Kevyn Adams GM thread

[Jim Bob]

Well, he turned to the NHL for advice, since he himself may not have understood and did not know who to hire. If I'm not mistaken, Bean was already an experienced GM? He hired him once. So why not do the same, especially when you've already hired three inexperienced GMs and it didn't work. Although an experienced GM is also not a guarantee of success, but this has its advantages, but even some GM from an NHL team can become a good GM, but here you need to choose the right person, which is also not easy.

Brandon Beane had never been an NFL GM before getting the job in Buffalo because he worked with McDermott in Carolina and he was "McD's guy."

As an executive:
Carolina Panthers (1998–2007) Personnel Carolina Panthers (2008–2014) Director of football operations Carolina Panthers (2015–2016) Assistant general manager Buffalo Bills (2017–present) General manager

 

[TehDoak]

Brandon Beane had never been an NFL GM before getting the job in Buffalo because he worked with McDermott in Carolina and he was "McD's guy."

As an executive:
Carolina Panthers (1998–2007) Personnel Carolina Panthers (2008–2014) Director of football operations Carolina Panthers (2015–2016) Assistant general manager Buffalo Bills (2017–present) General manager

Beane is the GM equivalent of winning one of those "cash for life" scratch offs.

Every other GM that the Pegulas have hired are the discarded scratch offs that people just drop in the parking lot.

We should be thanking our lucky stars that the Pegulas hiring practices actually worked one time and that GM hit the powerball with Josh Allen.

 

[Jim Bob]

Beane is the GM equivalent of winning one of those "cash for life" scratch offs.

Every other GM that the Pegulas have hired are the discarded scratch offs that people just drop in the parking lot.

We should be thanking our lucky stars that the Pegulas hiring practices actually worked one time and that GM hit the powerball with Josh Allen.

The hire McDermott-hire Beane-draft Josh Allen parlay is highly unlikely to be pulled off anytime soon with the Sabres.

It's also a different sport with different challenges when it comes to roster construction and player development.

 

[joshjull]

Pegula hired a rookie GM with zero NHL front office experience.

On day one, Pegula made him fire a bunch of staff, including front office staff.

There was not a single experienced NHL GM brought in to mentor said rookie GM with zero NHL front office experience.

They have had one of smallest pro scouting staffs during Adams tenure as GM.

Most of this is stating what Adams was when he got hired or expanding on what I already posted.

As for the mentor thing, thats not something that happens much. But in a f***ed up way Pegula thought he had that with Krueger. Since he felt he was his McDermott for the Sabres. Then Pegula set up the same power structure with the Sabres that the Bills have. The coach and GM both answering directly to him. Obviously this all blew up in Pegula’s face in fairly short order.

That have had one of the smallest cash spend on players and coaches during Adams tenure as GM.

The only evidence that Pegula has given Adams every resource needed to win is Adams saying that is the case. There is zero public data to back that up.

Thats not remotely true about coaches. I’ll respond to the player comment in a separate post.

Adam’s’ first two years as GM Krueger was making 3.75mil. He only coached half of one of those 2 years. To put his pay into context, Krueger would the 9th highest paid coach this season. We were also paying Granato to be head coach along with paying Krueger in year 2. Their combine salaries would be in the top 5 or 6 in salaries. It’s still insane to me Botts gave him that kind of money.

Granato’s 1.9mil extension that started this season would have tied him with Montgomery for 14th highest paid coach. It was only 100k a year less than Brindy and Woodcroft who are making 2mil. We’re also paying Lindy to be our head coach. I don’t know what he makes because they didn’t release that at the time. But I doubt it’s much less than Granato’s extension. Which puts their combined salaries in the top 7 or so.


We’re no where near the “smallest cash spend” on coaches. We’ve also wasted a lot of money on coaches since Adams took over. Pegula ate 8-9mil due to the Krueger/Granato firings. Thats the exact opposite of “economic and efficient”.

Its been a carnival of stupid with the coaches that started before Adams was GM and continues under his tenure.

 

[Jim Bob]

That's not remotely true about coaches. I’ll respond to the player comment in a separate post.

Adam’s’ first two years as GM Krueger was making 3.75mil. He only coached half of one of those 2 years. To put his pay into context, Krueger would the 9th highest paid coach this season. We were also paying Granato to be head coach along with paying Krueger in year 2. Their combine salaries would be in the top 5 or 6 in salaries. It’s still insane to me Botts gave him that kind of money.

Granato’s 1.9mil extension that started this season would have tied him with Montgomery for 14th highest paid coach. It was only 100k a year less than Brindy and Woodcroft who are making 2mil. We’re also paying Lindy to be our head coach. I don’t know what he makes because they didn’t release that at the time. But I doubt it’s much less than Granato’s extension. Which puts their combined salaries in the top 7 or so.

We have wasted a lot of money on coaches since Adams took over. Pegula ate 8-9mil due to the Krueger/Granato firings. Thats the exact opposite of “economic and efficient”. It’s also no where near the “smallest cash spend” by NHL teams on coaches.

Granato's first contract was bottom 1/3 in the league and the Sabres are likely not paying Lindy all that much given that the Devils are still on the hook for the remainder of Ruff's deal with them.

Ruff's contract with Devils was through 2025-26. Ruff's contract with the Sabres is through 2025-26. That seems like more than coincidence.

And when I am talking about the spend on coaches, it is more than the salary of the head coach. When Ruff was not allowed to bring in a single assistant coach from outside the organization, especially a coach to fix the putrid powerplay, that sure seems like a move to be "economical" to me.

 

[Fjordy]

Here is the problem for me.

One HUGE issue right now is that this is the youngest roster in the NHL once again. Trading for more young guys with team control, especially talk of young guys that are struggling elsewhere, isn't what this team needs.

The Sabres need more vets like Zucker, or the vets that Vegas had when they traded for Eichel or Florida had when they traded for Reinhart. And those kinds of vets are a huge challenge to get to Buffalo right now because the team stinks.

Plus, it's hard because they don't want to acquire vets on multi-year big money deals because of fear of having to make hard cap decisions in the future.

Just like trading Mitts for Byram hasn't been a huge positive impact (young guy for younger guy), I feel like Quinn for Zegras (or fill in the blank with any other young guy for young guy deal), is doing something that isn't likely to solve the main issue with this roster.

What is the problem with trading for such players? But it also does not mean that you exclude other types of trades, as you gave the example of Mitts for Byram. I agree that we need more veterans or just good players in their prime. We don't need so many kids on the roster.

 

[Jim Bob]

What is the problem with trading for such players? But it also does not mean that you exclude other types of trades, as you gave the example of Mitts for Byram. I agree that we need more veterans or just good players in their prime. We don't need so many kids on the roster.

The problem is that you are using assets to bring in players that are unlikely to solve the issues on the roster.

Replacing young players that don't know how to win with other young players that don't know how to win is not moving the team in the right direction, IMO.

 

[Fjordy]

The problem is that you are using assets to bring in players that are unlikely to solve the issues on the roster.

Replacing young players that don't know how to win with other young players that don't know how to win is not moving the team in the right direction, IMO.

No, I meant why not trade for guys like Zucker (vet players).

Well, it depends on who you replace them with, deals are different. In the NHL there are players aged 23-25 years who are consistently good, the same was said about Necas.

 

[Jim Bob]

No, I meant why not trade for guys like Zucker (vet players).

Well, it depends on who you replace them with, deals are different. In the NHL there are players aged 23-25 years who are consistently good, the same was said about Necas.

The challenge with trade for guys like Zucker aren't what people want to hear.

Fans want to hear that it is easy. Even if that is not reality.

Marek and Wysh were talking about the Sabres and their opinion is that they have too many guys playing one line too high in the lineup. Tage's line should be a 2nd line. The Cozens line should be the third line, etc.

Trading for 1st line guys is really hard. Necas and Ehlers not getting traded this summer despite rumors or Brady Tkachuk not being available despite rumors are examples of this.

 

[Fjordy]

The challenge with trade for guys like Zucker aren't what people want to hear.

Fans want to hear that it is easy. Even if that is not reality.

Marek and Wysh were talking about the Sabres and their opinion is that they have too many guys playing one line too high in the lineup. Tage's line should be a 2nd line. The Cozens line should be the third line, etc.

Trading for 1st line guys is really hard. Necas and Ehlers not getting traded this summer despite rumors or Brady Tkachuk not being available despite rumors are examples of this.

Just look at other teams, they have similar problems, not all of them have elite centers or wingers like Rantanen, Marner or Kaprizov. But they play somehow and there are even good teams. Just reduce the number of kids, one per line for example. Look for trade options with different teams, I bet there will be teams that will be interested in Power or Byram, Cozens, Peterka and some futures.

 

[Jim Bob]

Just look at other teams, they have similar problems, not all of them have elite centers or wingers like Rantanen, Marner or Kaprizov. But they play somehow and there are even good teams. Just reduce the number of kids, one per line for example. Look for trade options with different teams, I bet there will be teams that will be interested in Power or Byram, Cozens, Peterka and some futures.

Unfortunately, I doubt you will get a ton of offers for impactful veterans for those players.

For instance, there is talk about getting Troy Terry out of Anaheim. I doubt Verbeek is moving him for Peterka and Ostlund.

 

[Beerz]

Unfortunately, I doubt you will get a ton of offers for impactful veterans for those players.

For instance, there is talk about getting Troy Terry out of Anaheim. I doubt Verbeek is moving him for Peterka and Ostlund.

Well that's a relief.

 

[Fjordy]

Unfortunately, I doubt you will get a ton of offers for impactful veterans for those players.

For instance, there is talk about getting Troy Terry out of Anaheim. I doubt Verbeek is moving him for Peterka and Ostlund.

Again, I see three options.

1. Sign a guy like that to UFA. It's unlikely, it would require overpaying and here I agree with Adams that it's almost impossible or we don't need it.

2. Trade someone like Tuch+ for a player like that, on the one hand it would improve our first line, on the other hand we'd still lose a good top 6 player and we don't really have anyone to replace him with.

3. Find a player who can be a breakthrough. Look at what Zito did with Reinhart or St. Louis did with Buchnevich. It wasn't that expensive. We could do the same with Necas. Probably in the worst case you'd just get a top 6 guy and that's not that bad, you'd have two good right wingers, not elite and maybe not for the first line, but for the top 6. We don't even have that right now. Some teams don't have that either. I can give you examples.

Well, Terry, why not? I have no idea what Verbeek wants for Terry, any ideas? Maybe Kyrou in St. Louis or Fiala? Boeser? Maybe a guy like Farabee could be a breakout player but struggles in Torts' system or someone like that. You have to have a lot of options and ways to get that player. Maybe a guy like Maccelli (really liked his play and playmaking ability) or a giant like Crouse. Zetterlund is having a breakout season in San Jose. I think there are options.

Like I said, worst case scenario is you just want a decent second line winger, which would be fine.

 

[Jim Bob]

Again, I see three options.

1. Sign a guy like that to UFA. It's unlikely, it would require overpaying and here I agree with Adams that it's almost impossible or we don't need it.

2. Trade someone like Tuch+ for a player like that, on the one hand it would improve our first line, on the other hand we'd still lose a good top 6 player and we don't really have anyone to replace him with.

3. Find a player who can be a breakthrough. Look at what Zito did with Reinhart or St. Louis did with Buchnevich. It wasn't that expensive. We could do the same with Necas. Probably in the worst case you'd just get a top 6 guy and that's not that bad, you'd have two good right wingers, not elite and maybe not for the first line, but for the top 6. We don't even have that right now. Some teams don't have that either. I can give you examples.

Well, Terry, why not? I have no idea what Verbeek wants for Terry, any ideas? Maybe Kyrou in St. Louis or Fiala? Boeser? Maybe a guy like Farabee could be a breakout player but struggles in Torts' system or someone like that. You have to have a lot of options and ways to get that player. Maybe a guy like Maccelli (really liked his play and playmaking ability) or a giant like Crouse. Zetterlund is having a breakout season in San Jose. I think there are options.

Like I said, worst case scenario is you just want a decent second line winger, which would be fine.

UFAs are not options today.

People are not talking about offseason options. They are talking about moves they can make now to give this team a life preserver and try and make the playoffs this season in a really mediocre Eastern Conference.

The challenge is identifying quality veteran help that is available via trade today and getting a deal done.

If you look at the trade block articles, there isn't a name out there that seems like a slam dunk to help the Sabres now. And like Marek & Wysh said on their podcast today, NHL GMs overvalue their guys that is why you don't see a ton of trades, especially at this time of year.

I would love to see Adams trade Quinn, Cozens, and Samuelsson and 2nd and 3rd round picks for veterans that can help right now. I just don't expect that those kinds of trades are out there to be made today. And it takes two GMs to make a trade happen.

 

[Fjordy]

UFAs are not options today.

People are not talking about offseason options. They are talking about moves they can make now to give this team a life preserver and try and make the playoffs this season in a really mediocre Eastern Conference.

The challenge is identifying quality veteran help that is available via trade today and getting a deal done.

If you look at the trade block articles, there isn't a name out there that seems like a slam dunk to help the Sabres now. And like Marek & Wysh said on their podcast today, NHL GMs overvalue their guys that is why you don't see a ton of trades, especially at this time of year.

I would love to see Adams trade Quinn, Cozens, and Samuelsson and 2nd and 3rd round picks for veterans that can help right now. I just don't expect that those kinds of trades are out there to be made today. And it takes two GMs to make a trade happen.

There's probably nothing you can do now, I'm more likely to evaluate the moves in the TDL and in the summer. Well, try to trade for some of the players from my list that I mentioned, plus there are all sorts of veterans from Nashville, Anaheim and other teams. Also try to get the top 4 RD. Deals are happening quite often now, see for yourself. Adams was supposed to do all this in the summer, but he decided that the kids and three LD PMD would get him to the playoffs, he miscalculated.

 

[joshjull]

Granato's first contract was bottom 1/3 in the league and the Sabres are likely not paying Lindy all that much given that the Devils are still on the hook for the remainder of Ruff's deal with them.

Ruff's contract with Devils was through 2025-26. Ruff's contract with the Sabres is through 2025-26. That seems like more than coincidence.

And when I am talking about the spend on coaches, it is more than the salary of the head coach. When Ruff was not allowed to bring in a single assistant coach from outside the organization, especially a coach to fix the putrid powerplay, that sure seems like a move to be "economical" to me.

The fact remains they aren’t near the “smallest cash spend” on NHL coaches since Adams became GM.

You can’t make broad sweeping statements about the money spent on coaching during Adams tenure and then ignore chunks of it. We were in at least the top half, possibly the top 1/3rd in money spent on coaches since Adams hiring. I’m hardly praising the front office or owner pointing this out since how it happen was such a clusterf***.

I agree with your description of the Ruff hiring. But I think you’re trying to use that to make a broader argument that they won’t pay for coaches at all. But this didn’t happen in a vacuum. A more accurate description is after firing Granato, who was going to be the 14th highest paid coach, they didn’t want to spend much more on coaching. I don’t agree with it but its not the same as simply being cheap with every coaching hire.

I’ve been wondering if this was Pegula telling Adams not to spend much. Or if it was Adams trying to leverage his relationship with Ruff to get the best coaching he could for the least amount of money. All to save his ass for the mistake of extending Granato when he did and for how much.

 

[Jim Bob]

The fact remains they aren’t near the “smallest cash spend” on NHL coaches since Adams became GM.

You can’t make broad sweeping statements about the money spent on coaching during Adams tenure and then ignore chunks of it. We were in at least the top half, possibly the top 1/3rd in money spent on coaches since Adams hiring. I’m hardly praising the front office or owner pointing this out since how it happen was such a clusterf***.

I agree with your description of the Ruff hiring. But I think you’re trying to use that to make a broader argument that they won’t pay for coaches at all. But this didn’t happen in a vacuum. A more accurate description is after firing Granato, who was going to be the 14th highest paid coach, they didn’t want to spend much more on coaching. I don’t agree with it but its not the same as simply being cheap with every coaching hire.

I’ve been wondering if this was Pegula telling Adams not to spend much. Or if it was Adams trying to leverage his relationship with Ruff to get the best coaching he could for the least amount of money. All to save his ass for the mistake of extending Granato when he did and for how much.

I would not be shocked in the least if the total cash spend on the entire coaching staff since Adams became GM tracked with the total cash spend on the NHL roster.

Here is how things have gone with the roster spend under Adams:

Year 1 - 18th (the high water mark)
Year 2 - 31st
Year 3 - 30th
Year 4 - 29th
Year 5 - 27th

As soon as Ralph was shown his walking papers, Granato was given the job and was paid like a rookie coach.

But, they also had a smaller coaching staff in general under Granato from the assistants through the development coaches. And we heard all sorts of reasons why. But, given all the other areas where they have run light since Adams came in and was told to lay off a bunch of people, it sure seems to be an organizational trend.

We will never know the truth. But, the optics are not good.

 

[joshjull]

That have had one of the smallest cash spend on players and coaches during Adams tenure as GM.

The only evidence that Pegula has given Adams every resource needed to win is Adams saying that is the case. There is zero public data to back that up.

I wanted to address this separately. Why do you think thats the owner and not the GM?

The narrative about an “internal budget” starts after Pegula’s comments about being “economic and efficient” in the 2020 offseason. Our spending on the roster since then….

2021 (Covid) -> near upper limit (roughly 19mil above lower limit)
21-22 -> near lower limit
22-23 -> at lower limit.
23-24 -> just above mid point (roughly 12mil above lower limit)
24-25 -> between midpoint + upper limit (roughly 16mil above lower limit)

I don’t see any budgetary explanation for that spending. I see fairly obvious team building explanations. Tried to build a winner and failed miserably. Tore it all down to rebuild with inexpensive youth. Started paying the youth.

I’ve asked this question a ton of times but …..if there’s a budget, what is it based on? There has to be something underpinning a budget. something thats its governing principle. Simply not spending the upper limit is not a budget.

This season we’d be probably be at the upper limit if we if we had acquired a top six forward. But Adams either didn’t want to or couldn’t acquire one.

 

[Ace]

Arguing the semantics of how cheap they’ve been at coach after two straight hires with no search…the first being an internal promotion totally unearned and cheap…the second getting paid more by the Devils than you…and forced to keep coaches already under contract

It’s certainly a choice…

That only our resident Pegula apologist would make

 

[Jim Bob]

I wanted to address this separately. Why do you think thats the owner and not the GM?

The narrative about an “internal budget” starts after Pegula’s comments about being “economic and efficient” in the 2020 offseason. Our spending on the roster since then….

2021 (Covid) -> near upper limit (roughly 19mil above lower limit)
21-22 -> near lower limit
22-23 -> at lower limit.
23-24 -> just above mid point (roughly 12mil above lower limit)
24-25 -> between midpoint + upper limit (roughly 16mil above lower limit)

I don’t see any budgetary explanation for that spending. I see fairly obvious team building explanations. Tried to build a winner and failed miserably. Tore it all down to rebuild with inexpensive youth. Started paying the youth.

I’ve asked this question a ton of times but …..if there’s a budget, what is it based on? There has to be something underpinning a budget. something thats its governing principle. Simply not spending the upper limit is not a budget.

This season we’d be probably be at the upper limit if we if we had acquired a top six forward. But Adams either didn’t want to or couldn’t acquire one.

Spotrac has the Sabres cash spend on the NHL roster as 18th in the NHL in that 2021 COVID year. So, what you label as near the upper limit, Spotrac has in the bottom half of the league. And they have been in the bottom 6 in the four years since.

I cannot believe that is all on the GM.

Especially given that they have been under resourced in so many other areas of the hockey side of things. And that is not even getting into the failure to do proper upkeep to the arena until this year.

There is way more evidence that budgets with the Sabres have been slashed across the board. Something as simple as the season ticket holder "gift" this year is allowing STHs to purchase a Lindy Ruff bobblehead points to things not being the GM truly being given every resource possible to build a winner.

And the biggest piece of evidence is hiring a rookie GM with zero NHL front office experience and thinking he can get the job done without an experienced GM around to mentor him.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Another internal hire and a guy with no experience? No thanks. If you can't find or don't want to hire an experienced GM, then at least an experienced guy who has many years of experience as an AGM and in the front office. Someone like Michael Futa or one of the Dallas AGMs for example.

Your making your comments based on emotion, I threw mine out there remembering who the owner is

Spotrac has the Sabres cash spend on the NHL roster as 18th in the NHL in that 2021 COVID year. So, what you label as near the upper limit, Spotrac has in the bottom half of the league. And they have been in the bottom 6 in the four years since.

I cannot believe that is all on the GM.

Especially given that they have been under resourced in so many other areas of the hockey side of things. And that is not even getting into the failure to do proper upkeep to the arena until this year.

There is way more evidence that budgets with the Sabres have been slashed across the board. Something as simple as the season ticket holder "gift" this year is allowing STHs to purchase a Lindy Ruff bobblehead points to things not being the GM truly being given every resource possible to build a winner.

And the biggest piece of evidence is hiring a rookie GM with zero NHL front office experience and thinking he can get the job done without an experienced GM around to mentor him.

I'm think Karmanos is Adams mentor already

Serious question.

Does anyone feel confident they know how to turn around the Sabres organization? I honestly don’t even know where to begin. Typically I have an idea of what to do.

Is it simply hire an experienced Hockey Ops guy and give him the keys?

Who's fixing the Sabres

 

[Fjordy]

Your making your comments based on emotion, I through mine out there remembering who the owner is

It's not an emotion, it's just an obvious thing.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

It's not an emotion, it's just an obvious thing.

your yelling at the clouds though

 

[TehDoak]

I wanted to address this separately. Why do you think thats the owner and not the GM?

The narrative about an “internal budget” starts after Pegula’s comments about being “economic and efficient” in the 2020 offseason. Our spending on the roster since then….

2021 (Covid) -> near upper limit (roughly 19mil above lower limit)
21-22 -> near lower limit
22-23 -> at lower limit.
23-24 -> just above mid point (roughly 12mil above lower limit)
24-25 -> between midpoint + upper limit (roughly 16mil above lower limit)

I don’t see any budgetary explanation for that spending. I see fairly obvious team building explanations. Tried to build a winner and failed miserably. Tore it all down to rebuild with inexpensive youth. Started paying the youth.

I’ve asked this question a ton of times but …..if there’s a budget, what is it based on? There has to be something underpinning a budget. something thats its governing principle. Simply not spending the upper limit is not a budget.

This season we’d be probably be at the upper limit if we if we had acquired a top six forward. But Adams either didn’t want to or couldn’t acquire one.

Lets shorten this a bit:

Owner (this is a paraphrase) "f*** yeah we're gonna be cheap. I'm hiring this guy, I'm telling him "BE ECONOMIC". You hear that everyone, this guy with no experience at all, I'm hiring him to be "Effective, Economic, and Efficient". That's right, Cheap"

The GM then goes out, finishes dead last, trades every expensive player they can, spends BELOW the cap floor two years, and near the bottom of the league the two years after that.

You: "I'm not sure this is on the owner"

Of course its on the owner. The owner hired a guy with no experience so he'd be listened to and he publicly said he wanted him to be cheap, then the GM was really cheap.

If I have a press conference and say "I'm hiring Bob to specifically burn this house down" and then Bob burns the house down, nobody is going to say "I'm not sure TehDoak has anything to do with this house fire, really looks like Bob acted alone"

 

[TageGod]

Are we willing to wait for every talent in the organization to develop, do we have time? Although Tage is 27 years old and already an established player and I don't know what he is doing on this list.

Black and white conversation about talent. Simply stating talented players in a vacuum.