Kadri player discssion thread.

[Gary Nylund]

If you re-read my post, I said if that is what "HE" expects to be (not me), which is what he has stated more than once. Personally, I have always projected him as a 2nd line centre and nothing has changed.

I did see that's what you said. I don't remember Kadri ever saying that, though it's quite possible he did and I missed it. My apologies.

Anyhow, nothing wrong with setting high expectations for oneself. I know he takes a lot of grief and people like to jump all over him for things he says, me I don't care much what he says, I only care about what he does on the ice. There, we are in agreement, 2nd line centre is what he is, he's established that beyond any reasonable doubt for several years now. #1C is a standard he might meet for short periods of time but in the end, I think he is a #2C, hopefully one of the best #2C's in the game - I think over the last 3 years since he became a regular, that's what he's been.

 

[HockeyCA]

I did see that's what you said. I don't remember Kadri ever saying that, though it's quite possible he did and I missed it. My apologies.

Anyhow, nothing wrong with setting high expectations for oneself. I know he takes a lot of grief and people like to jump all over him for things he says, me I don't care much what he says, I only care about what he does on the ice. There, we are in agreement, 2nd line centre is what he is, he's established that beyond any reasonable doubt for several years now. #1C is a standard he might meet for short periods of time but in the end, I think he is a #2C, hopefully one of the best #2C's in the game - I think over the last 3 years since he became a regular, that's what he's been.

I don't think he's a #2 center period, but I guess you could try and argue that he's a #2 center on a piss poor hockey team, which I guess is what the Leafs have practically been for his entire tenure here.

Your not going deep into the playoffs with Kadri playing important minutes in a playoff series deep into May.. But I'm sure you disagree, since you've been saying this player belongs in the conversation with the upper echelon players of the league for the last year or so. Don't you remember? His advanced analytics compare favorably with the likes of Zetterberg and Tavares. His statistical production is not equivalent, well, because.. just because. Your too invested in one position to change it now, and I understand that. Kadri will probably be moved by the deadline, or the draft, and then you can say the Leafs let go of a good one and you know more than Lou Lamerello.

Here comes the SNARK.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Since Kadri became a regular 3 years ago, he has averaged .668 PPG which projects to a 55 points season. Last season, 55 points would have put him in a tie for 28th among centres with Bergeron, ROR, Duchene and Stepan.

Not bad for a #3C who should be "cut loose".

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't think he's a #2 center period, but I guess you could try and argue that he's a #2 center on a piss poor hockey team, which I guess is what the Leafs have practically been for his entire tenure here.

Your not going deep into the playoffs with Kadri playing important minutes in a playoff series deep into May.. But I'm sure you disagree, since you've been saying this player belongs in the conversation with the upper echelon players of the league for the last year or so. Don't you remember? His advanced analytics compare favorably with the likes of Zetterberg and Tavares. His statistical production is not equivalent, well, because.. just because. Your too invested in one position to change it now, and I understand that. Kadri will probably be moved by the deadline, or the draft, and then you can say the Leafs let go of a good one and you know more than Lou Lamerello.

Here comes the SNARK.

Nope, never said that. You're free to post your fantasies here if you enjoy that sort of thing. Shouldn't be hard for you to find and quote one of these posts if I've been saying it "for the last year or so". But you can't quote what I never said can you.

No offence but at you.

 

[RLF]

I did see that's what you said. I don't remember Kadri ever saying that, though it's quite possible he did and I missed it. My apologies.

Anyhow, nothing wrong with setting high expectations for oneself. I know he takes a lot of grief and people like to jump all over him for things he says, me I don't care much what he says, I only care about what he does on the ice. There, we are in agreement, 2nd line centre is what he is, he's established that beyond any reasonable doubt for several years now. #1C is a standard he might meet for short periods of time but in the end, I think he is a #2C, hopefully one of the best #2C's in the game - I think over the last 3 years since he became a regular, that's what he's been.

No, nothing wrong with high expectations. At some point though, it can't be just talk, if he believes it, he has to start showing it. I am not referring to my expectations, I am referring to what he publically says are his. I have read and heard more than a few of these kind of quotes from Nazem.

“But one of my goals, as I mature and get stronger and come more familiar with the league, I want to be one of the best players in the league. Not just on our team. I think that’s a very realistic goal for myself. Now when that expectation is going to come is a different story.â€

He was given a clean slate and Babcock has even said he expects Kadri to be elite this year (trying to give him his stamp of approval so to speak). So the opportunity is there that he has said he wants, but he hasn't exactly ran with it was my point. He has shown he can handle a top 6 role, but at 25 now and over 370 games at the pro level, he has far from shown to be one of the best in the league that he says he strives for. Personally, I think he should stop making these kind of statements and being a little more humble wouldn't hurt him, it would help him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No, nothing wrong with high expectations. At some point though, it can't be just talk, if he believes it, he has to start showing it. I am not referring to my expectations, I am referring to what he publically says are his. I have read and heard more than a few of these kind of quotes from Nazem.

“But one of my goals, as I mature and get stronger and come more familiar with the league, I want to be one of the best players in the league. Not just on our team. I think that’s a very realistic goal for myself. Now when that expectation is going to come is a different story.”

He was given a clean slate and Babcock has even said he expects Kadri to be elite this year (trying to give him his stamp of approval so to speak). So the opportunity is there that he has said he wants, but he hasn't exactly ran with it was my point. He has shown he can handle a top 6 role, but at 25 now and over 370 games at the pro level, he has far from shown to be one of the best in the league that he says he strives for. Personally, I think he should stop making these kind of statements and being a little more humble wouldn't hurt him, it would help him.

I agree. I would like him better if shut his mouth more, showed a little humility when he did open it and just concentrated on playing hockey. Still, what he does on the ice is what really counts so I'm willing to live with a few quotes I don't particularly like. And in his defence, in this market, everything gets overblown (though admittedly that's also more reason to keep his mouth shut).

 

[leafs in five]

Since Kadri became a regular 3 years ago, he has averaged .668 PPG which projects to a 55 points season. Last season, 55 points would have put him in a tie for 28th among centres with Bergeron, ROR, Duchene and Stepan.

Not bad for a #3C who should be "cut loose".

this guy has no place on the cup contending team that exists in this crazy hypothetical axis of fantasy and reality that proves whatever argument against Kadri that one might be inclined to make.

it is fantasy in the sense that this cup contending team does not exist currently, or stand any chance of existing in the foreseeable future, real in that we already know for a fact which players will not be on it.

 

[leafs in five]

the same tortured logic was used to justify moves like the Colborne trade. our top five ********* team in the league just didn't have the space to fit this 23 year old centre, former first round pick .

 

[Shwaguy*]

Let him talk as much as he wants it doesn't mean anything/

 

[leafs in five]

does any of this really mean anything

 

[Snow Dog]

No, nothing wrong with high expectations. At some point though, it can't be just talk, if he believes it, he has to start showing it. I am not referring to my expectations, I am referring to what he publically says are his. I have read and heard more than a few of these kind of quotes from Nazem.

“But one of my goals, as I mature and get stronger and come more familiar with the league, I want to be one of the best players in the league. Not just on our team. I think that’s a very realistic goal for myself. Now when that expectation is going to come is a different story.”

He was given a clean slate and Babcock has even said he expects Kadri to be elite this year (trying to give him his stamp of approval so to speak). So the opportunity is there that he has said he wants, but he hasn't exactly ran with it was my point. He has shown he can handle a top 6 role, but at 25 now and over 370 games at the pro level, he has far from shown to be one of the best in the league that he says he strives for. Personally, I think he should stop making these kind of statements and being a little more humble wouldn't hurt him, it would help him.

His attitude and big mouth is what "soured"me about Kadri.When his on ice play matches his words or his words start matching his play I may come around to believe that #42 has worth to the team.

 

[RLF]

I agree. I would like him better if shut his mouth more, showed a little humility when he did open it and just concentrated on playing hockey. Still, what he does on the ice is what really counts so I'm willing to live with a few quotes I don't particularly like. And in his defence, in this market, everything gets overblown (though admittedly that's also more reason to keep his mouth shut).

What he does on the ice is not a #1 either though
and yes, he should stop with the "I want to be one of the best in the league" stuff and tone it down a bit more along the lines of " I am just trying to get better everyday and help my team win, if I do that, the results will come."

 

[HockeyCA]

Nope, never said that. You're free to post your fantasies here if you enjoy that sort of thing. Shouldn't be hard for you to find and quote one of these posts if I've been saying it "for the last year or so". But you can't quote what I never said can you.

No offence but at you.

"For those that are even a little bit with the times, this site shows that this year, for ES production among forwards with 500 minutes played, Kadri ranks 97th, Zetterberg 199th. That is a fact. Before you get all angry friend, of course this doesn't "prove" that Kadri>Zetterberg. It does however suggest that people saying Zetterberg>>>>>>>>>>>Kadri are not fond of facts. At least not any facts that cloud their personal fantasy of how the world is."

"After 60 games played, Kadri's ES production is 1.78 P/60. Here's the link:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

103rd in the NHL for all forwards. Not awesome or anything but not too bad. Same as the great Joe Pavelski, just ahead of the great Ovechkin and way way ahead of Zetterberg. Yikes I though maybe they forgot about him but nope, you have to scroll down to find him in the 202 spot but he's there alright.

But I guess I sinned now, I mean I'm not supposed to mention Kadri and Zetterberg in the same sentence together. I'm still waiting for an explanation why that is though."

 

[81Leafs50]

Kadri is garbage. I will bet this is his last season with the Leafs. Bozak is better all around. Kadri holds on to the puck too long. Does not playmake. Has on drag move which is not NHL #1 center calibre.

Just plain garbage.

 

[Snow Dog]

"For those that are even a little bit with the times, this site shows that this year, for ES production among forwards with 500 minutes played, Kadri ranks 97th, Zetterberg 199th. That is a fact. Before you get all angry friend, of course this doesn't "prove" that Kadri>Zetterberg. It does however suggest that people saying Zetterberg>>>>>>>>>>>Kadri are not fond of facts. At least not any facts that cloud their personal fantasy of how the world is."

"After 60 games played, Kadri's ES production is 1.78 P/60. Here's the link:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

103rd in the NHL for all forwards. Not awesome or anything but not too bad. Same as the great Joe Pavelski, just ahead of the great Ovechkin and way way ahead of Zetterberg. Yikes I though maybe they forgot about him but nope, you have to scroll down to find him in the 202 spot but he's there alright.

But I guess I sinned now, I mean I'm not supposed to mention Kadri and Zetterberg in the same sentence together. I'm still waiting for an explanation why that is though."

If you had a choice which one of the players you mentioned would you want on your team?

 

[TheCLAM]

Since Kadri became a regular 3 years ago, he has averaged .668 PPG which projects to a 55 points season. Last season, 55 points would have put him in a tie for 28th among centres with Bergeron, ROR, Duchene and Stepan.

Not bad for a #3C who should be "cut loose".

That close to PPG season really bumped up his totals on the shortened season. Kadri is a step-below these guys IMO I don't see the top-line potential. I personally see a very average second line-center, who will score points in bunches. This does not necessarily mean he's useless, however, if things don't change this season it may be time to look for other solutions.

 

[deletethis]

the same tortured logic was used to justify moves like the Colborne trade. our top five ********* team in the league just didn't have the space to fit this 23 year old centre, former first round pick .

You're lamenting the loss of Colborne. Holland is here. He's approximately equivalent and doesn't have chronic wrist/hand problems.

 

[hfdshdh]

The last couple of pages of this thread are awfully revealing. It seems apparent now that some people are actively digging to find fault with Kadri because they don't like what he says in interviews.

 

[Gary Nylund]

"For those that are even a little bit with the times, this site shows that this year, for ES production among forwards with 500 minutes played, Kadri ranks 97th, Zetterberg 199th. That is a fact. Before you get all angry friend, of course this doesn't "prove" that Kadri>Zetterberg. It does however suggest that people saying Zetterberg>>>>>>>>>>>Kadri are not fond of facts. At least not any facts that cloud their personal fantasy of how the world is."

"After 60 games played, Kadri's ES production is 1.78 P/60. Here's the link:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

103rd in the NHL for all forwards. Not awesome or anything but not too bad. Same as the great Joe Pavelski, just ahead of the great Ovechkin and way way ahead of Zetterberg. Yikes I though maybe they forgot about him but nope, you have to scroll down to find him in the 202 spot but he's there alright.

But I guess I sinned now, I mean I'm not supposed to mention Kadri and Zetterberg in the same sentence together. I'm still waiting for an explanation why that is though."

Are you suffering from reading comprehension issues?

Middle six? If you say so. I see him as an avg to above avg #2C so I don't think you're giving him enough credit. JMHO.

Editing to add I see that as a level it's hard if not impossible to argue with. Now that we have a real coach, I could see him upping his value. Not saying it's sure to happen but it's a definite possibility.

And in anticipation of further comments, please note I didn't claim he's a true #1C, or that he's as good as Tavares, or that he's almost as good as Zetterberg yadayadayada. He is however better than Bozak, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

This one is more recent, just a few days ago. Again - do you have reading comprehension issues?

That close to PPG season really bumped up his totals on the shortened season. Kadri is a step-below these guys IMO I don't see the top-line potential. I personally see a very average second line-center, who will score points in bunches. This does not necessarily mean he's useless, however, if things don't change this season it may be time to look for other solutions.

And last season brought down his totals. That's why I thought it fair to use the last 3 seasons.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The last couple of pages of this thread are awfully revealing. It seems apparent now that some people are actively digging to find fault with Kadri because they don't like what he says in interviews.

His interviews are definitely no better than 4th line calibre.

 

[Deez Nuts]

"For those that are even a little bit with the times, this site shows that this year, for ES production among forwards with 500 minutes played, Kadri ranks 97th, Zetterberg 199th. That is a fact. Before you get all angry friend, of course this doesn't "prove" that Kadri>Zetterberg. It does however suggest that people saying Zetterberg>>>>>>>>>>>Kadri are not fond of facts. At least not any facts that cloud their personal fantasy of how the world is."

"After 60 games played, Kadri's ES production is 1.78 P/60. Here's the link:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

103rd in the NHL for all forwards. Not awesome or anything but not too bad. Same as the great Joe Pavelski, just ahead of the great Ovechkin and way way ahead of Zetterberg. Yikes I though maybe they forgot about him but nope, you have to scroll down to find him in the 202 spot but he's there alright.

But I guess I sinned now, I mean I'm not supposed to mention Kadri and Zetterberg in the same sentence together. I'm still waiting for an explanation why that is though."

You can use these stats in various ways to spin things to suit an agenda.

Using only last years statistics, using the same criteria mentioned - Kadri ranks 141. Grabovski and Holland are in the same ballpark.

Using the last two years, he ranks 153.

If you want to include the year where he had a head start on the rest of the NHL, played on the 3rd line and scored against third liners and bottom pairing D that is fine. But perhaps incuding all of these stats instead of only the one that makes Kadri look the best would be a good idea.

I find Kadri just digs his own grave with his dumb ass comments, suspension for off ice issues, repeated head shots, inconcistency and selfish play.

If he didn't have the worst plus minus in the NHL three games into the year, maybe be the haters would have less ammunition to trash him.

This guy is a serviceable 2nd line C. He was drafted 7 years ago and is plagued with the same issues he has had since junior. Considering the Leafs new regime is all about character and hard work, and that those things are not usually attached to Kadri I just can't see Babcock wanting a guy like this. He may have skill but he lacks almost everything else and the sooner his is shipped, I think the Leafs will be better off.

 

[Pookie]

Is point production a "useless stat"? Because Kadri has three consecutive seasons of top six point production.

By what criteria isn't he one?

"... Of (declining) point production..."

That's the rub. What do you have in Kadri? A stock going up, one that will stay flat or one that will decline?

You have to make the call this summer or sooner as his next deal can't be a bridge deal as he would become UFA when that ended.

So it's either long term deal or trade. How do you realistically decide to go long term with declining production and off ice suspension if his play continues to be uninspiring?

I personally think the risk is too great even if he plays well. 6 months just isn't enough time to undo the history.

 

[hfdshdh]

And last season brought down his totals. That's why I thought it fair to use the last 3 seasons.

How can anyone not see that if you arbitrarily removed the most unproductive 40-game stretch of Kadri's career from consideration, you could make his PPG average look better, too? It's so overtly dishonest.

 

[HockeyCA]

Are you suffering from reading comprehension issues?



This one is more recent, just a few days ago. Again - do you have reading comprehension issues?



And last season brought down his totals. That's why I thought it fair to use the last 3 seasons.

Just posting your own words.. Your first post seems to be implying the "facts" illustrate that maybe the gap between Zetterberg (again, a future hall of famer) and Kadri is not so large. You emphasize the use of the word "fact" in your post.

The second post, again your own words, which says "'m still waiting for why that is though," to me anyways, and maybe I'm just not a capable reader (right?) implies that your waiting for someone else to explain to you why the comparison should be disregarded.

And I already said you were already backtracking, which triggered the venomous snark I have come to expect from your posts.

At best, giving you every benefit of the doubt (and I don't), your position on this has been inconsistent..

 

[Pookie]

Since Kadri became a regular 3 years ago, he has averaged .668 PPG which projects to a 55 points season. Last season, 55 points would have put him in a tie for 28th among centres with Bergeron, ROR, Duchene and Stepan.

Not bad for a #3C who should be "cut loose".

Oh geez

IF he scored/assisted more he would have actually put up 55 points.

He didn't score or assist more. He put up 39.

Highlighting who he could have tied IF he scored more seems silly.

If Bernier saves as much as he did over his 2 year average, he moves up with Jonathan Quick.