laine. If we are throwing a lot of assets at a hired gun, let's not have any questions about his compete level.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Looks a little more impressive than it is when I remember that Gretzky had an additional 46 goals as a teen in the WHL

To the larger question: I'd pass on Laine. If we are throwing a lot of assets at a hired gun, let's not have any questions about his compete level.

How would anyone give up "a lot of assets" for Laine given his contract, injury problems and the fact he wants out?

I think CBJ will retain some but it won't be that expensive.

 

[Dead Coyote]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1799439186367250567

Not a Seattle fan (...yet?) but I am a prospect fan and I have to say that IMHO the Kraken have one of the most underrated prospect pools in the NHL.

Their prospect pool is full, and I mean absolutely full of guys who could easily look like steals in the next few years. IMO they also snagged a lot of guys who could have easily gone in the first round but didn't, primarily due to lack of scouting or having one glaring "issue" in their game,

1. Wright

Perceived 1st overall pick who went 4th. Only 20 years old. Should get a significant opportunity to play in the NHL next year. Definite 1st overall talent.

2. Eduard Sale

People will discount Sale because he looked unimpressive in his draft year in a mens league or because he didn't score enough in his first year in NA or because they see issues with his motor or think he's inconsistent. And to a degree, some of that is cause for concern. Mostly the inconsistency. But this was also a guy who was projected to go top 5 in his D-1 and had numbers in the U20 league as a 16yo that were pretty unheard of. He definitely has top 5 talent, and he could easily be a better version of a Gabe Perreault if he adjusts and finds his consistency.

3. OFM

Some people already had him as a 1st rounder and since then he's been the top D+1 scorer in the SHL, seen the most time, and has .1 ppg less than David Edstrom, who was 20+ picks ahead of him. Not that I'm not also incredibly high on some of the other guys in that league who went ahead of him but that pick looks hella good and is only going to get better.

4. Jagger Firkus
I'm actually a huge fan of Firkus so it's surprising to me that I would put him 4th on this list but he does have some size concerns to go along with his talent and it's hard to argue he's done more than OFM when he's never played in a mens league or the AHL. He definitely still has that top line talent and could easily turn into the next Debrincat though, who also made me wonder as an avid OHL/CHL watcher why the hell he dropped so low when it was so obvious of how much talent he had on an absolutely stacked Erie team where he also just happened to pretty much carry the team on his back.

Firkus is the same way who has extremely projectable skills and often looks like the most dangerous forward on the ice for both teams. He has super high hockey IQ and doesn't play in a detrimental way for a small player. He's also not even *that* small.

5-10
Nyman

Another guy who has shown he can be productive at all levels, has a nose for the net, an excellent shot, and great offensive instincts. He could easily be a complimentary piece on the 1st or 2nd lines and if he develops his speed and acceleration more and is engaged in the d-zone he could be a really great player.

Dragicevic
Dragicevic was one of my favorite players in the 23 draft and I had him as a 1st rounder by the time the draft came around. He just has 1D written all over him. His skating isn't amazing, as it's rather bullish, but I never had the defensive concerns that others had about him. Yeah, sometimes he makes bad plays or a bad pinch and turns the puck over, but that's something almost all young D do. I would put him on almost exactly the same level as Parekh in this draft, for example. Parekh's skating is better, but Parekh also had a team in front of him that wasn't complete garbage like Tri-City was. He has good IQ and stickwork, he can be physical, he's good at separating players from pucks, his board work is fine, his shot is great, he can QB a PP easily, he has smooth hands and is a great stickhandler and he can also attack off the rush. Outside of maybe ASP I think he has the most offensive talent of any D in that draft and also the highest upside, though that's a lot more debateable if you see Simashev, Reinbacher, or Willander being able to put up points in the NHL.

Ty Nelson
Another pretty underrated guy. He has a couple things to work on to maximize his role in the NHL but he's already pretty solid, he doesn't have the potential of the other guys but he still projects pretty well, especially for a 3rd round pick. Getting a guy who even has the potential to put up 40-50 points in the NHL as a 3rd rounder is insanely good value.

Rehkopf
Much like Sale this kid has incredible talent and high offense ability and one of the best shots in his draft year. Also much like Sale he's been touted as inconsistent and some people think his defensive game could use work. For my part I'm not as high on him as I am Sale but he undoubtedly has a likely NHL future ahead of him as at least a complimentary PPer. He could easily blossom into a 1st line talent if he keeps improving.

David Goyette
He's a little undersized but he's another guy who only really has one thing to work on, and he's working on it a lot with the Kraken, his defensive game. Offensively he has slick hands and can both pass or shoot and is good at reading the play and opening up lanes with his stick handling to find open spots for his teammates. His skating is also solid. He showed this year that his offensive talents and instincts are top notch and he has pretty high upside for a 2nd round pick I think. His defensive game has also vastly improved although he still probably needs some work on bulking up and adjusting to play against men.

Price
Steady all round two way d-man, supposedly there were perceived attitude issues? that held him back in interviews and caused him to drop but on talent he's a 1st or 2nd round talent who is already solid defensively but maybe doesn't have the highest upside offensively. I still think he's good enough as a puck mover and good enough defensively and on the point that he can carve out a career as a potential top 4D.

HM:
Forsfjall (projects as elite 3rd or 4th line shut down center and PKer who has a small but outside chance of putting up some decent middle six points)
Winterton (Fantastic player who I got to watch a bunch in the OHL, he kind of does it all. I think he's going to be a solid two way piece that's great on the forecheck and can play up and down the lineup as a complimentary piece)

I also think Loshko and Melanson were great picks but I can't give a scouting report for them as I haven't seen them much at all since I generally only watch the Q in the late playoffs/mem cup and didn't pay a ton of attention to them in '23 when I scouted more.

Seattle only has 3 draft years to work with and I can't say much about their 2021 draft but I thought their 2023 draft was one of the best among all teams, especially given they drafted at 20 as their highest pick and IMO still got multiple potential top line/top paring talents and several players who have a great chance to be productive players at the NHL level and be top 6/top 4 players. Their 2022 draft I also thought was pretty good, and they've just kept stockpiling all these great picks and have a bright future ahead of them. I think the team is in a great position right now where they aren't quite ready to push for a playoff spot each year consistently but they have a TON of guys who could impact their NHL roster sooner than later and a few guys who have the potential to be the elite talent they're looking for, which I think is quite impressive considering their draft positions. Not to mention Wright and Beniers continuing to progress and already looking like very good talents. I wouldn't be shocked to see Beniers break out next year at all, similar path to a guy like Suzuki in Montreal.