JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
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Ken Dryden vs. Dominik Hasek
- Thread starter JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
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Epsilon
#basta
Dominik Hasek has a clearly better regular season peak and much greater longevity, and didn't play behind a dynasty team (unless you want to call the 2001/02 Red Wings the equivalent of one). Dryden may have a (greatly team-assisted) advantage in the playoffs, but Hasek is just light-years ahead of him in terms of an all-time ranking.
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
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Dryden flirts with a top 10 goalie ranking. Hasek flirts with a #1 ranking.
There were warts on Hasek, but he was just something else out there. I don't think there has ever been a goalie in the history of the NHL who has singlehandidly carried a weak team to great heights like Buffalo. Throw that in with 6 Vezinas and two Cups on actual good teams and how can you pick Dryden over him?
There were warts on Hasek, but he was just something else out there. I don't think there has ever been a goalie in the history of the NHL who has singlehandidly carried a weak team to great heights like Buffalo. Throw that in with 6 Vezinas and two Cups on actual good teams and how can you pick Dryden over him?
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Search "Dominik Hasek" on this board. Or search "Hasek Roy" or "Hasek Brodeur" and there should be some good comparisons. I don't recall a direct Dryden comparison before.
tony d
New poll series coming from me in June
Ohashi_Jouzu*
Registered User
Dryden is one of my favourite all-time Habs, he's about as accomplished as any goalie could hope to be, and probably the nicest NHLer I've ever had the pleasure of speaking with personally, and despite being a Habs fan to boot... Hasek every day of the week.
HabsByTheBay
Registered User
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Comparison
Dryden was a tested warrior, the type of player you win with. Hasek was the artist, the type of player you get entertained by.
Dryden was a tested warrior, the type of player you win with. Hasek was the artist, the type of player you get entertained by.
The implication that Hasek wasn't the type of player you win with seems insane.
pluppe
Registered User
- Apr 6, 2009
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haven´t you heard. Dryden's Habs were only thought to be great because he made them great. other than him they totally sucked.
in other news:
Do you mean the guy who constantly went head to head with his coaches, or do you mean the guy who held out on his team for an entire year because he just didn't really feel like playing hockey?
Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
Dryden's Conn Smythe in '71 as a rookie was well earned and the biggest reason why they got by Orr and the B's to eventually win the Cup that year.
Don't get me wrong here, I would take Hasek over Kenny as well but just like Roy, Dryden has some playoff performances that Hasek just can't quite match.
pluppe
Registered User
- Apr 6, 2009
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so you agree with C1958s statement?
then I think we just have to agree to disagree.
VanIslander
20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
BraveCanadian
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2010
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Dryden was an important part of a dynasty team and a great goaltender in his own right.. but Hasek was a notch above.
Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
I never said I agreed with 1958's statement, you can infer anything you like and attempt to put words in my mouth but I actually don't agree. Hasek was more than just entertaining imo.
What I disagree with is your implication that Dryden only got where he was and won what he won on the backs on those Canadien's teams when it's more than clear that at times, the opposite was true.
Hasek was a great goalie, maybe even the best ever but he was not the strongest playoff goalie, that distinction is clearly held by Patrick Roy.
Furthermore, Dryden could easily be argued to have had stronger playoff performances than Hasek.
As Brave put it, Hasek was a notch above in most aspects and categories.
livewell68
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2007
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If you take a closer look at their respective records, Hasek is actually a lot closer to Roy in the playoffs than you think.
Considering the teams Hasek played for in Buffalo, Hasek still finished with a .925% in the playoffs and a G.A.A. just slightly over 2.00 (2.02 to be exact).
Sure Roy won 3 Conn Smythes and was a playoff beast but he also had better teams in front of him.
Even his 2 Conn Smythes in Montreal (phenomenal performance in itself) were backing up much better teams than any Buffalo team that Hasek played for.
Hasek's 2002 Cup run was pretty darn impressive. He had a .923% save percentage and a G.A.A of 1.86.
I can tell you that Hasek's playoff run in 1999 with the Stars is just as impressive as any Roy playoff performance.
The Sabres were a 7th seed team and had no business being in the Finals let alone push the stars to 6 games and 3 overtimes.
Hasek should have won the Conn Smythe that year (just like how they gave it to Giguere in Anaheim).
The Stars had a powerhouse team (went to the Finals twice) with Belfour, Modano, Nieuwendyk, Hatcher, Lehtinen, Hull, Verbeek, Langenbrunner, Turek, Carbonneau, Zubov...
So Hasek gets a bad rap in the playoffs but he was just as impressive then as he was in the regular season.
In fact his playoffs save % and G.A.A. are slightly better than his regular season ones.
Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
Look up Roy's playoff OT record and then come back and tell me that their respective records are "close".
His PO OT record is so ridiculous that no one else is even remotely close to him.
40-18 with the next closest being Belfour at 22-20.
Not to mention his NHL record of 12 straight PO OT wins in a row from '93-'96.
Which BTW is only two less wins than Hasek has total.
Look, Hasek was better than Roy overall, especially in the regular season but come playoff time, Roy was better.
Trying to argue otherwise is no different than trying to make a case that Roy was as good as Hasek in the regular season. He makes a decent case but falls noticeably short in the end.
You say "Sure, Roy has 3 Conn Smythes" like it's something to be dismissed, not like it's also an NHL record or anything.
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livewell68
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2007
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Hasek deserved the Conn Smythe in 1999 and quite possibly in 2002.
Roy winning in OT is great and all but it also means his teams were able to score in OT. Roy stopped the puck but he didn't score the goals.
The Sabres didn't have any big names. They had Peca, Satan and Zitnik.
Name one Cup winning team that Roy played on that was nearly as bad as those Sabres teams?
Surely not those Avanlanche powerhouse teams and certainly not those Canadiens teams.
If Hasek stops 50 shots in triple overtime (we all know how controversial Hull's goal was against the Sabres) but loses while Roy makes 30 saves in a game that goes to 1 overtime and his team scores the game winner; how does Roy's performance become any better than Hasek's?
Hasek, be it in the regular season or playoffs made 40-50 saves routinely sometimes turning in shutouts. Who holds the record for most saves in a playoff game featuring a shuout? It's Hasek with 70 saves in 4OT's against the Devils in 1994. Roy was great, even dominant but he had better teams playing in front of him. Hasek was the Sabres. Roy was a part of the Canadiens and Avalanche.
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quoipourquoi
Goaltender
Goals-Per-Game in Regular Season, Playoffs
Montreal
1971: 3.73, 3.75
1973: 4.22, 4.29
1976: 4.21, 3.38
1977: 4.84, 3.86
1978: 4.49, 3.87
1979: 4.21, 3.94
1986: 4.13, 2.80
1989: 3.94, 3.19
1993: 3.88, 3.30
Colorado
1996: 3.98, 3.73
2001: 3.29, 3.00
Buffalo
1999: 2.52, 2.81
Detroit
2002: 3.06, 3.13
Ken Dryden's teams got worse offensively in four out of six Finals runs.
Patrick Roy's teams got worse offensively in all five Finals runs.
Dominik Hasek's teams improved offensively in both Finals runs.
Hasek was about as good in the playoffs as he was in the regular season, but the fact that his teams that advanced to the Finals just happened to be playing better offensive hockey than usual has to take a little bit of the luster off of things in terms of how well he was actually carrying everybody when they made it that far. You tossed out the name Giguere, and I just don't see it that way (2.48 drops to a 2.14). The 1999 Buffalo Sabres, who were playing in a particularly low-scoring era, scored more goals-per-game in the playoffs than the 1986 Montreal Canadiens, who were playing in the middle of a particularly high-scoring era.
Hasek was still Buffalo's best player, but he was getting help from a group effort that was overachieving offensively. In the case of Roy (in all five playoffs) and Dryden (in four of six playoffs), they were advancing in spite of a less potent offensive.
And then there's this...
Save Percentage Points Above League Average - Playoff Finalists 1982-Present
1. Patrick Roy, 1986 (.049)
2. Patrick Roy, 1993 (.044)
3. Patrick Roy, 1989 (.041)
4. Pelle Lindbergh, 1985 (.039)
5. Grant Fuhr, 1984 (.037)
6. Jean-Sebastien Giguere, 2003 (.036)
7. Olaf Kolzig, 1998 (.035)
8. John Vanbiesbrouck, 1996 (.034)
9. Tom Barrasso, 1991 (.033)
9. Kirk McLean, 1994 (.033)
Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
No, perhaps you're too young, I don't know but ROY WAS THE HABS!
And just for the record, Hasek's Sabre's in 98/99 were 4th in the East, exactly the same as Roy's Habs in 92/93 and the Habs were 5th in the East in 85/86.
The possibility that Hasek could of won the Conn Smythe in '99 and '02 means nothing as Roy also could of won it in '89 and '96.
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
And I'm sure Roy is devastated that Uwe Krupp scored on John Vanbiesbrouck before Roy could record more than 63 with the Cup in the building...
Listen, I'm not about to speak ill of the 1994 Devils/Sabres series, because it's one of the greats, but that does not override a goaltender being the only HOFer/borderline HOFer of his generation to see his Winning Percentage improve in the playoffs, especially when he's the only HOFer/borderline HOFer from his generation to see his Winning Percentage improve AGAIN when that playoff game goes to overtime.
EDIT: And since we're straying too far away from it, I would take Hasek over Dryden. Had Dryden stayed in the league longer, it probably becomes a close call, but his situation was a little different than Hasek not signing with Chicago during the 1987 Canada Cup.
pluppe
Registered User
- Apr 6, 2009
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bolded: I did not put words in your mouth. I asked you a question to, you know, be sure and not put word in your mouth. the only thing I implied was that Drydens teams was quite good. which I stand by.
then you went and put words in my mouth by stating things I have never said. you took this as me implying he only got where he was because of them and lashed out at this newly created windmill.
the irony.
