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GDT: Kings @ Leafs, Wednesday Oct, 16, 7:30 pm EST

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Leafs87 said:
He’s a very nothing player tbh. Not tough, good defensively or particularly offensive
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Well first of all, id take a no-event defenseman over Timmins...

More importantly, Liljegren has shown stretches of very good two-way play. He's also +42 in his three years with the Leafs which, while not a great stat, indicates he's overall done pretty good with the minutes he's been given.

I don't think he's a superstar, but I do think Keefe didn't do a great job developing him and there's still a quality, two-way, top 4 rhd there.

I think Keefe is a good coach, but one of his biggest issues has been developing young (non-superstar) talent. I think the only rookies he successfully integrated were Bunting (kinda?) and Knies.
 
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All Mod Cons said:
One thing that seems really good so far is Berube has seen what the fans have seen in only 2.5 games. Keefe would never mix things up.
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Almost had to do a double take when we had a new PP Unit being tried in practice.

Was just so delightful watching Keefe run the same PP unit over and over despite it looking hopelessly terrible for like half the season.
 
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IPS said:
Almost had to do a double take when we had a new PP Unit being tried in practice.

Was just so delightful watching Keefe run the same PP unit over and over despite it looking hopelessly terrible for like half the season.
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I think the more important thing is thst they're probably drilling in some new habits for the PP (including the entry). I don't think the issue was the players given we've seen that unit dominate for large stretches before the 2nd half of last year.

I think the system never changed so it was pretty obvious what to watch for and got easier to defend, especially when Marner or Matthews weren't scoring/setting up tap ins.
 
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Community said:
Well first of all, id take a no-event defenseman over Timmins...

More importantly, Liljegren has shown stretches of very good two-way play. He's also +42 in his three years with the Leafs which, while not a great stat, indicates he's overall done pretty good with the minutes he's been given.

I don't think he's a superstar, but I do think Keefe didn't do a great job developing him and there's still a quality, two-way, top 4 rhd there.

I think Keefe is a good coach, but one of his biggest issues has been developing young (non-superstar) talent. I think the only rookies he successfully integrated were Bunting (kinda?) and Knies.
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We haven’t exactly thrown a lot of quality prospects Keefes way. Lil is okay, but honestly on a mediocre D core like this he’s hard to shelter. He didn’t work out with any partner really last season. Timmins isn’t great either don’t get me wrong, but he’s the placeholder until Jani is ready to go
 
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Leafs87 said:
We haven’t exactly thrown a lot of quality prospects Keefes way. Lil is okay, but honestly on a mediocre D core like this he’s hard to shelter. He didn’t work out with any partner really last season. Timmins isn’t great either don’t get me wrong, but he’s the placeholder until Jani is ready to go
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He was good with McCabe and Brodie what are you talking about?

Leafs87 said:
We haven’t exactly thrown a lot of quality prospects Keefes way. Lil is okay, but honestly on a mediocre D core like this he’s hard to shelter. He didn’t work out with any partner really last season. Timmins isn’t great either don’t get me wrong, but he’s the placeholder until Jani is ready to go
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Hakanpaa is a pipe dream the guy won’t be able to play consistently
 
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Leafs87 said:
We haven’t exactly thrown a lot of quality prospects Keefes way. Lil is okay, but honestly on a mediocre D core like this he’s hard to shelter. He didn’t work out with any partner really last season. Timmins isn’t great either don’t get me wrong, but he’s the placeholder until Jani is ready to go
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No A level prospects, but we went through a bunch of promising B prospects that never seemed to reach the level needed to supplement our core. You can argue that we traded young promising prospects away in some of our trades (Muzzin trade in particular), but I do think we didn't do great in terms of developing the following young players in Keefe's tenure:

Dermott, Sandin, Liljegren, Robertson, Holmberg, Barabonov, Johnsson, Kapanen, and Moore.

Most teams have a number of players that surprise and become solid NHLers during a 5 year span. I don't think we have any outside of Knies who really hasn't had too much time to develop with the Leafs yet (last year he also played on the 4th line at times which probably isn't a great development move)

I'll defend Keefe and Dubas more than the average poster as I think, despite some warts and growing pains, they're both above average coach/GM that were ultimately let down by our core forwards lackluster playoff production. However, this was my biggest issue during Keefe's tenure... we could've really used some secondary talent that turned out better than expected (see Hyman; pre-Keefe for recent example).
 
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IPS said:
Almost had to do a double take when we had a new PP Unit being tried in practice.

Was just so delightful watching Keefe run the same PP unit over and over despite it looking hopelessly terrible for like half the season.
Click to expand...
That is one thing I've enjoyed seeing.

Berube so far seems like a guy who's going to throw you out on the ice on merit.

It also makes me wonder why a guy was running the powerplay and it never changed while Keefe was coaching? Under Berube that doesn't seem to be the case.

Maybe someone here has some insight on that ... with higher end coaching ... but why have a pp or pk coach and you don't let them do their thing?

or is it that the powerplay coach last year just really sucked?
DarkKnight said:
Kings gave up 8 to the Sens tonight.
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Pretty crazy. So leafs might be able to score 2 or 3 if they're lucky lol.

Seriously though I'm liking there game this year. If Sens can get 8 though... you'd hope Leafs could get a few minimum.
 
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Leafs87 said:
He’s a very nothing player tbh. Not tough, good defensively or particularly offensive
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Better PPG last year than OEL...

Not saying he is better than OEL, I just don't understand why people think Liljegren has no skill.

All Mod Cons said:
One thing that seems really good so far is Berube has seen what the fans have seen in only 2.5 games. Keefe would never mix things up.
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Yep, Berube switched up Nylander at C very quickly.
 
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Why are we screwing with a winning defense?

I don't particularly like Timmins or Lilly but with Timmins they are winning.

With Timmins they have given up 5 goals in 3 games.

With Timmins they have given up 2 5 on 5 goals.

Why are we screwing with a winning defense?

Again don't like Timmins but I also don't like messing with a winning lineup

notbias said:
Better PPG last year than OEL...

Not saying he is better than OEL, I just don't understand why people think Liljegren has no skill.



Yep, Berube switched up Nylander at C very quickly.
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Because he hasn't gotten noticeably better in about 4 years
 
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We tend to have an early season stinker against the Kings every year, and then proceed to pummel them in the rematch. Let's see if it's any different this time, it is also my birthday on that day so would be nice to see a win.

Last year my buddy surprised me with tickets on my bday and unfortunately we watched them take an L against Chicago while their no name goalie had the game of his life.
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
Why are we screwing with a winning defense?

I don't particularly like Timmins or Lilly but with Timmins they are winning.

With Timmins they have given up 5 goals in 3 games.

With Timmins they have given up 2 5 on 5 goals.

Why are we screwing with a winning defense?

Again don't like Timmins but I also don't like messing with a winning lineup



Because he hasn't gotten noticeably better in about 4 years
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While our team defensive play has been good, our defensive record has been good moreso because of our goalies than Timmins.

It's very early season so advanced stats aren't great, but it's kinda telling that despite limited minutes in a sheltered role, he is the only defenseman that is being outscored on at even strength so far this year.

Moreso, the eye test shows that he hasn't been good in any zone and hasn't been good on the 2nd unit PK.

"Not changing a winning lineup" is a silly argument when one or more players aren't playing that well.
 
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