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July 1st - Free Agent Extravaganza Part III

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OnlyRevolutions said:
Sather's obsessed with assembling a team of 2003 all-stars, eh? Man...just when it seems like the interest is moving towards getting younger (Staal, Brass, Miller, Kreider, Moore), we go and get Dan Boyle and (supposedly) have interest in Staal and Thornton. With the prospects cupboard looking pretty empty and a lack of first rounders for 3 years in a row, this organization is essentially screwing up in a lot of categories.

Moving Brassard+ for an aging Thornton (never mind his cap hit) really handicaps us cap-wise. So few free agents have come to New York and actually produced as advertised.


In summary: :help:
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Giving Brassard 5M or close when he's not a #2 isn't smart either
 
Lundsanity30 said:
Giving Brassard 5M or close when he's not a #2 isn't smart either
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Posted this in an earlier thread.

I don't understand why a 45 point 2C is terrible. The Top 30 Centers in the NHL last year scored 54 points. Derick Brassard was 48th among centers in points with 45. That puts him squarely in the middle of the 2C pack.

Furthermore, only 14 teams in the NHL had 2 centers that were ranked ahead of Brass. That's according to the NHL.com at least. Some of those "centers" probably played wing, like O'Reilly (who's on there).

Those teams are:
PIT 2 (Crosby, Malkin)
ANA 2 (Getlzaf, Bonino)
SJ 3 (Thornton, Pavelski , Couture)
LA 2 (Kopitar, Carter)
COL 4 (Duchene, O'Reilly, MacKinnon, Stastny)
BOS 3 (Krejci, Bergeron, Soderberg)
NYI 2 (Tavares, Nielsen)
OTT 2 (Spezza, Turris)
CBJ 2 (Johansen, Dubinsky)
NSH 2 (Smith, Fisher)
TB 2 (Filppula, Johnson)
TOR 2 (Kadri, Bozak)
CGY 2 (Hudler, Cammalleri)
PHX 2 (Ribeiro, Vermette)

NYR 2 (Stepan, Brassard)

Of those 14 teams, 6 missed the playoffs (NYI, OTT, NSH, TOR, CGY, PHX). Of the remaining 8 playoff teams - 1 won the Stanley Cup (LA), 2 made the Conference Finals (NYR-LA), 5 made the second round (BOS-NYR-PIT-ANA-LA), and 4 were bounced in the first round (COL, CBJ, TB, SJ).

The rest of the playoff teams had only 1 center who scored more points than Derick Brassard.

CHI - Toews (Conference Finals)
DAL - Seguin (Round 1)
MON - Desharnais (Conference Finals)
MIN - Koivu (Round 2)
STL - Backes (Round 1)
PHI - Giroux (Round 1)
DET - Legwand (not even half a year?)

We need to stop acting like this is a huge deal if Brassard only scores 45 points. It seems that 45 points would be enough for a 2C.

And the whole "we need to replace his 51 points" - as others alluded to, Kreider's production is likely to increase, whoever we get to play 3C will score some, MSL's will be there for a full season, and even if he doesn't light the world on fire, whatever he puts up that outproduces Callahan of last year would go to the 51 needed to replace Richards. Increases maybe for Zucc and Stepan.

I'm not that concerned about Brass as a 2C. I think he's really underrated and can still blossom. Go ahead...call me crazy.
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xxx - xxx - xxx
xxx - xxx - xxx
xxx - xxx - xxx
xxx - xxx - xxx

xxx - xxx
xxx - xxx
xxx - xxx

xxx
xxx

Congratulations! I have just awarded you an expansion team. Your teams depth chart is listed above. Just click on the xxx spots to reveal the names.

(You nervously click on the starting goaltender spot)

Voila! Your starting goaltender is Henrik Lundqvist!

(You jump up and down cheering louder than you did when you read that Gomez was traded to the Habs)

(Feeling lucky, you click on the first line center spot)

Voila! Your first line center is Derek Stepan!

(You feel _________)

****Fill in the blank above to determine whether Derek Stepan is a good number 1 center****
 
Brassard is a fine 2C.

Stepan is a very good 2C.

The problem is neither of them are legitimate 1C's.

Look around the league.

Crosby+Malkin, Seguin+Spezza, Thornton+Pavelski+Couture, Duchene+O'Reilly+MacKinnon, Kopitar+Carter+Stoll+Richards, E.Staal+J.Staal, Stamkos+Filppula, Giroux+Couturier+Schenn+Umberger+Lecavalier, Krejci+Bergeron+Soderberg, the list goes on.

Then there's us with Stepan+Brassard+______ ??? J.T. Miller? who we HOPE is capable of the 3rd line center role this season? Dom Moore is a great 4th line center, but we do not have the legitimate FIRST LINE center that all those teams have, and some have two of them, and some even three (SJ is ridiculous at center with Thornton, Couture, and Pavelski, and Marleau was actually a natural center as well)

With our goaltending and defense as strong as it is, if we could finally get that ACTUAL FIRST LINE CENTER, we'd be among the top teams going into next season. As of right now, we are simply NOT, and what we did a month ago doesn't mean **** anymore.
 
LundqvistsEvilTwin said:
if we had our first id say trade everyone... free up lots of cap space, tank, draft Mcdavid, make a public statement that we will pay Toews, Kane the $12m they want, and then sign them both :handclap:

its so easy in EA Sports:yo:
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35% of the cap to two players, lol. Absolutely not.
 
AHB said:
Look at the numbers, Brassard is right in line with being a 2C.
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He's a ~45 point defensive question mark. He's not all that effective at ES.

I'm not a big fan of his, and I definitely don't consider him an effective 2C.
 
If we want this team to compete for a Stanley Cup over the next few years, BB's probably right. Brassard is a 2C on an average team, not a good one.
 
JeffMangum said:
Brassard is not a 2C.

Stepan is way better than Brassard.
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Brassard is certainly a middle of the road two-center and a terrific three-center.

JeffMangum said:
He's a ~45 point defensive question mark. He's not all that effective at ES.

I'm not a big fan of his, and I definitely don't consider him an effective 2C.
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He does need to improve at even strength, but he's certainly capable of doing so. I am a fan of his, he's steps up in the playoffs, and he's good on the PP. I would like him to create more at even strength, but I don't think his career is at a point where he is what he is yet.

Fitzy said:
If we want this team to compete for a Stanley Cup over the next few years, BB's probably right. Brassard is a 2C on an average team, not a good one.
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Maybe, as of now. We don't have the luxury of not taking a risk. I'm not trading Brassard+Staal or Brassard+Miller to find a better C. We don't have the NHL-ready talent depth nor salary cap room to make it work, unless you make a fantasy league trade like 77 proposes.
 
Brassard might rank with 2Cs for total points, but he was 68th among centers in ES points last season. Then again, he was only getting 13 ES minutes per game. I don't think we can make an adequate judgment on him yet, in that regard.
 
Brassard is not a capable 2C without players like Stepan and Richards to insulate him, IMO.

If Miller struggles out of the gate/throughout the year, I think Brassard does, as well. Hopefully Zuccarello takes another step and continues to help carry him along.
 
SeventySeven said:
Brassard is a fine 2C.

Stepan is a very good 2C.

The problem is neither of them are legitimate 1C's.

Look around the league.

Crosby+Malkin, Seguin+Spezza, Thornton+Pavelski+Couture, Duchene+O'Reilly+MacKinnon, Kopitar+Carter+Stoll+Richards, E.Staal+J.Staal, Stamkos+Filppula, Giroux+Couturier+Schenn+Umberger+Lecavalier, Krejci+Bergeron+Soderberg, the list goes on.

Then there's us with Stepan+Brassard+______ ??? J.T. Miller? who we HOPE is capable of the 3rd line center role this season? Dom Moore is a great 4th line center, but we do not have the legitimate FIRST LINE center that all those teams have, and some have two of them, and some even three (SJ is ridiculous at center with Thornton, Couture, and Pavelski, and Marleau was actually a natural center as well)

With our goaltending and defense as strong as it is, if we could finally get that ACTUAL FIRST LINE CENTER, we'd be among the top teams going into next season. As of right now, we are simply NOT, and what we did a month ago doesn't mean **** anymore.
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Stepan is a 1C. When are you going to understand that? First off, half of the players you listed are wingers.

Secondly, what about say, Chicago? Who are their Cs. Look at how many playoff teams had only ONE center with more points than Derick Brassard.

Those teams acquired those centers through the draft. How many of those players weren't top 10 overall picks? The ones that aren't are just not that good and would be our 3C. You can't acquire a C of that caliber without completely depleting your team and farm, and we have already depleted our picks and our prospect pool is weak. We don't have the assets to acquire one of the good players you listed without making our NHL team significantly worse. 80% of those players will cost Kreider or Stepan+.

Why is Kreider viewed as this future Power Forward 30 goal scorer untouchable, but Stepan, who is 24 and has 4 full seasons under his belt already where he has developed into a semi-elite defensive player averaging 0.67 PPG is done developing and is a 2C at best for the rest of his career. I don't get it. Kreider hasn't done **** compared to Stepan, and Kreider is viewed as this unstoppable force.

Back to Brassard though, I don't get it. How many times do we have to make an ill-advised trade with short-term implications with a youngish player who has tons of talent only to watch the import fail to play up to expectations and the export develop into the player we wish we had acquired. Round and round we go, searching for players. Look at the players who came up with our team and developed: Kreider, Stepan, McDonagh (trade, but still came up with us), Staal, Dubinsky, Callahan, Girardi, Lundqvist, Zuccarello, Anisimov, etc.

So many of you regret the Nash deal, and even some the MSL deal. Now we want to go through it again? Let it play out, see what we have, and make a move in season if needed. We are good enough now to be above .500 by Christmas, and have some games under our belt to assess where certain players are in their development. I prefer to bring in younger players cheap now for depth, guys like Mueller, who isn't young but has some untapped potential.

Whatever. I'm not saying Stepan-Brassard is the best C situation for us to be in, but it isn't NEARLY as bad as many of you are making it out to be, and you're knee-jerk reacting to losing players by hoping we make a big move that may or may not work out, and based on history, is unlikely to work out as we hope.
 
Tawnos said:
Brassard might rank with 2Cs for total points, but he was 68th among centers in ES points last season. Then again, he was only getting 13 ES minutes per game. I don't think we can make an adequate judgment on him yet, in that regard.
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Yeah, which is why I'm saying if he gets the same PP time and more minutes at ES he may even score in the upper echelon of 2Cs.

JeffMangum said:
Brassard is not a capable 2C without players like Stepan and Richards to insulate him, IMO.

If Miller struggles out of the gate/throughout the year, I think Brassard does, as well. Hopefully Zuccarello takes another step and continues to help carry him along.
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It's a fair concern. Unfortunately, I think it's one that we should assess before making any brash moves. We may be pleasantly surprised
 
More minutes at ES = tougher competition, though. Which is what I'm concered about. He doesn't even put up great numbers getting fairly sheltered minutes at ES.
 
Can verify @acall04 rumors about #Thornton Rangers have indeed placed calls to SJ. SJ mulling over fact of trading captain/salary retention.
Rangers will announce signing of Ryan Carter shortly. Heard deal is in place, paperwork just needs to be signed

dont know how accurate this **** is but here you go
https://twitter.com/acall04- heres the link
 
The center situation is far from horrible. At least we don't have what we had in 09-10: Christensen, Drury, Anisimov, and Boyle.
 
rangers91 said:
Can verify @acall04 rumors about #Thornton Rangers have indeed placed calls to SJ. SJ mulling over fact of trading captain/salary retention.
Rangers will announce signing of Ryan Carter shortly. Heard deal is in place, paperwork just needs to be signed

dont know how accurate this **** is but here you go
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What does this mean, "can verify." What are you verifying? That someone has a twitter account @acall04?
 
JeffMangum said:
More minutes at ES = tougher competition, though. Which is what I'm concered about. He doesn't even put up great numbers getting fairly sheltered minutes at ES.
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Another good point. He does seem to struggle at ES for some reason, but again, another year has gone by, more experience, some chemistry with Zucc. We have to let it play out. ~$4-4.2M for him for 3-4 years is not a terrible contract even if he performs exactly as he has in the past. We could always move that contract in the future. If he steps up and scores 55 points or so, we'll have a bargain.
 
jerseyjinx94 said:
Another good point. He does seem to struggle at ES for some reason, but again, another year has gone by, more experience, some chemistry with Zucc. We have to let it play out. ~$4-4.2M for him for 3-4 years is not a terrible contract even if he performs exactly as he has in the past. We could always move that contract in the future. If he steps up and scores 55 points or so, we'll have a bargain.
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Brass is heading into his age 27 season. He's been the same guy basically since 2010-11. If he were going to evolve into a better all around player he would've done it already. The fact that he's our second best center is a testament to how thin we are down the middle all the way through the system.
 
Zil said:
Brass is heading into his age 27 season. He's been the same guy basically since 2010-11. If he were going to evolve into a better all around player he would've done it already. The fact that he's our second best center is a testament to how thin we are down the middle all the way through the system.
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Yes, I understand this. Players don't always stop developing by age 27. I understand why you think that way, and it's a valid opinion. I just disagree and think he has more to offer than what he has. Also, the fact that he's our second best center isn't the best situation to be in but it's far from the worst. There's 15-16 teams in the NHL who don't have a second line center as good as him.
 
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