Player Discussion Kirby Dach (Part 3): TabarDach Edition!

[The Great Weal]

It doesn't matter what people here thought at the time. So many here are claiming Chicago had some magical insight into the future of Dach and that is why they traded him, where was this insight for Hagel?

If they have so much great flexibility why are they so trash? They have been terrible for like 8 years now.

The fact is the revisionist bullshit is being pulled up by some to kick Dach while he's down, it's nothing new and it's been going on all season.

You're definitely not wrong about the revisionism comment, however, I feel like it needs to be pointed out how the Hawks "purposely traded away Dach to win Bedard" is also bullshit. I thought people were joking about this comment but it doesn't seem like it.

So Chicago looked into their crystal ball and knew exactly what position they needed to be in to win the Bedard lottery? Also it's not like Dach was a superstar singlehandedly keeping them afloat, he had 26 points in 70 games primarily playing next to Kane and Debrincat. It seems obvious that they wanted to take the chance of recouping a valuable asset in exchange for a 3rd overall pick who's been struggling. Something we should have done with KK if it wasn't for MB and his hard-on for keeping young players until they lose all value.

I guess you could say this is revisionist as well, but I don't see how you evaluate how GMs/scouts perform without some revisionism.

You are very correct in that pretending that the Hawks knew full well Dach was damaged goods at the time is pure nonsense.

 

[ReHabs]

You're definitely not wrong about the revisionism comment, however, I feel like it needs to be pointed out how the Hawks "purposely traded away Dach to win Bedard" is also bullshit. I thought people were joking about this comment but it doesn't seem like it.

So Chicago looked into their crystal ball and knew exactly what position they needed to be in to win the Bedard lottery? Also it's not like Dach was a superstar singlehandedly keeping them afloat, he had 26 points in 70 games primarily playing next to Kane and Debrincat. It seems obvious that they wanted to take the chance of recouping a valuable asset in exchange for a 3rd overall pick who's been struggling. Something we should have done with KK if it wasn't for MB and his hard-on for keeping young players until they lose all value.

I guess you could say this is revisionist as well, but I don't see how you evaluate how GMs/scouts perform without some revisionism.

You are very correct in that pretending that the Hawks knew full well Dach was damaged goods at the time is pure nonsense.

Dach was traded away because CHI didn’t value his upside more than the 13OA pick (ie a single magic bean).

Dach’s third year in Chicago was terrible and the organization was not happy with his attitude and effort. And guess what, his third year with the Habs looks a lot like similar.

 

[Theodore450]

It doesn't matter what people here thought at the time. So many here are claiming Chicago had some magical insight into the future of Dach and that is why they traded him, where was this insight for Hagel?

If they have so much great flexibility why are they so trash? They have been terrible for like 8 years now.

The fact is the revisionist bullshit is being pulled up by some to kick Dach while he's down, it's nothing new and it's been going on all season.

Of course it matters..... Dach was a 21 year old top pick on a rebuilding team. hes shown zero improvement wot warrant top 6 ice time. The gm saw this and shipped him before his value tanked as it now has proven to be the case.

Hagel was a depth player working his way up who did not fit the age gap and got traded for more than what he was though to be normally worth. Similar to Lehkonen, who didnt fit the gap Just like the Habs, Chicago made a mistake with that. and traded a good player for spare value parts.

The only one kicking Dach down is himself. Get over his draft position and look at the player. \
Hes cheeks

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Of course it matters..... Dach was a 21 year old top pick on a rebuilding team. hes shown zero improvement wot warrant top 6 ice time. The gm saw this and shipped him before his value tanked as it now has proven to be the case.

Hagel was a depth player working his way up who did not fit the age gap and got traded for more than what he was though to be normally worth. Similar to Lehkonen, who didnt fit the gap Just like the Habs, Chicago made a mistake with that. and traded a good player for spare value parts.

The only one kicking Dach down is himself. Get over his draft position and look at the player. \
Hes cheeks

It sounds like you should get over his draft position, you seen obsessed with the expectations you've put on him.

You still haven't answered the question, Chicago some how just magically knew Dach would bust yet didn't see Hagel turning into a ppg forward? Did they turn off their magic all seeing crystal for that trade? I sure bet Bedard wishes he had Hagel on that team to play with and not a bunch of plugs.

The reality is Chicago went scorched earth, not that Dach was some bust waiting to happen.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

Only way this is true is if that knee continues to be an issue. Otherwise he's fine in that role.

Hopefully this latest thing is nothing serious.

Either way though, I would look for extra help. We need more depth going forward.

Guy has no defensive value and is scoring at an average 3rd liner's pace.

No, he isn't fine in a 2nd line role, unless he takes a MASSIVE step up.

Most good teams have 2 centers that are easily better than Dach.

 

[ReHabs]

Guy has no defensive value and is scoring at an average 3rd liner's pace.

No, he isn't fine in a 2nd line role, unless he takes a MASSIVE step up.

Most good teams have 2 centers that are easily better than Dach.

It helps your argument to note that Dach isn't a centre and the best span in his otherwise crappy NHL career has been riding shotgun next to Suzuki-Caufield.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

It helps your argument to note that Dach isn't a centre and the best span in his otherwise crappy NHL career has been riding shotgun next to Suzuki-Caufield.

Also that lol

I don't mind him as a middle 6 winger (though there could be better options that are less injury prone and bring more value overall), but as a 2C, yikes.

 

[red devil]

 

[Guy Larose]

Marinaro says that first report he got from a source says out for the rest of the year, but like with Laine, that might change

 

[le_sean]

Marinaro says that first report he got from a source says out for the rest of the year, but like with Laine, that might change

If it is true, then he needs to find a new home this summer. He’ll never shake off the injured and inconsistent label. Two major injuries from plays that look like nothing.

 

[EveryDay]

Kirby Dach is again injured long term? Am I supposed to be surprised ?

If it is true, then he needs to find a new home this summer. He’ll never shake off the injured and inconsistent label. Two major injuries from plays that look like nothing.

If it's the case buy him out this summer.

 

[badfish]

Yes I'd say if they're forecasting an update in 24 hours it's pretty ominous sounding.

 

[ReHabs]

Acquiring other team's busts and near-busts seems to not be a high-upside activity.

Kenny Hughes take notes -- please!

If it's the case buy him out this summer.

What do you think is the upside of doing this? He only has a year left and is RFA after. Might as well keep him as a middle6 option to have him 'earn his next contract' -- no?

 

[Rapala]

Yes I'd say if they're forecasting an update in 24 hours it's pretty ominous sounding.

Yeah it's never good. There aren't too many good things that can hold up a diagnosis?
Swelling maybe...

 

[Rapala]

If it is true, then he needs to find a new home this summer. He’ll never shake off the injured and inconsistent label. Two major injuries from plays that look like nothing.

That would make three if you include the slight contact in that WJHC pre-tournament game that took out his wrist.
.

 

[Whitesnake]

yeah, well another one that won't pan out. Frankly, with Dach, it's his desire. Not sure he thinks he should be making a difference. Seems to me like quite a few guys like they have the talent..might as well play hockey then...

 

[overlords]

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

yeah, well another one that won't pan out. Frankly, with Dach, it's his desire. Not sure he thinks he should be making a difference. Seems to me like quite a few guys like they have the talent..might as well play hockey then...

There is NO way to know if it's desire or a fear of injury.

 

[Whitesnake]

There is NO way to know if it's desire or a fear of injury.

Scouting report even in juniors was talking about consistency and pushback and playing with more pace.

 

[ReHabs]

Scouting report even in juniors was talking about consistency and pushback and playing with more pace.

I think not many Habs fans read the CHI board after the Dach trade. None of this should be a surprise if you trusted what CHI fans had to say. They were NOT bitter to get a 13OA pick in exchange for him.

 

[BergevinBurner]

He looks destined for the 3rd line next year. There's 0 chance Hughes goes into next season with Dach as the 2nd best center on this team.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Done for the year. What a disaster.

 

[Ozmodiar]

He looks destined for the 3rd line next year. There's 0 chance Hughes goes into next season with Dach as the 2nd best center on this team.

This certainly seals what was already likely.

CC - Suze - Demi
Slaf - 2C - Laine
Newhook - Beck - Anderson
Heineman - Kapanen - Gally

He’ll have next season to prove he belongs at all.

 

[le_sean]

yeah, well another one that won't pan out. Frankly, with Dach, it's his desire. Not sure he thinks he should be making a difference. Seems to me like quite a few guys like they have the talent..might as well play hockey then...

First warning lights should have appeared when a 21 year old 3rd overall pick was made available by a rebuilding team. When the price isn’t that high, questions should be asked.

At least with Newhook you understand that a team that wants to win now might want assets to acquire more win-now players.

 

[Whitesnake]

I think not many Habs fans read the CHI board after the Dach trade. None of this should be a surprise if you trusted what CHI fans had to say. They were NOT bitter to get a 13OA pick in exchange for him.

There's a reason a team IN RECONSTRUCTION gives up a 6'4 C for a 13th overall pick. We took a chance. Lost. We took a chance with Newhook. Lost. We took a chance with Barron. Lost. These moves sets you back a couple of years to say the least. The only good move as far as reconstruction is concernend that Hughes played really well was the Monahan deals.