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Speculation: Kevin Devine

  • Thread starter Thread starter ZeroPT*
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ZeroPT*

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I'm bored. I've been thinking about some things, it may just be me but I have the impression that Devine has been a walking dead man since TM took over.

I don't know if they can work together very well in the long-term. I actually think he'll be replace soon, by someone with knowledge on the cap front.

Thoughts?
Do you think he gets replaced?
If so, who would you bring in?

This thread is mainly out of complete boredom, and I'm not advocating the release of KD. Just an observation and a topic to talk about.
 
I think it all depends on how KD and TM got along.......as well as the scouting department in Phoenix.

Regarding Phoenix: it always struck me that DR and KD were tight. If Maloney isn't particularly enamored with his scouting department, it could be that one of DR's first big inputs would be to bring KD over as Director of Scouting.

If KD and TM did get along well, then I think a cap guy is going to come in with some sort of convoluted title (AGM and VP of something). Though, I don't think that it's foremost in TM's mind right now. We're not going to need a "cap guy" for a couple of years yet. I think right now he's more worried about finding Teddy some assistant coaches and the upcoming development camp.

I hope KD sticks around.
 
They're clashing imo.

KD and TM both have strengths in drafting and evaluating (moreso TM).

We don't have someone who is familiar with the CBA (I mean, a guru) who can handle contract negotiations and has a good grasp of most teams situations.

Managing the cap is crucial, look at Boston and Chicago for example. They haven't exactl managed their cap very well and the Bruins couldn't re-sign Iginla while the Hawks are begging teams to talk their cap dumps to make some space, plus they have the Kane/Toews extensions to worry about.

I'm looking at the long term right now.
 
ZeroPT said:
They're clashing imo.

KD and TM both have strengths in drafting and evaluating (moreso TM).
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What gives you the impression that they're clashing? Just b/c KD and TM have the same strengths doesn't necessarily mean that they have to clash.

On the contrary, I would think that TM would encourage KD to challenge TM from time to time over prospects/draftees/etc. TM seems the type that welcomes all sorts of input, be it input that agrees with him or input that doesn't.
 
Zman5778 said:
What gives you the impression that they're clashing? Just b/c KD and TM have the same strengths doesn't necessarily mean that they have to clash.

On the contrary, I would think that TM would encourage KD to challenge TM from time to time over prospects/draftees/etc. TM seems the type that welcomes all sorts of input, be it input that agrees with him or input that doesn't.
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a front office needs to be balanced.

Right now, what we need is patience and a vision, we have that. But in a few years, would it be more beneficial to have KD who only does scouting or a guy who is an expert in the field of the CBA and other important aspects of the game.

Devine was the perfect AGM to Darcy, and would be a perfect head of scouting like he was before, but I'd rather have a guy who has different strengths than TM.
 
lol I didn't even answer your question.

Both have similar personalities. They're both very blunt and brutally honest, have very similar strengths. I think if we hired Benning or Botteril, having Devine would be perfect because he can handle the draft and they can handle the NHL level/Cap. But Murray is similar to KD, but better.

I think that's too much of one thing and not enough of another.
 
I'm in agreement on the fact that we need a cap guru and lawyer who specializes in contracts and negotiation at AGM. Devine is another Tim Murray on scouting and having both does help with the prospect evaluation and I can see some clashing from time to time on evaluations but our prospect pool is built. It's now time to start working the contracts as we trickle more prospects into the system and we only need one to do that as the main/final say evaluator.
 
Not right now. I want KD to stay for the 2015 draft, we need as good scouting as we can for that draft as it is crucial to our future, but as we look to ascend in the standings and our guys' ELC's start running down, picking up a guy who's well versed in the CBA and has experience as a negotiator would be a shrewd move.

Maybe a player agent?
 
TM and organizational icon Pat Lafontaine clashed and Patty was gone within a month.

If TM and Devine were truly clashing, Devine would have gotten canned a long time ago.
 
ZeroPT said:
a front office needs to be balanced.

Right now, what we need is patience and a vision, we have that. But in a few years, would it be more beneficial to have KD who only does scouting or a guy who is an expert in the field of the CBA and other important aspects of the game.

Devine was the perfect AGM to Darcy, and would be a perfect head of scouting like he was before, but I'd rather have a guy who has different strengths than TM.
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If Kevin Devine leaves he'll be replaced by another director of scouting. Tim Murray isn't going to be the director of scouting. You'd have the same lack of "balance".

The title of AGM doesn't matter. It's not stopping them from having another AGM who is an expert at contracts and the CBA, which they were on record as looking for when Murray was hired.
 
Rob Paxon said:
If Kevin Devine leaves he'll be replaced by another director of scouting. Tim Murray isn't going to be the director of scouting. You'd have the same lack of "balance".

The title of AGM doesn't matter. It's not stopping them from having another AGM who is an expert at contracts and the CBA, which they were on record as looking for when Murray was hired.
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I think you're seriously undervaluing how much GMTM enjoys scouting. That's his thing. He's not going to just stop doing that.
 
Rob Paxon said:
If Kevin Devine leaves he'll be replaced by another director of scouting. Tim Murray isn't going to be the director of scouting. You'd have the same lack of "balance".

The title of AGM doesn't matter. It's not stopping them from having another AGM who is an expert at contracts and the CBA, which they were on record as looking for when Murray was hired.
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Agreed. I don't see any reason why KD can't stay on and TM just adds another AGM that's a cap specialist.
 
Maybe KD can stay on, it doesn't hurt TM knowing that he has a really good assistant GM in talent evaluation.

Perhaps we could hire a VP of hockey operations who is a lawyer/cap guru and knows the CBA like the back of his hand and does the cap/business side of things.

If TM and KD have a similar vision for this team, then maybe it takes pressure off TM to go scout every single kid multiple times. He'll have KD do some of that as well, and they can talk over prospects knowing that they have the same vision for this team and are both very knowledgeable. I agree that TM is probably a little better than KD, but it doesn't hurt to have 2 minds with 1 vision/goal does it? Then again, this only depends if they have the same vision or not lol
 
boots electric said:
TM and organizational icon Pat Lafontaine clashed and Patty was gone within a month.

If TM and Devine were truly clashing, Devine would have gotten canned a long time ago.
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I've never heard Murray linked to Patty's departure. It was described as a battle of egos between the folks higher up in the organization. Whether that was Pegula himself or his top aides I'm not sure. But almost all reporting on it said Murray wasn't part of it.
 
Pretty sure I've heard Murray mention we have people assigned just to work on the CBA/Cap side of things..much like we have a Analytics department that you don't hear much about.
 
Beerz said:
Pretty sure I've heard Murray mention we have people assigned just to work on the CBA/Cap side of things..much like we have a Analytics department that you don't hear much about.
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This is true. Assistant to the GM Mark Jakubowski takes care of contract negotiations and I believe CBA.
 
Jacob582 said:
This is true. Assistant to the GM Mark Jakubowski takes care of contract negotiations and I believe CBA.
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Yup. This was from the media guide in 2011 ..

From the 2010/11 Sabres Media Guide:

Mark Jakubowski begins his sixth year with the Sabres and third as the Assistant to the General Manager. His responsibilities include statistical and salary cap analysis, contract research relating to player negotiations and arbitrations, managing player transfers, team roster administration, and all matters relating to compliance with the NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement and other NHL agreements. Jakubowski also assists with the American Hockey League hockey operations of the team’s minor league affiliate, the Portland Pirates. Jakubowski graduated with an economics degree from the University of Rochester, where he also played baseball. He resides in Hamburg, NY.
 
Beerz said:
Yup. This was from the media guide in 2011 ..

From the 2010/11 Sabres Media Guide:

Mark Jakubowski begins his sixth year with the Sabres and third as the Assistant to the General Manager. His responsibilities include statistical and salary cap analysis, contract research relating to player negotiations and arbitrations, managing player transfers, team roster administration, and all matters relating to compliance with the NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement and other NHL agreements. Jakubowski also assists with the American Hockey League hockey operations of the team’s minor league affiliate, the Portland Pirates. Jakubowski graduated with an economics degree from the University of Rochester, where he also played baseball. He resides in Hamburg, NY.
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wow.

I didn't even know we had him. That kinda changes my view
 
VanekFanatic26 said:
I think you're seriously undervaluing how much GMTM enjoys scouting. That's his thing. He's not going to just stop doing that.
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Who's asking him to? Devine isn't stopping him from scouting any more than the head scout is stopping Devine (the director of scouting) from scouting. Tim Murray will have a director of scouting whether or not it's Devine, so what's the difference in this regard?
 
joshjull said:
I've never heard Murray linked to Patty's departure. It was described as a battle of egos between the folks higher up in the organization. Whether that was Pegula himself or his top aides I'm not sure. But almost all reporting on it said Murray wasn't part of it.
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I thought I remembered hearing a large part of the rift was caused because of differences of opinion on what to do with Ryan Miller.

Either way, the point I was trying to convey is that TM doesn't strike me as the sort of guy that would keep someone around if they were butting heads.
 
I don't think there would be a rift between them.

Murray said he hadn't seen many of the players the Sabres drafted play. This makes me believe that his influence is less about the scouting of the individual player and more about overall characteristics of players.

If you look back at old Sens behind the scenes videos, Murray listened to the scouts and then would chip in based on what the scouts said. For example, if they were wavering over a guy because of numerous flaws, he'd tell them to cross the guy off.
 
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