Stringer Bell
Registered User
- Dec 16, 2009
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Knies vs Amirov vs Robertson
- Thread starter Dion TheFluff
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3 tremendous prospects on the Left side. All of them have top 6 potential. I really think Rodion Amirov is the most complete and talented of the 3 players. He gets the least amount of love purely based on the lack of news that surrounds him. But from a pure skill and intelligence standpoint, I think he presents the highest upside at this point IMO.
It's hard not to absolutely love Knies at this point, and I do see a day where he becomes our undisputed #1 prospect. He legit has it all. If he can improve his first stride just a bit to be a bit more explosive he could really become an elite prospect.
As for Robby, his development has not been able to progress in the way we were hoping after his historic D+1 year. But that is not his fault 1 bit. 2 fluky and serious leg injuries in back to back years have slightly derailed his development. But I would not count this kid out at all. He is as determined a prospect I have ever seen in our system. He is an absolute natural goal scorer, but he still needs to find a way to play a more quiet brand of hockey at the pro level. Far too often you see Nick trying to do it all himself like he would in junior. It's just not going to work consistently at the pro level. I think the minute he does that, he will start finding a lot more soft areas of the ice and he will punish the opposition with that Matthews like release. It's a shame, he looked considerably more strong on his skates at Dev camp and pre-season, but the recent injury may have set that progress back a bit. Time will tell. Ultimately, he is going to be in the NHL sooner rather than later, and if that offense he showed in junior even translates at 1/3rd of the potency we have a gem on our hands. It's hard to keep drawing back to his D+1 season, but it truly was historic, and when assessing Nick as a prospect it cannot be overlooked. Nick had the 7th best Goals/game season on record in the OHL. All of the players ahead of him on that list registered their historic seasons in 80's/early 90's. Additionally, since 1990, only Eric Lindros, John Tavares, John Tavares again, and Patrick Kane have scored over a goal per game in the OHL while 18 years of age or younger. Nick scored 1.2G/Game. It was truly a special season. I really think Nick has the head to adapt his game to translate more effectively to the pro style, and when he does, my god this kid could hurt the opposition.
all n all, 3 players to be extremely excited about. Arguably all 3 of them are blue chippers. Can't wait to see our current core with some of these kids in the lineup. we will be a powerhouse if they all pan out, which isn't entirely out of the realm of possibilities TBH
It's hard not to absolutely love Knies at this point, and I do see a day where he becomes our undisputed #1 prospect. He legit has it all. If he can improve his first stride just a bit to be a bit more explosive he could really become an elite prospect.
As for Robby, his development has not been able to progress in the way we were hoping after his historic D+1 year. But that is not his fault 1 bit. 2 fluky and serious leg injuries in back to back years have slightly derailed his development. But I would not count this kid out at all. He is as determined a prospect I have ever seen in our system. He is an absolute natural goal scorer, but he still needs to find a way to play a more quiet brand of hockey at the pro level. Far too often you see Nick trying to do it all himself like he would in junior. It's just not going to work consistently at the pro level. I think the minute he does that, he will start finding a lot more soft areas of the ice and he will punish the opposition with that Matthews like release. It's a shame, he looked considerably more strong on his skates at Dev camp and pre-season, but the recent injury may have set that progress back a bit. Time will tell. Ultimately, he is going to be in the NHL sooner rather than later, and if that offense he showed in junior even translates at 1/3rd of the potency we have a gem on our hands. It's hard to keep drawing back to his D+1 season, but it truly was historic, and when assessing Nick as a prospect it cannot be overlooked. Nick had the 7th best Goals/game season on record in the OHL. All of the players ahead of him on that list registered their historic seasons in 80's/early 90's. Additionally, since 1990, only Eric Lindros, John Tavares, John Tavares again, and Patrick Kane have scored over a goal per game in the OHL while 18 years of age or younger. Nick scored 1.2G/Game. It was truly a special season. I really think Nick has the head to adapt his game to translate more effectively to the pro style, and when he does, my god this kid could hurt the opposition.
all n all, 3 players to be extremely excited about. Arguably all 3 of them are blue chippers. Can't wait to see our current core with some of these kids in the lineup. we will be a powerhouse if they all pan out, which isn't entirely out of the realm of possibilities TBH
I'm not very high on Robertson. Just don't see him making an impact at the NHL level and have Knies and Amirov ahead of him.
- Sep 8, 2004
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if we deal one, i have to hope its Robertson ...the kid just doesnt have NHL strength.
Amirov has the most talent and can be a huge, huge steal, and Knies fits our team needs perfectly and is strong enough to be ready soonest, even though was the last drafted.
genuine question, what makes Amirov the most talented? Because out of the three I think his shot ranks number three among them. Robertson has an NHL level shot, Knies shot is a rocket as well. Amirovs isn’t quite like Knies, but I love his defensive play and how he hunts down pucks. Kind of reminds me a bit of how Mikheyev or Nylander always has an active stick. But I just don’t see the same level of offense that the other two bring.
I just think a lot of people are under estimating how good Robertson is.
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Voted Knies, but it’s a toss up. My thought process was if all three hit their upside, his skill package is the rarest across pro hockey.
Either way, I believe we have three blue chippers on our hands. And I love that they all offer a different package.
Good times!
Either way, I believe we have three blue chippers on our hands. And I love that they all offer a different package.
Good times!
Judas Tavares
S2S (Sundin2Sandin)
- Feb 9, 2007
- 10,188
- 3,632
Would these be fair comps for each?
Knies - more well-rounded JVR but less of a scorer
Amirov - Nylander
Robertson - Cammalleri
If not, who are their best comps?
Knies - more well-rounded JVR but less of a scorer
Amirov - Nylander
Robertson - Cammalleri
If not, who are their best comps?
WTFMAN99
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
- 34,652
- 12,838
Honestly, you probably did a pretty good job with this.
Stylistically Knies is really hard to nail down, I can see some elements from a lot of guys. Forsberg is another guy but maybe a bit less refined defensively than Forsberg was at the same age.
Oscar Peterson
Registered User
- Jun 27, 2015
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- 1,378
Amirov's got a great shot, he's very new age in that he often goes for the really quick release snap shot and it can be incredibly accurate too, watch how often he scores in the shootout / penalty shot just beating the goalie clean with his snapper. Robertson has probably the best shot of the three because he can one time it really well too, but those two are both quite clearly ahead of Knies in that regard for me. I rate Amirov higher than Robertson offensively because for one, his skating mechanics are simply elite whereas Robertson is much more of a start stop skater. And in the pro games I've seen of Robertson, his timing can be quite off, it doesn't seem like him and his linemates are ever in sync. I still like Robertson, I think all three are close as prospects and at this point I'm not ready to go out on a limb and say definitely this guy will be better, but based on what I've seen, I like Amirov > Knies > Robertson
Bluelines
Python FTW!
- Nov 17, 2013
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When Robertson came up he looked, fast, aggressive, read the play well, got hurt, came back and looked like he was a step and a half behind the play. Simply put he couldn't keep up with the pace of the game. Speaking from experience, he looked like he was playing with a concussion. Odd thing was his injury had nothing to do with his head. Strange thing that development curve is, he looked like a legit NHLer and now based on his last 2 stints with the Leafs I don't know if he will ever make the team as a regular.
Warden of the North
Ned Stark's head
I like Knies potential more, but Robertson is this far the better prospect.
I don't have any idea what Amirov is up to
I don't have any idea what Amirov is up to
Anthrax442
Registered User
Amirov I think has the best shot, it is sneaky good. He beats pro goalies clean often.
Robertson has a good shot, but I think it is overrated cause he had such high volumes of shots, but he has looked less impressive shooting at the pro level.
I think Knies is still #3 for shooting though.
Amirov has the best skills, I think the other two just have a more noticeable skill (work ethic and physicality)
Eternal Leaf
Registered User
Robertson easily has the best shot of the three. Both the wrister and slap shot are absolute rockets.
exactly, plus the guy also dominated the OHL. People love to act like the CHL is not a good berometer or means nothing. Yet most of the best players in the league dominated CHL. Being a good CHL player often is a good indicator of future NHL success, not always but in a lot of cases
Bluelines
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Plenty of players who dominate the CHL but never played more than a handful of games in the pro's. Being successful in the minors means nothing in terms of pro success. Remember Rico Fata? No? He was drafted 6th over all. Jason Bonsignore? Drafted 4th overall. Alexandre Daigle? Drafted 1st overall. You got a league of young men with varying degrees of physical and mental development, that plays a huge factor in their success at minor league levels.
Go down this list of CHL players who were drafted and had good/great minor careers but never made it in the pros. 2007 NHL Entry Draft | Hockey-Reference.com
What you do in the minors will get you a good draft position and possibly a pro contract. Besides that IMO your minor league performance means not a lot.
I said, not in all cases. But look at a majority of the top tier players in the NHL, even the ones breaking out now. Most dominated CHL or NCAA or even the USHL before coming in. Of course there is going to be a lot of great CHL players that don't make it. It's just the reality of it. But lets not act like it's not a good indicator. Most of the elite CHL guys don't even spend a lot of time in the AHL, a lot of them make it directly to the NHL. I'm specifically talking about guys that are putting up crazy numbers at 16/17/18 in the CHL. Not overagers dominating.
Robertson had 55 goals and 86 points as an 18 year old with a late birthday in the OHL while also being "undersized". That's pretty impressive and then you look at his small AHL sample size. 18 points in 23 games which is also pretty good. He's going to be a good player. No one should be writing him off.
Maplebeasts
I See Demons!!!!!
I took Amirov but people are sleeping on Robertson big time. Was he a top 6er with the Leafs in either of his stints? No. But he was also still physically immature. He's been great with the Marlies when he's played and has a lot going for him in his game. I don't see how a guy with his hands, shot and motor doesn't turn into something good at the NHL level. He'll figure things out.
Bluelines
Python FTW!
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Take that undersized comment and apply it to the current crop of NHLers, how many are great in the NHL? Gaudreau, Manigapane, Panarin, Kucherov, I'm having a hard time thinking of 20 players off the top of my head in the great category that are Robertson's size. You have what around 1000 players play in the NHL every year? You might have half of a percentage point that are Robertson's size that are good top 6 point producers.
Robertsons size is not an advantage for him. He looks like the moment is bigger than him. He's small, injury prone and so far he has not shown he can keep up to the pace in the NHL. All the 55 goals in the OHL wont help him be less injury prone or ready for the NHL's pace. I think his brother is doing pretty good in Dallas so maybe we can hope one day Robertson develops into a NHLer
I’ll help you
Panerin
Kucherov
Brad Marchand
Conor Garland
Jaden Schwartz
Alex Kerfoot
Granlund
Jesper Bratt
Vincent Trocheck
Jack Hughes
Cam Atkinson
Johnny Gaudreau
Patrick Kane
Alex Debrincat
Mats Zuccarello
Jonathan Marchessault
Brayden Point
Brendan Gallagher
Sebastian Aho
Clayton Keller
Tyler Johnson
Travis Konecny
Yanni Gourde
Max Domi
Conor Sheary
Kailer Yamamoto
Kevin Fiala
Viktor Arvidsson
Andreas Johnsson
JG Pageau
and that’s just forwards. Lots of smaller players who have made it and have had successful careers and those are just off the top of my head. Size really isn’t a factor these days. Skill is the main factor. He’s already played NHL games and looked fine
acrobaticgoalie
Registered User
- Jun 18, 2014
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Exactly. Having height has certain advantages but so does being smaller. Sometimes smaller guys are impossible to hit because they are so shifty. I've heard players say before that smaller guys can be harder to knock over because of lower center of gravity and are usually thicker. Look at a guy like Marty St.louis. The guy had legs like a Redwood. Crosby is another example of someone who is hard to knock off the puck.
acrobaticgoalie
Registered User
- Jun 18, 2014
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Ohh and also add Kaprizov to this list who is 5'10 and is on pace for over 100 pts this year
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
MAM1 : Michael Auston Mitch
Vs
MAM2: Matthew Auston Mitch
RAM line?
Rodion Auston Mitch
ohh man.....decisions! decisions! decisions!
Vs
MAM2: Matthew Auston Mitch
RAM line?
Rodion Auston Mitch
ohh man.....decisions! decisions! decisions!
completely forgot about him too, but that’s another great one and even Suzuki and Caufield
I disagree.
Nick scored at a historic pace in his 18 year old year in the OHL. You cannot do that with having anything overrated about your game. If you watch the majority of his goals that year, he is beating these tendy's clean from the dots our higher. His shot is an absolute joke. His ability to place the puck with precision accuracy and velocity is elite.
I think there is a massive amount of recency bias directed towards Nick based on his lack of forward momentum after that D+1 season. He had such a seismic impact that year that I believe the entire fanbase just expected that level of maturation year over year. However injuries have gotten in the way of that.
He definitely has gaps in his game at the present time, but his shot is no where near one of them IMO. Like I said in my last post, since 1990, only Eric Lindros, John Tavares, John Tavares again, and Patrick Kane have scored over a goal per game in the OHL while 18 years of age or younger. Nick scored 1.2G/Game. That is about as elite of company as you can keep. We are not talking about some statistical anomaly or scrubbing the data to work into a Leaf Bias. That's about as rudimentary as statistics go, Goals/game. It's an elite release.
The one thing he will really need to work on as he transitions to the pro game is finding space to get that shot off. It likely means being a quieter player in the offensive zone and/or utilizing the other 4 guys on the ice more. Almost be invisible at times. You ever notice how all the good goal scorers just seem to be in the right place at the right time, all the time? Look at Matthews, so many times when he scores you wonder how the hell they leave a guy like him all alone. That's what elite scorers do, and it's not by mistake. It's about drifting away from the puck at times, and finding open ice. Not always about digging pucks out, circling the dot and rippin it top cheese. There's just not enough time and space to do that with consistency at the pro level. It's a balance that Nick will need to find. But I genuinely think he will, and when he does he could be scary dangerous IMO.
would not sleep on him just yet.
