Ken Holland will Not Return to the Oilers

[rec28]

If McDavid and Draisaitl weren’t on the team and Holland was able to deliver the same level of success with mere mortal players (but all other trades, signings, and picks staying the same), I’d agree with a B. As it is, though, McDrai’s presence papered over a whole lot of obvious deficiencies that Holland either couldn’t or wouldn’t address. He made a few good moves but few genuinely damaging ones. I give him a C

 

[PBandJ]

Of course he gets to walk away from the albatross that Campbell and Nurse are. He f***ed this team and doesn't have to deal with it.

 

[russ99]

What are all the whiners going to whine about now? Seriously, for two offseasons now, people have been calling for Holland to be fired every day on Twitter.

If you look at what Holland started with (the mess Chia and the OBC left him) and what he ended up with, he did well under difficult situations. It wasn't doing great or a perfect job, but what GM does that? There are always moves that work out and don't work out. I give him a B.

What's frustrating is our fans of a certain analytical bent hated everything that wasn't a clear win; every contract and trade was not ruthless enough (despite there being two sides to every trade and contract negotiation), and rained disdain on any move/player they thought of as worthless with their narrow focus.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

What are all the whiners going to whine about now? Seriously, for two offseasons now, people have been calling for Holland to be fired every day on Twitter.

If you look at what Holland started with (the mess Chia and the OBC left him) and what he ended up with, he did well under difficult situations. It wasn't doing great or a perfect job, but what GM does that? There are always moves that work out and don't work out. I give him a B.

What's frustrating is our fans of a certain analytical bent hated everything that wasn't a clear win; every contract and trade was not ruthless enough (despite there being two sides to every trade and contract negotiation), and rained disdain on any move/player they thought of as worthless with their narrow focus.

Its not about batting 100% on trades/signing, every GM is going to miss and make mistakes. My biggest issue with Holland was his lack of creativity and losing on the margins. I thought a lot of his ideas and targets were smart, however, the execution of these moves lacked the precision and creativity needed to win big and consistently in the NHL

 

[The Nuge]

What are all the whiners going to whine about now? Seriously, for two offseasons now, people have been calling for Holland to be fired every day on Twitter.

If you look at what Holland started with (the mess Chia and the OBC left him) and what he ended up with, he did well under difficult situations. It wasn't doing great or a perfect job, but what GM does that? There are always moves that work out and don't work out. I give him a B.

What's frustrating is our fans of a certain analytical bent hated everything that wasn't a clear win; every contract and trade was not ruthless enough (despite there being two sides to every trade and contract negotiation), and rained disdain on any move/player they thought of as worthless with their narrow focus.

Ya we weren’t even a playoff team when Holland was hired despite us having the 2 best players in the world. He definitely wasn’t perfect, but a B grade is very fair. He got Nuge and Hyman locked up for less than 11 million, and they’ve average 85 points over the last 2 years, and got us that stabilizing presence on the backend who we haven’t had since Pronger left. Those 3 moves alone get him a damn good grade

 

[bellagiobob]

2 more goals in game 7 for us and I'd give him an A-, but unfortunately that didn't happen, so I will give him a solid B. If you actually go and look at the roster he had when he took over, and what we have now, it is a night and day difference. The obvious oofs that we all know bring his grade down and leave us in a tougher spot, but overall he was a win away from giving us exactly what he was hired to do. Having said that I think his time is up, he has his flaws, and hopefully the next GM can take us to the next step on the journey.

 

[PBandJ]

Feel for the poor sucker that has to clean up after Holland. The Campbell and Nurse contracts are going to continue screwing this team badly.

 

[TheNumber4]

Okay. So the best moves Holland made are essentially why I fear losing Holland. But thinking about it, would those moves have happened anyways?

Nuge Resigning at a great cap hit - probably still happens. It was Nuge and his history with the Oilers that ultimately got this done.
Hyman signing - Wanted to come here for the McDavid factor. Probably would have still happened.
Ekholm Trade - Not sure if this happens without Hollands connections. Ekholm trade came a bit out of left field.

So I guess we are looking at one great move that may not have happened with Holland at the helm. Makes me feel better about losing him.

Meanwhile, a bunch of bad moves could probably have been avoided without Holland relying on the tired eyes of Archie, probably zero analytics, and horrific negotiation skills.

 

[JeffSkinner53]

Feel for the poor sucker that has to clean up after Holland. The Campbell and Nurse contracts are going to continue screwing this team badly.

I think campbell gets bought out

 

[Jumptheshark]

are any of us shocked by the confirmation that Holland wont even be at the draft? When was the last time a GM of a cup final team was shown the door?

 

[bellagiobob]

are any of us shocked by the confirmation that Holland wont even be at the draft? When was the last time a GM of a cup final team was shown the door?

He wasn't shown the door, his contract was up, and both sides wanted to move along.

 

[Jumptheshark]

He wasn't shown the door, his contract was up, and both sides wanted to move along.

a few years ago I was Ops manager of a hotel and my contract was up and I was informed my contract would not be renewed. Oilers Know they need fresh blood in the office and told Holland his time was up.

 

[TheNumber4]

are any of us shocked by the confirmation that Holland wont even be at the draft? When was the last time a GM of a cup final team was shown the door?

I would guess it's a rare situation. But so was the firing of Woody after the very successful coaching record he had.

Watching Holland operate at the draft.... i don't think we are losing much. He pretty just told Wright to do his thing. So we are only missing him telling Pracey to do his thing. JJ can step into that role this year.

 

[Mr Positive]

Did a great job imo.

The great moves he made brought us to game 7

The bad moves have options attached that we can weasle out of them with.

I don't mind moving on from him. He is older and I'm sure Jackson knows what he is doing. Knoblauch is all him, and our moves this year were good ones

 

[grego]

Our team really sucked when he came. He was better than chia but that doesn't say a lot

He is the porridge that Goldilocks chose of gms. Not amazing but couldn't have been worse

 

[Salvaged Ship]

There is no GM who has never made a bad move or bad signing. We were 1 period away from a cup, he deserves credit. Was he perfect? No. No one is. He did admirably.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

What are all the whiners going to whine about now? Seriously, for two offseasons now, people have been calling for Holland to be fired every day on Twitter.

If you look at what Holland started with (the mess Chia and the OBC left him) and what he ended up with, he did well under difficult situations. It wasn't doing great or a perfect job, but what GM does that? There are always moves that work out and don't work out. I give him a B.

What's frustrating is our fans of a certain analytical bent hated everything that wasn't a clear win; every contract and trade was not ruthless enough (despite there being two sides to every trade and contract negotiation), and rained disdain on any move/player they thought of as worthless with their narrow focus.

my favorites were the posts here that blamed him for failing to sign certain UFAs that had stated they were not interested in signing with Edmonton. the whiners on this board caused me to leave the Oilers bandwagon.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I'd feel a lot better about him if the Nurse/Campbell contracts were different. That Nurse contract in particular is such an anchor.

 

[bellagiobob]

my favorites were the posts here that blamed him for failing to sign certain UFAs that had stated they were not interested in signing with Edmonton. the whiners on this board caused me to leave the Oilers bandwagon.

That's the beauty of the ignore feature.

 

[Mr Positive]

I'd feel a lot better about him if the Nurse/Campbell contracts were different. That Nurse contract in particular is such an anchor.

I agree but at the same time I think he should have a certain amount of leeway. We have the benefit of hindsight and armchair GMing.

Like the Nurse contract. He had a career year and the market price was set. If we let him go and he took another step forward then Holland would have been fired already

 

[WaitingForUser]

I agree but at the same time I think he should have a certain amount of leeway. We have the benefit of hindsight and armchair GMing.

Like the Nurse contract. He had a career year and the market price was set. If we let him go and he took another step forward then Holland would have been fired already

So much this. Nurses value was set by Chicago Columbus and New Jersey. Not by Holland that was the market price for a top pair d man that summer. And that summer Nurse was absolutely a top pair defenceman

 

[Stealth1616]

In hindsight the Campbell signing wasn’t the best move but to everyone criticizing it - what was the alternative?

If we went into the season with Skinner he would have been crucified. The goalie market was pretty thin if I can remember and he still would of needed to find someone who wanted to come here

 

[Mr Positive]

In hindsight the Campbell signing wasn’t the best move but to everyone criticizing it - what was the alternative?

If we went into the season with Skinner he would have been crucified. The goalie market was pretty thin if I can remember and he still would of needed to find someone who wanted to come here

Imo Campbell was a decent goalie to try but I don't see why we had to give him term. Peterson, Hill and others like them get 3 years.

 

[Stealth1616]

Imo Campbell was a decent goalie to try but I don't see why we had to give him term. Peterson, Hill and others like them get 3 years.

I mean that’s probably what it takes to convince players to come in free agency. Think Kuemper got 5 or 6 years. My criticism of it was that he never really was a starting goalie, but had some pretty good numbers for several years.

At the end of the day he went out and got one of the top free agent goalies that year.

Did it work out ? No it didn’t. But using hindsight to judge on that isn’t really the best

 

[MoontoScott]

If McDavid and Draisaitl weren’t on the team and Holland was able to deliver the same level of success with mere mortal players (but all other trades, signings, and picks staying the same), I’d agree with a B. As it is, though, McDrai’s presence papered over a whole lot of obvious deficiencies that Holland either couldn’t or wouldn’t address. He made a few good moves but few genuinely damaging ones. I give him a C

I think if Mc-D and Drai didn't play for the Oilers then getting to the Stanley Cup Final with the rest of the boys would be an A++ miracle.