Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick

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agentfouser

Playoffs?!?!
Nov 30, 2003
2,466
0
Los Angeles
I don't think I'd trade our "spine"--top line center, top pair defenseman, starting goalie--for any other team's.

It's interesting that as an assemblage, they are not the result of simply tanking and drafting high to accumulate top-level talent (like Pittsburgh and arguably Chicago). We took Kopitar at 11th in 2005, and although he had been identified as the top European skater by (nearly?) all the major scouting services going into the draft, it was also clear that teams were unwilling to take a chance on him because he came from Slovenia.

Doughty we obviously got second overall in 2008, but that's a bit of luck as well. Stamkos is a great player, no doubt, but as far as team impact of the top players drafted that year, there's no question I'd want Doughty. We're a bit lucky that we dropped to 2nd, since Stamkos was the consensus #1 pick.

And Quick was a third-round pick (72nd overall) in 2005. His rise to this point is, I think, down to slow development and Bill Ranford. At some point, I might write a long piece on Ranford, and how important he's been to our franchise. (Fun fact, I remember seeing Ranford play for the Oilers against the Gretzky Kings at the Forum. He absolutely shut us down.)

Also interesting is that aside from those three picks, the first round picks we took from 2005-2008 have not been that important. Notable names are Jonathan Bernier--a capable goalie and the guy people thought Quick would ultimately give way to, but in the end he couldn't displace Quick and was traded for a fairly disappointing return--and Trevor Lewis--a solid servant of the club but hardly an elite player. We also took Thomas Hickey and Colten Teubert, neither of whom have solidified their status as NHL players, nevermind really high quality impact players. You can see in those two picks plus the acquisition of Jack Johnson the way that Lombardi was trying to build a young defensive core. Things would be even better for us now if one of those three had really worked out.

Unfortunately, that's the risk you run when you draft on need and not best player available. Both Teubert and Hickey were reaches at their draft positions, #13 in 2008 and #4 in 2007 respectively. It's hindsight, but it would be pretty nice if we'd taken Erik Karlsson in 2008, who went a few picks after Teubert. Lombardi wanted a big, mean defenseman, I guess.

Second round picks in that time include Danny Roussin, T. J. Fast, Joey Ryan, and Oscar Moller, none of whom was able to become a full-time NHL player; we also got Wayne Simmonds (miss you, man) and Slava Voynov, both of whom could be seen as playing important roles (though indirectly, in Simmonds's case) in our franchise's development.

So, what can we learn from this? First, the Kings have not become an elite team because they tanked. In fact, our draft record is a bit underwhelming. Second, however, is the importance of development after the player is drafted. Indeed, some important players have been undrafted--like Jake Muzzin (I know there are others, but I can't think of who else right now). EDIT: KopitarFAN rightly points that Muzzin was in fact drafted, but not by us; he was taken by Pittsburgh 141st overall in 2007. He didn't sign with them, however, and we picked him up as a free agent. I suppose that the main point--that we've been able to acquire and develop players outside the top rounds of the draft--remains.

Thoughts?
 
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I'm also impressed that our 'core' was not the sole result of top-5 picks, though you can argue it's appalling that we've done very little in the first round outside of Doughty.

I think it speaks to how good of an all-around organization we have. Drafting, development, trading, signing, we've gotten great results from all of the above over time, not just tanking for the best players or signing high-profile free agents. That's what has pushed us over the top imo and will continue to serve us well.
 
Really hoping Forbort pans out for the Kings. I know a few on here have soured on him.

Well, he's a mid-first, so I don't really throw him in the same category as Hickey/Schenn, but after Teubert, having a second "project" defenseman in the first round bust would be awful use of picks.

I still think he's a project with a long road ahead of him. If both he and the organization have the patience to let him marinate for another couple of years in the AHL, we'll see. But we're rife with #5-6 types, so unless he really distinguishes himself as a #3-4, it's not looking good.
 
I wouldn't trade Kopitar for ANYBODY in the nhl at this point:
--Crosby is a generational superstar, but he's a whiney primadona.... Kopitar is beyond likeable and humble. So call me crazy but i'd still rather have Kopitar
--Stamkos comes close because he's just crazy amazing at scoring goals with a good head on his shoulders...but... kopitar plays all-world defense.. and i'd rather have the most well rounded player in the league (kopitar).
--Toews is probably right up there with Kopitar as the most well rounded player in the league.. but to me it's a tie.. both have proven to be playoff-clutch... however I'd still take Kopitar, even though Toews has won more.
 
It's all about player development. ALL about player development. That's why whenever I see those "Which team is awesome at the draft" threads I chuckle. Anyone thinking that good drafting is the key to long-term success probably thinks that Michelin-rated restaurants are good because they get the best ingredients. Someone's gotta cook that food too, you know.

Without the development system that Lombardi and team have put together, Quick would be Daniel Taylor 2.0, Kopitar would be pre-Colorado Sakic, and Doughty would be... well, actually, Doughty would probably have a Norris trophy by now (but probably no Cup).
 
It's all about player development. ALL about player development. That's why whenever I see those "Which team is awesome at the draft" threads I chuckle. Anyone thinking that good drafting is the key to long-term success probably thinks that Michelin-rated restaurants are good because they get the best ingredients. Someone's gotta cook that food too, you know.

Without the development system that Lombardi and team have put together, Quick would be Daniel Taylor 2.0, Kopitar would be pre-Colorado Sakic, and Doughty would be... well, actually, Doughty would probably have a Norris trophy by now (but probably no Cup).
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. It was interesting browsing through a few teams draft lists while I wrote this, and seeing just how many draftees either never make it to the NHL or play just a handful of games. Development is really the key. I'm actually thinking through a longer piece on the development of defensemen under Dean Lombardi, though I don't know if I'll get it written before the summer.
 
It's all about player development. ALL about player development. That's why whenever I see those "Which team is awesome at the draft" threads I chuckle. Anyone thinking that good drafting is the key to long-term success probably thinks that Michelin-rated restaurants are good because they get the best ingredients. Someone's gotta cook that food too, you know.

Without the development system that Lombardi and team have put together, Quick would be Daniel Taylor 2.0, Kopitar would be pre-Colorado Sakic, and Doughty would be... well, actually, Doughty would probably have a Norris trophy by now (but probably no Cup).

Yup, that's why we call Manchester the factory. I don't care about Calder Cups, I care about Stanley Cups.
 
Not too many teams can say they have a franchise forward, d-man and goalie. Is there any team besides the Kings that can say they have that?
 
Not too many teams can say they have a franchise forward, d-man and goalie. Is there any team besides the Kings that can say they have that?

I've been thinking about this. The Kings have elite talent at all three cornerstone positions.

#1 Center - Anze Kopitar
#1 Defenseman - Drew Doughty
Goalie - Jonathan Quick

I wouldn't trade either Doughty or Quick straight up for any other player in the NHL at their respective position and the only player I would consider trading Kopitar for would be Crosby; and that's really a compliment to Kopitar because Crosby will go down as the best player of his generation and one of the best players in the history of the NHL when he retires.

The only team that I feel matches LA in all three categories is Boston and even then I'd take LA's core.
 
I've been thinking about this. The Kings have elite talent at all three cornerstone positions.

#1 Center - Anze Kopitar
#1 Defenseman - Drew Doughty
Goalie - Jonathan Quick

I wouldn't trade either Doughty or Quick straight up for any other player in the NHL at their respective position and the only player I would consider trading Kopitar for would be Crosby; and that's really a compliment to Kopitar because Crosby will go down as the best player of his generation and one of the best players in the history of the NHL when he retires.

The only team that I feel matches LA in all three categories is Boston and even then I'd take LA's core.

The great thing is that Kopitar and Quick are just hitting their prime. Doughty is still a couple years away from hitting his.
 
Not too many teams can say they have a franchise forward, d-man and goalie. Is there any team besides the Kings that can say they have that?

I can't think of a team that has a player of that caliber at all three positions, though I am sure there are those that would have argument with that. I'd bet Montreal fans think they do. Hard to say. At the very least, Dean built one hell of a hockey club regardless of fan rankings :P
 
The great thing is that Kopitar and Quick are just hitting their prime. Doughty is still a couple years away from hitting his.

Doughty is his prime is a scary thought.

I can't think of a team that has a player of that caliber at all three positions, though I am sure there are those that would have argument with that. I'd bet Montreal fans think they do. Hard to say. At the very least, Dean built one hell of a hockey club regardless of fan rankings :P

Montreal has some real good talent, but I'd wait a couple years. I'm a big fan of Price.
 
Closest thing is Rangers. And they aren't close.

But on the opposite note, our other core pieces, no one can compete with that either, not even Chicago. That's why unlike many Kings fans here, I feel if both teams are healthy (unlike LA last year) we should beat Chicago and it shouldn't take 7 games either.
 
Bergeron, Chara, and Rask is pretty close.
That's true, and in quality on the ice I think it's very close. The reason I wouldn't trade their guys for ours, though, is that Chara is 37. I'm going to go ahead and invoke the golden rule of HF: younger=better. So sure, Chara's still an outstanding player, but for how much longer? The guy's practically on social security.
 
That's true, and in quality on the ice I think it's very close. The reason I wouldn't trade their guys for ours, though, is that Chara is 37. I'm going to go ahead and invoke the golden rule of HF: younger=better. So sure, Chara's still an outstanding player, but for how much longer? The guy's practically on social security.

No way would I trade our three for theirs. Ever. Just stating the comparison could be made.
 

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