Kippers, Näslunds, Forsbergs?? sick payback

[Talentless Practise*]

Interesting thought just popped to my head (a first time for everything i guess).

The main argument for those who think players with minor injuries should retire from the Olys is that they are being paid millions by their respective teams and should therefore rest in order to be able to play for the push to the playoffs. Words used in the Forsberg discussion are "lack of loyalty" and disrespect for the Flyers if he chooses to go.

They are not paid for the playoffs, remember? Can you see where i'm going? By the same argument, would you think of it as lack of loyalty or disrespect for their teams should they not feel like playing in the playoffs?

Ofcourse they will not skip the playoffs but i'd like to hear Flames and Flyers fans POV on this matter.

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[Jazz]

Interesting thought just popped to my head (a first time for everything i guess).

The main argument for those who think players with minor injuries should retire from the Olys is that they are being paid millions by their respective teams and should therefore rest in order to be able to play for the push to the playoffs. Words used in the Forsberg discussion are "lack of loyalty" and disrespect for the Flyers if he chooses to go.

They are not paid for the playoffs, remember? Can you see where i'm going? By the same argument, would you think of it as lack of loyalty or disrespect for their teams should they not feel like playing in the playoffs?

Ofcourse they will not skip the playoffs but i'd like to hear Flames and Flyers fans POV on this matter.

I have made this point many times here...that arguement (which I put in bold above) is flawed.

The NHL has made a coporate decision to suspend it's season and participate in the Olympics. By doing so, they have stated that Olympic games are just as important as NHL games (for this season). The goal of participating in the Olympics is to showcase the game to an international audience, and thus making the best stars available for Turin was a priority for the NHL.

However, some archaic owners and GMs (notably Snider and Clarke in Philly) said otherwise. They are the vocal minority though.

With Kipper and Naslund, I suspect that there is some background politics involved with these 2. Kipper, for example, has shown a reluctance in the past for playing for the national team, and Swedish coach Gustavsson popped off in the local media saying that Naslund really hasn't done much for the national team anyways (this is before Naslund withdrew).

 

[Talentless Practise*]

Please note that i didn't comment the reasons these players retired, that topic is well covered in here and we certainly don't need another thread for that arguement. This thread is NOT that serious, just would like to hear some thoughts from those using the money-card.

 

[Phanuthier*]

They are not paid for the playoffs, remember? Can you see where i'm going? By the same argument, would you think of it as lack of loyalty or disrespect for their teams should they not feel like playing in the playoffs?

Ofcourse they will not skip the playoffs but i'd like to hear Flames and Flyers fans POV on this matter.

So in other words, it doesn't matter if you show up for the playoffs or not, because your not getting paid for that?

ok

 

[steafo]

I wasnt aware that these players were paid for the olympics either? I guess some of you have forgotten a little thing called pride and the desire to win

 

[Talentless Practise*]

So in other words, it doesn't matter if you show up for the playoffs or not, because your not getting paid for that?

ok

congrats, for the 9108th time the point goes flying over your head.

Let me try to spell it out for you in short words. If i recall correctly you have been one of the more vocal ones about not going to the Olys with a minor injury (pardon me if im wrong). Let's use Kipper as an example as you are a Flames fan.

In threads discussing this, you said that Kipper should not go because the Flames pay him millions to play for them and not Finland. The Flames don't pay him to play in the olys. They also don't pay him for playing in the playoffs. Do you think that he should rest the playoffs if his injury is not healed by that time? Oh God, he's risking re-aggravating his injury by playing in the playoffs even though the Flames pay him millions to play for them in the regular season 2006-2007.

 

[Phanuthier*]

I wasnt aware that these players were paid for the olympics either? I guess some of you have forgotten a little thing called pride and the desire to win

Personally, if I were them, I wouldn't care. What do you have to gain? The NHL is already the best league in the world. To win that is already winning the best. Pride? Yeah, after Finland dumped on Kiprusoff after he carried them on his back to the World Cup final. I doubt Kiprusoff had any national pride (or any of us do) for that matter. Desire to win? Well he does, at what he considers the top level of hockey.

 

[Phanuthier*]

In threads discussing this, you said that Kipper should not go because the Flames pay him millions to play for them and not Finland. The Flames don't pay him to play in the olys. They also don't pay him for playing in the playoffs. Do you think that he should rest the playoffs if his injury is not healed by that time? Oh God, he's risking re-aggravating his injury by playing in the playoffs even though the Flames pay him millions to play for them in the regular season 2006-2007.

The Flames are paying him to be a Calgary Flames goalie.

What don't you get about that?

 

[shawn_kemp*]

in what order would you place :

family

employer

country

???

 

[Talentless Practise*]

Please try to answer the bolded question on my previous post. That's all i ask.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Family

Friends

Career

Sleeping

Eating

Vacation

Watching TV at home

Country

Long walks on the beach

Dinner alone

Giving blood

Paying taxes

Making money for the IOC

 

[Phanuthier*]

Please try to answer the bolded question on my previous post. That's all i ask.

I think that has nothing to do with anything

 

[shawn_kemp*]

the question is : are you a PATRIOT or a MISSIONARY?

 

[Talentless Practise*]

I think that has nothing to do with anything

Well, as i'm the one who started this thread, we'll take my word for what is relevant in it don't you think?

But i guess it's not a surprise you are reluctant to answer it as it just annihilates your position in the arguement about to go to the olys or not.

 

[Phanuthier*]

the question is : are you a PATRIOT or a MISSIONARY?

I am me. I'm not a patriot. Ok, so I live in Canada right now. I doubt I'll be working in Canada.

If you really needed to know, I cheered for Team Russia at the WJC when they had more Flames players, and I cheered for Team Finland at the World Cup because they had 3 Flames (although it was almost the same since Team Canada had 2).

I align my support with ones that interest me, not just patriotism.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Well, as i'm the one who started this thread, we'll take my word for what is relevant in it don't you think?

But i guess it's not a surprise you are reluctant to answer it as it just annihilates your position in the arguement about to go to the olys or not.

So your question is, if they are missing the Olympics because they arn't getting paid for it, should they miss the playoffs because they arn't getting paid for it?

My answere was pretty straight forward. You do what your employer says.

 

[shawn_kemp*]

but do you understand that if not for the money, Kipper would have never played for Calgary? he would have stayed in Finland his whole career

 

[Phanuthier*]

but do you understand that if not for the money, Kipper would have never played for Calgary? he would have stayed in Finland his whole career

Yes, probably.

If it weren't for money, I probably wouldn't be working in Canada either.

What's your point?

 

[joshjull]

Interesting thought just popped to my head (a first time for everything i guess).

The main argument for those who think players with minor injuries should retire from the Olys is that they are being paid millions by their respective teams and should therefore rest in order to be able to play for the push to the playoffs. Words used in the Forsberg discussion are "lack of loyalty" and disrespect for the Flyers if he chooses to go.

They are not paid for the playoffs, remember? Can you see where i'm going? By the same argument, would you think of it as lack of loyalty or disrespect for their teams should they not feel like playing in the playoffs?

Ofcourse they will not skip the playoffs but i'd like to hear Flames and Flyers fans POV on this matter.

I understand your arguement but I think your comparing apples to oranges.The argument is that a player has to chose between the employer who is paying him millions or his country. You are implying that playing for that SAME team in the playoffs is the same is olympic participation because the player isn't paid during each. I'm not a Flyer fan or a Flames fan but a Sabres fan. I don't want Teppo + Lydman playing for Finland or Drury playing for USA because they are all nursing groin injuries. The are all key players for our team and would hate to lose any of them long term because of an Olympic injury.
The playoffs are part of a players obligation to their pro team regardless if they are paid. The lack of performance or a great performance in them can effect their earning potential. The Olympic participation is being done to placate the NHLPA which wanted this as a concession in the CBA, since they were clobbered everywhere else. The NHL execs after shuting down for a year didn't want to do it again while they are trying to reestablish the league.

 

[TheRedressor]

congrats, for the 9108th time the point goes flying over your head.

Let me try to spell it out for you in short words. If i recall correctly you have been one of the more vocal ones about not going to the Olys with a minor injury (pardon me if im wrong). Let's use Kipper as an example as you are a Flames fan.

In threads discussing this, you said that Kipper should not go because the Flames pay him millions to play for them and not Finland. The Flames don't pay him to play in the olys. They also don't pay him for playing in the playoffs. Do you think that he should rest the playoffs if his injury is not healed by that time? Oh God, he's risking re-aggravating his injury by playing in the playoffs even though the Flames pay him millions to play for them in the regular season 2006-2007.

Players get bonuses for winning the Stanley Cup if your gonna go with that thought process.

 

[InstantFunk]

I think you're making a tough comparison. Can you say with any certainty that if a player doesn't play during the playoffs (regardless of whether or not he's being paid) that he isn't jeapordizing his position (read: salary) with the organization? In the case of playing injured during the playoffs, the player is still playing for the benefit of the organization and will be rewarded financially for doing so. The risk of that player becoming more injured and losing time during the next regular seson is a risk that the organization will most often take because he is still contrubuting to the organization. In the case of the Olympics, the risk is not offset by any contribution to the organization.

 

[Phanuthier*]

You get it

I just wish Bonkers would

 

[Talentless Practise*]

Can you say with any certainty that if a player doesn't play during the playoffs (regardless of whether or not he's being paid) that he isn't jeapordizing his position (read: salary) with the organization?

Yes, i can say with absolute certainty that if a player would not play in the playoffs that his career in the NHL would be over after his contract ended.

But would playing in the Olympics jeopardize his position (read: salary) with the organization? No way, no how. This is what i'm trying to say. I'm only saying that this point about "respecting the employer" and retiring is a pointless one. I'm just sick of people trying to justify their homerism on this matter and can't see why theyre doing it in every thread concerning this. It's not like it isn't understandable, it's called favoring your favorite team.
The GM's and the teams want the players not to go because they have money and time invested in them. Fans want them not to go because they are homers, period.

Maybe this is too simple for someone like Phanuthier to understand, seeing he applauds people for understanding the point they have not.

 

[IcedTea]

They are not paid for the playoffs, remember?

Khabibulin might have something to say about that.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Yes, i can say with absolute certainty that if a player would not play in the playoffs that his career in the NHL would be over after his contract ended.

But would playing in the Olympics jeopardize his position (read: salary) with the organization? No way, no how. This is what i'm trying to say. I'm only saying that this point about "respecting the employer" and retiring is a pointless one. I'm just sick of people trying to justify their homerism on this matter and can't see why theyre doing it in every thread concerning this. It's not like it isn't understandable, it's called favoring your favorite team.
The GM's and the teams want the players not to go because they have money and time invested in them. Fans want them not to go because they are homers, period.

Maybe this is too simple for someone like Phanuthier to understand, seeing he applauds people for understanding the point they have not.

1) Players contracts are for an entire season, as long as that lasts.
2) Many players future contracts are based on how they perform in the play-off's.

I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think that there is the correlation you are trying to make.

The only problem I have with how this whole situation is going down is if the Flames applied pressure on Kipper for him not to attend the Olympics. If there is bad blood between Kipper & the Finnish nat'l team, then it's absolutely his call if he doesn't want to play. Same thing with Zubov & the Russian team. Kipper is playing the "injury" card because it's the only out that he has without coming accross like a selfish brat. It is ironic though that he's been healthy enough to start 24 of the last 25 Flames games, but again - it's his call if he wants to compete or not.