Proposal: Kappo Kakko for Jayden Struble + NJ 3rd

[Prairie Habs]

If MTL didn't pay 1st+ for both Dach and Newhook that would hold a lot more weight

And those comparisons would hold more weight if Kakko was as valuable as those players

 

[pth2]

Not a bad proposal. It comes down to player evaluation - if Struble is seen as a Chiarot type, Montreal don't move him; if NYR still believe Kakko can be a Lehkonen type, they don't move him, either.

Montreal shouldn't be making short term moves and Demidov and Slafkovsky should be the two top RW, long term, so if Montreal gets Kakko, it won't be for a high end kind of price.

 

[FiveTacos]

Lmao no from Rangers.


He’s 23 years old…before last years leg injury he had 40 points in 80 games. We’ll hold him thanks.

At this point the reality is he's not going to bring back much. So yes, better to ride it out and hope his offense comes around. He's not gonna depreciate much more than he already has, but could still raise his stock.

Have to say though, I didn't find his 40 points to be one of those situations that made me think "there's a ton more untapped offense with this dude, he's really dynamic/creative/skilled.". He's starting to remind me a bit of Nik Sundstrom ... good player but had no zip to his game.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

And what would be the right price according to you?

Cause frankly, that's all I'd be ready to pay..

Engstrom and Beck.

 

[samsagat]

Kakko and Groulx for Kidney, Engstrom and F.Xhekaj

I'd do that.

But as far as I'm concerned, Struble +3rd has a better value than this package.


P.S.: I totally understand the concept of keeping Kakko at this point for NYR fans.

His value is actually low and there's still a chance he's gonna become something.

But Struble ain't no shit. He's solid defensively, he's very strong and skates well.
He's just caught in a numbers game in MTL.
Kakko has a higher ceiling but as of now, Struble is a more useful player.

 

[samsagat]

Engstrom and Beck.

Ok, I personally think that at this point, Beck alone is at least worth Kakko.

He might not have a high offensive ceiling, but Beck has the pedigree to become a good middle six center and have good probabilities to reach his potential.

He has a clear identity which Kakko doesn't have.

Kakko was drafted to become a top 6 offensive winger, and failed, he's been drafted 5 years ago (as a top 2 pick).

Furthermore, winger is the easiest position to evaluate and develop when it comes to prospects... and still he's in no man's land in terms of his development.

What is he? What's his role?

He never developed into what he was drafted for, he's not a typical role player with defensive acumen, nor a physical player.

My offer was made because he clearly need a change of scenery.

But as I said in an earlier message, I totally get why NYR fans would prefer to keep him at this point.

As he won't fetch much in a trade, keeping him hoping he sees the light might be the team's best option.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Ok, I personally think that at this point, Beck alone is at least worth Kakko.

He might not have a high offensive ceiling, but Beck has the pedigree to become a good middle six center and have good probabilities to reach his potential.

He has a clear identity which Kakko doesn't have.

Kakko was drafted to become a top 6 offensive winger, and failed, he's been drafted 5 years ago (as a top 2 pick).

Furthermore, winger is the easiest position to evaluate and develop as prospects... and still he's in no man's land in terms of his development.

What is he? What's his role?

He never developed into what he was drafted for, he's not a typical role player with defensive acumen, nor a physical player.

My offer was made because he clearly need a change of scenery.

But as I said in an earlier message, I totally get why NYR fans would prefer to keep him at this point.

As he won't fetch much in a trade, keeping him hoping he sees the light might be the team best option.

You recognize Kakko is a PROVEN (so not anyone thinks) 40 point middle six winger who is very good defensively. The only difference in this is center vs. winger, but again Beck is not proven, and Kakko is.

Kakko also doesn't clearly need a change of scenery. He needs to play better hockey. It doesn't work that you put him on a different team, and he's all of a sudden an NHL all-star. His skillset is what it is. If you think you are getting a player with true 2OA upside, you are probably in for a rude awakening once he gets to Montreal. He's not what he was advertised as.

The Rangers have no reason to trade Kakko while his value is the lowest. He's coming off an injury-riddled season. If you want him, you have to pay a higher price than the "buy low" price. The Rangers aren't trying to trade him, so to "go out and get him", it's going to take somewhere between a "buy high" price and an offer we can't refuse.

 

[Michoulicious]

I'd not trade Struble.

I think the guy is a 2nd pair D all day a soon as next year.

 

[samsagat]

Un

You recognize Kakko is a PROVEN (so not anyone thinks) 40 point middle six winger who is very good defensively. The only difference in this is center vs. winger, but again Beck is not proven, and Kakko is.

Kakko also doesn't clearly need a change of scenery. He needs to play better hockey. It doesn't work that you put him on a different team, and he's all of a sudden an NHL all-star. His skillset is what it is. If you think you are getting a player with true 2OA upside, you are probably in for a rude awakening once he gets to Montreal. He's not what he was advertised as.

The Rangers have no reason to trade Kakko while his value is the lowest. He's coming off an injury-riddled season. If you want him, you have to pay a higher price than the "buy low" price. The Rangers aren't trying to trade him, so to "go out and get him", it's going to take an offer we cant refuse.

Yeah, just like Josh Anderson is a proven 27 g 47 pts player.

And very good defensively?

He might be ok, but not the type his coaches put against opposition's best players, in key moments...

As for the change of scenery thing, no, I don't dream about him suddenly becoming the next A. Ovechkin if he came to MTL.

But maybe being on a team that doesn't have a win now mentality, being used differently and being given opportunities he didn't have with NYR, with all their star players occupying the good spots on the PP and cie, yeah maybe he could take a step up... or not...

MTL have been good lately to maximize the development of acquired young players, that were stuck in a lower role with their former team...

But that don't mean they'd be 100% successful doing so neither.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Un


Yeah, just like Josh Anderson is a proven 27 g 47 pts player.

And very good defensively?

He might be ok, but not the type his coaches put against opposition's best players, in key moments...

As for the change of scenery thing, no, I don't dream about him suddenly becoming the next A. Ovechkin if he came to MTL.

But maybe being on a team that doesn't have a win now mentality, being used differently and being given opportunities he didn't have with NYR, with all their star players occupying the good spots on the PP and cie, yeah maybe he could take a step up... or not...

MTL have been good lately to maximize the development of acquired young players, that were stuck in a lower role with their former team...

But that don't mean they'd be 100% successful doing so neither.

I think you have a very warped idea of what Kakko is.

He's never been a talented offensive player at any point in his NHL career. He doesn't have a few magic moments every few games and contributes nothing aside from that. That's not what he is. We never see this player he was advertised.

He's a different player. He's a boring, vanilla defensive winger who has pretty average offensive capabilities. He can't shoot or pass. He has tunnel vision. He's not a smart offensive player. He doesn't skate that well. He has good puck control, puck protection, he's strong in board battles, and positions himself well in relation to the puck when his team doesn't have the puck, but the actual scoring skills are nearly zilch.

He consistently registers good defensive numbers, but he also consistently registers bad offensive analytics, especially the actual scoring, not expected. Literally nothing happens when he's on the ice. His analytics pretty much show he's a deterrent to his teammates offense, but also good for their defense. He's boring, vanilla hockey. A coach's dream grinder middle six player, but obviously not what you hope for out of a 2OA.

 

[dgibb10]

And those comparisons would hold more weight if Kakko was as valuable as those players

Kakko's 22-23 season clears any year of Dach or Newhooks career, especially pre trade.

Just curious, do highly drafted underperforming players magically skyrocket in value retroactively in your mind immediately after your favourite team acquires them, or do you wait until they've actually played a game?

 

[GAGLine]

You won't get much more than this for Kakko.

He had 19 pts in 61 games last year and he's not seen as a young prospect anymore.

I don't care. I'd rather get nothing for him than risk trading him for peanuts and him figuring it out somewhere else.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Don’t let NYR fans come in here with their false outrage and convince you this is somehow unfair to the NYR side. Kakko isn’t worth anything more than a player like Struble at this point, but they have to believe he is due to him being a former 2nd overall pick and the sunk cost fallacy.

This would be a nothing trade for both sides, if we’re being realistic. Kakko is a youngish bottom-six forward and Struble is a youngish bottom-pairing defenseman. I literally would not care one way or the other whether this trade happened or not, and I don’t think it moves the needle in any direction for either side.

But again, NYR fans will tell you otherwise because he was drafted 2nd overall, and in their mind they “lose value” if they trade him for a player like Struble, even though that’s all he’s worth now. Let them pretend. Also, if this deal were to go down, the Habs don’t add anything; it would be a 1-for-1.

 

[UnSandvich]

There are 470 players who've played at least 2000 minutes over the last 3 seasons. Kakko's GA/60 of 1.95 is T-16th. The team doesn't give up goals when he's on the ice.