Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Kudo Shinichi]

Funny how the discourse is different when you speak about other players. Dach has showed repeatedly that he is not a top 6 player on an NHL contending team. Continuing to believe that it will magically happen is laughable especially when he has showed no signs of getting better.

Even if he were to never become a top 6 player, who the heck wouldn't want a skilled 6'4 220 lbs center?

 

[Habby4Life]

Even if he were to never become a top 6 player, who the heck wouldn't want a skilled 6'4 220 lbs center?

Except he is a shitty center. Can’t win a faceoff, horrible in his own zone, and is a line killer.

 

[ryan callahan]

Even if he were to never become a top 6 player, who the heck wouldn't want a skilled 6'4 220 lbs center?

If he doesn't accept his role then there's no use. Doesn't win faceoffs, doesn't PK and plays physical rarely.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

If he doesn't accept his role then there's no use.

Who said he wouldnt accept a bottom 6 role if we have 6 better forwards?

 

[BozoTheClown]

Even if he were to never become a top 6 player, who the heck wouldn't want a skilled 6'4 220 lbs center?

His career FOW% is 35.7, so unless he puts the effort and dedication to become better, he won’t be a center with those face off numbers and poor and lazy defensive play.

 

[Andrei79]

Lol come on man they aren't even comparable. In the sample size you're using Svech was a 2nd liner not scoring many goals. Dach doesn't even look like an NHLer. In 23 games Svech went to becoming a top line forward with his 23 points while Dach still stinks. Some people are doing carthweels because he wasn't a minus for the first time and hit a couple of guys which is considered a good game for some reason. It's hard to see how one of two actual offensive threats on the Canes in those 23 games is leeching assists off his linemates. Admittedly I didn't watch him for all 23 games but it just doesn't add up. Maybe for a very brief stint which to your own standards should be extremely hypocritical since it's less than what you're allowing for Dach. I did however watch Dach who was leeching off of Suzuki and Caufield in his successful season at a 53 point pace.

Because you mentioned Monahan for some reason. Hertl had the same injury as Dach.

But as I said, with Caufield he was still doing other things. Yeah he wasn't scoring goals which was annoying, but his compete, defensive game, and playmaking were a million times stronger than Dach's so far this season. Caufield going from a 1st liner to looking like a 2nd liner is nowhere near the same as Dach going from a 2nd liner to a healthy scratch-caliber player.

I mentioned Monahan as another example of a player who looked terrible after injuries. We don't know what Dach is nursing by the way, he was head shotted a few times early in the year, so it doesn't matter if Monahan admitted much later that he was nursing something. I'm also not saying that every player will struggle the same. I'm saying the injury should be looked at as the most likely reason for his game right now, rather than laziness. He looks more like someone who's skating still isn't at its usual level and who's confidence is shot. Svechnikov looked terrible up to the same time. Just 1 goal as a goal scorer. Even Canes fans were saying he looked like he was doing nothing offensively. He turned it up later in December. I don't expect Dach to do that as he's looking worst and his confidence is down the drain, but it's crazy that people are brushing off an injury like it couldn't possibly be the main reason for his struggles. His skating is clearly off as a player who's game is skating with the puck.

 

[Gally11]

They need to sit him a game or two and do whatever they did with Slaf last year. One voice and work on small details of the game one element at a time and layer in more and then layer in more again. Take him off special teams and just make him work through it with lower ice time to make every shift count. Just get back to basics build the confidence and timing up again, not like we need to win out here anyway lol

 

[Canadienna]

He just shut down his Instagram comments because people were ripping him non stop.

Maybe it'll be a good thing and he can tune out some of the noise.

Personally, I think the fanbase is being a little unfair to him considering he's not making big money and coming off such a long absence.

 

[teamfirst]

Why would any professionel athlete would want any kind of social interaction with fans is beyond me

 

[the valiant effort]

I hope the same people that came to Rotenberg’s defense against Habs fans on social media will step up for Dach, too

 

[teamfirst]

Why would any professionel athlete would want any kind of social interaction with fans is beyond me

Should have add...... why would any ''supposevely'' fans would take the time to go on an athletes account to bash on him is beyond me even more, but i guess it's beceause i'm too old to understand that way of thinking.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

He just shut down his Instagram comments because people were ripping him non stop.

Maybe it'll be a good thing and he can tune out some of the noise.

Personally, I think the fanbase is being a little unfair to him considering he's not making big money and coming off such a long absence.

Imagine going on instragram and thinking people will say '' keep it up ''

Instragram is like twitter but 10x worse and unfiltered

 

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

He just shut down his Instagram comments because people were ripping him non stop.

Maybe it'll be a good thing and he can tune out some of the noise.

Personally, I think the fanbase is being a little unfair to him considering he's not making big money and coming off such a long absence.

Good he needs a kick in the ass. If he's not ready to play this season he should just stay home and recover. Either you play hard like a man or if you're incapable right now then just don't play.

Starting to feel like we wasted 13th overall in 2022. There's a couple real nice players we could have taken for the rebuild.

 

[jrom]

He's at the bottom of his game right now but the expectations people had on him were not realistic (top 6C "in the mix"). He was just starting to play well the season before his injury, had major surgery, lost a year, etc.

He should be off PP1 when Laine comes back but beyond that he needs time and patience. Not saying he's gonna be a top6 C but he's capable of playing way better then right now.

 

[HabsAddict]

First...No athlete should have a public account. Too man6 stupid people out there.

Second...why on earth does anyone want to make it personal.

 

[McGees]

"HEY I WATCH A GROUP OF RANDOM MEN THAT WEAR THE SAME COLOR CLOTHING PUT A RUBBER BRICK IN A NET AND YOU ARE NOT PUTTING THE RUBBER BRICK IN THE NET FOR THE GROUP OF GROWN MEN WHOSE COLOR I CHEER FOR SO YOU ARE A STUPID PIECE OF TRASH"

-internet fans

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

That you can't even say he played well before the injury means there's nothing to argue, it's just a ridiculous POV that isn't worth anyone's time. If you also find that my 10 sentence responses are novels, then you have issues beyond just that ridiculous post. I don't mind debating with you, but not even admitting he played well is disingenuous.

Add him to your IL like I did long ago

 

[Dach Vader]

I thought he played well in the parts I saw today. He had a couple of good opportunities. He did get a penalty at a crucial moment, but it seemed more unlucky than "lazy".

Still could be a valuable piece for us in the long run. Anderson and Gallagher didn't perform well last year, but they have been solid this season, I think Dach will shake of the rust eventually.

Hate to hear about fans harassing a player on Instagram or whatever. Not a good look.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

One basic step is at least drop him from the top PP unit. Give him second unit time and 5 on 5. At this point it isnt even fair to his teammates that gets catered this time just to stand around making low percentage plays

Its up to him to figure this out

 

[ReHabs]

Caufield was absolutely criticised of dogging it, I don't know what you're talking about there.

If you're going to refer to random one-off comments then every player get criticised and it's irrelevant to bring it up here and now. If you want to refer to last season the player who got the most criticism for his effort was Josh Anderson -- and he deserved it. Caufield had more goodwill among the fans and he smashed his personal point ceiling despite shooting an abysmal 8.9%.

I don't glaze over anything. The seasons where Dach was criticized were the seasons where he was coming back from injury. The Blackhawks also let go of Strome, they had new management and decided to tank that year. When I'm comparing Dach to Monahan and Caufield, I'm giving comparisons to other players who struggled after injury, it's a really simple notion that somehow escapes some every year. If he's still at the same point next year, then the issue isn't the injury, but like Caufield, there's a clear reason why he might be struggling.

You glaze over Dach whole career when you compare him to Monahan. They're nothing alike and their trades were nothing alike. Dach failed big time in his third year with CHI and they cut him loose because they did not like what they saw. He wasn't a risk to their plan to tank, he was just a risk and they got rather good value for a player they felt was trending badly.

The purported reason why Dach is struggling doesn't change the fact that he is struggling. Struggling is a charitable term to describe his effort levels, imo.

The fact is nobody wants to get rid of Dach just because, but how he's playing makes it very difficult to stomach pencilling him in a lineup.

Hughes and MSL have given him a lot of ink and he's been writing his own story. If you insist on calling this whole season a mulligan (how many players get such a luxury -- 0.1% of them?) that's fine and your opinion of course. I don't think it's particularly fair or conducive to a good, competitive team culture.

Even if he were to never become a top 6 player, who the heck wouldn't want a skilled 6'4 220 lbs center?

You're right but that's not what we see from Dach today or at any point of his NHL career. If he's going to be an unreliable, low-effort, and injury prone player he simply won't be in the NHL for long. No self-respecting team wants this play as their top6 C. So what is he if he's not a top6 C? He's pretty bad defensively, he can't win faceoffs... his best stint with the Habs was when he rode shotgun next to a red hot Suzuki.

 

[Miller Time]

If you're going to refer to random one-off comments then every player get criticised and it's irrelevant to bring it up here and now. If you want to refer to last season the player who got the most criticism for his effort was Josh Anderson -- and he deserved it. Caufield had more goodwill among the fans and he smashed his personal point ceiling despite shooting an abysmal 8.9%.

You glaze over Dach whole career when you compare him to Monahan. They're nothing alike and their trades were nothing alike. Dach failed big time in his third year with CHI and they cut him loose because they did not like what they saw. He wasn't a risk to their plan to tank, he was just a risk and they got rather good value for a player they felt was trending badly.

The purported reason why Dach is struggling doesn't change the fact that he is struggling. Struggling is a charitable term to describe his effort levels, imo.

The fact is nobody wants to get rid of Dach just because, but how he's playing makes it very difficult to stomach pencilling him in a lineup.

Hughes and MSL have given him a lot of ink and he's been writing his own story. If you insist on calling this whole season a mulligan (how many players get such a luxury -- 0.1% of them?) that's fine and your opinion of course. I don't think it's particularly fair or conducive to a good, competitive team culture.


You're right but that's not what we see from Dach today or at any point of his NHL career. If he's going to be an unreliable, low-effort, and injury prone player he simply won't be in the NHL for long. No self-respecting team wants this play as their top6 C. So what is he if he's not a top6 C? He's pretty bad defensively, he can't win faceoffs... his best stint with the Habs was when he rode shotgun next to a red hot Suzuki.

Your comments about his effort level suggest a very poor understanding, or assessment, of what effort is in the context of elite sport.

Your whole take is built off of a very poor assessment. Might want to go back to the drawing board.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

What;s annoying about these discussions is the revisionist history. Folks seeing how Dach is playing now and pretending that this is how he played in 2022, which is just plain false. None of the descriptors of current Dach were used two years ago. Hell they weren't even used in THIS pre-season. So to say that he was always this way is pure narrative convenience.

I am personally shocked at how different Dach 2024 looks from Dach 2022. Two completely different players. In 2022 he was winning board battles, threading needles, carrying the puck from end-to-end, gaining the o-zone with ease.

Now he can't even hold the puck for more than a second without losing it or making a bad play. Something is off.

I said from the beginning that I liked the approach Hughes took, but Dach wasn’t the horse I would have bet on. However, he was looking like a good bet 2 years ago. I’m still in the “give him more time” camp, but at some point we may be faced with the reality that 2022 Dach may never return. We aren’t there yet though.