Seravalli: Josh Norris

[Rude Dog]

Would love him on the Leafs if the Sens could retain the shoulder

 

[Wpgpage]

Why are the Jets doing that?

Move a player that the org has clearly identified as a winger for a center. Once Cole's current deal is up if he continues on his current trajectory of being a mid 50 point player you are probably talking about a cap hit in the 6-7 mil range on his next deal so the contact is at least somewhat similar form 25/26 onwards. Technically the same amount of team control 5 years.

I can't say I would be super in favor of such a deal but as a hypothetical I think it's relatively balanced.

 

[RickyLafleur]

Pens should be all over this.

 

[Barsky]

Cole Perfetti?

Omg, yes, deal

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

He is getting traded back to the Sharks tonight, and he will have to switch teams in the arena. They will get a tight shot before the game of Brady leaning on his stick, staring off as Norris walks down the hall, a single tear streams down his face as his new teammate Cody Ceci places a hand on his back to console him - which Brady annoyed nudges off.

 

[Barsky]

Why are the Jets doing that?

Quiet you voice of reason

 

[Huffer]

Move a player that the org has clearly identified as a winger for a center. Once Cole's current deal is up if he continues on his current trajectory of being a mid 50 point player you are probably talking about a cap hit in the 6-7 mil range on his next deal so the contact is at least somewhat similar form 25/26 onwards. Technically the same amount of team control 5 years.

I can't say I would be super in favor of such a deal but as a hypothetical I think it's relatively balanced.

Perfetti is younger, putting up similar points, and his next contract will still likely be less than (or at least close to) Norris's. Perfetti also has 1 year left at 3.25, and then they likely try and go long term. So there will be more control with Perfetti as well. And he has no current shoulder issues that will likely follow him for his career.
The only plus in Norris's side is playing centre. And the Jets have Lambert and Yager (and possibly Lucius if he can stay healthy), as possible upcoming centres.

I wouldn't be against them looking into Norris, but it would have to be cheap and possibly with some retention for it to make sense for them to take on all that risk. At that point the Sens likely just keep the player and keep hoping he stays healthy.

 

[Wpgpage]

I agree a trade is unlikely given his current value, worth way more to the Sens as a player. If he has a clean year plays close to 82 games and put up 50-60 his entire value proposition changes.

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

I wonder if a Schmaltz - Norris 1:1 swap could benefit each team? I think Norris is the more productive player at the moment and is younger but certainly has the injury concerns and a lengthier contract.

I think they would both just insert at each others respective positions on the other's team. 2C for 2C.

I think Ottawa would be disappointed if they want Schmaltz as the 2c. He's fine as a fill in, but not as a primary center. He's a RW, and a good one, albeit streaky at times. He's worth what 2rw are worth.

Norris is about the same player, with a different skill set which makes him a much better center, which increases his value. Now he has a longer contact left and injury concerns, that hurts his value and may make a 1:1 viable, but a healthy Norris is far more valuable.

 

[Duffy13]

Pens should be all over this.

Man, seriously... Where would Norris even line up in our stacked roster? I mean, do we have to start icing 5 lines now? Acciari, Nieto, Hayes, are roster monoliths and CANNOT come out of the line up... Our Centers are set in stone!!!! So ridiculous.

 

[KevinRedkey]

I mnetioned Farabee earlier, and a Flyers fan liked it.

Anyone else want to chime in with their thoughts on that?

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

Would love him on the Flames.. I feel he fits our timeline, but unless it's Huby or Kadri going back (with retention?) I don't see how it could happen.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Pens should be all over this.

Okay write up a trade idea. I'm ready to listen.

 

[SnS]

I mnetioned Farabee earlier, and a Flyers fan liked it.

Anyone else want to chime in with their thoughts on that?

I don’t think a straight across deal covers the risk with Norris.

I’ve also given up on Farabee. I am convinced he’s never gonna score again. So I’m not sure why the Senators would do that trade. But I’m also not sure why the Flyers would do the trade because of Norris’ shoulder.

 

[Figgy44]

Would love him on the Flames.. I feel he fits our timeline, but unless it's Huby or Kadri going back (with retention?) I don't see how it could happen.

It seems like a Kadri for Norris basis of discussion is worth investigating based on a Sens fan earlier. But I don't know if that means enough Sens fans think it's worth discussing.

Kadri might do it because he'd be closer to home (Toronto).
Calgary IIRC is looking to add a middle 6 C though, so not sure how moving Kadri will affect those plans. (Centre backbone of Backlund, Norris, Zary? Another deal for another middle 6 C?)

I also assume Ottawa wants reasonable value or they'll take the risk on Norris. They aren't necessarily paying to get out of his contract. Kadri offers value now, but also has the same contract value concerns as Norris. But Kadri's concerns are more value vs contract in later years, not all or nothing like Norris is. Ottawa might prefer someone who has more NHL GP/ year to year average than ceiling upside vs Calgary might be happier with younger player + higher ceiling upside with potentially lower GP. Swapping these risks might work for both teams.

It might be doable.


As a Flames fan, I'd kinda hope for a little bit of insurance that we can get a minimum amount of games from Norris... Something like if Norris plays less than X amount of games for the first 2-3 years Sens owe any 2nd or 3rd in those seasons he doesn't play enough games (Sens can trade for the pick to fulfil the conditions if needed).

Conditions something like, if Norris plays more than 40 regular season games, no picks transfer. If less than 40 regular season games played 3rd. If less than 20 regular season games played pick upgrades from a 3rd to 2nd.

To ensure Flames get a pick, if somehow Sens don't have a pick they want to transfer to fulfil conditions, pick can be deferred a year and bumped up a round if somehow they can't get a pick in that season to fulfil the conditions (Sens unlikely to exercise this option). Just a back up clause in case of something weird like Sens don't have a pick or want to retain the pick for an offer sheet.

The intention of the "any pick" is also so that picks don't get locked up in insane conditions like the Monahan trade conditions. As a Flames fan, I don't wish such crazy conditions that lock up picks on any other team.

 

[KevinRedkey]

I don’t think a straight across deal covers the risk with Norris.

I’ve also given up on Farabee. I am convinced he’s never gonna score again. So I’m not sure why the Senators would do that trade. But I’m also not sure why the Flyers would do the trade because of Norris’ shoulder.

What would be the ask in terms of 'futures' if it was Farabee and Frost for Norris?

 

[SnS]

What would be the ask in terms of 'futures' if it was Farabee and Frost for Norris?

You’re asking the wrong Flyers fan.

I’m insanely high on Frost and hate that Torts has jerked him around the way he has.

I wouldn’t move Frost at all(obviously within reason)

 

[biturbo19]

I wonder if a Schmaltz - Norris 1:1 swap could benefit each team? I think Norris is the more productive player at the moment and is younger but certainly has the injury concerns and a lengthier contract.

I think they would both just insert at each others respective positions on the other's team. 2C for 2C.

If they offered that to Ottawa, the Sens should probably jump on it tbh. Schmaltz is so much cheaper on the cap, even if the actual dollars are backloaded. However...plugging him in at 2C is probably not realistic. I haven't really seen Schmaltz playing Center consistently over a long period of time in a bunch of years now. I'd consider him more or less strictly a Winger at this point...who can sub in as an "emergency Center". But i wouldn't want to pencil him in as an expected 2C. Basically the same deal as Giroux, who is also more or less a full-time Winger at this point...even if he can still take some draws and has played Center in the past.

Which is part of what makes this situation even more complicated for Ottawa. The teams that might be willing and able to take on the risk of that Norris contract...probably aren't going to have all that much in the way of Centers to ship back the other way. So the Sens will have to basically lean on the hope that Pinto can take the reins there, or find another Top-6C themselves, somewhere else.

 

[biturbo19]

It seems like a Kadri for Norris basis of discussion is worth investigating based on a Sens fan earlier. But I don't know if that means enough Sens fans think it's worth discussing.

Kadri might do it because he'd be closer to home (Toronto).
Calgary IIRC is looking to add a middle 6 C though, so not sure how moving Kadri will affect those plans. (Centre backbone of Backlund, Norris, Zary? Another deal for another middle 6 C?)

I also assume Ottawa wants reasonable value or they'll take the risk on Norris. They aren't necessarily paying to get out of his contract. Kadri offers value now, but also has the same contract value concerns as Norris. But Kadri's concerns are more value vs contract in later years, not all or nothing like Norris is. Ottawa might prefer someone who has more NHL GP/ year to year average than ceiling upside vs Calgary might be happier with younger player + higher ceiling upside with potentially lower GP. Swapping these risks might work for both teams.

It might be doable.


As a Flames fan, I'd kinda hope for a little bit of insurance that we can get a minimum amount of games from Norris... Something like if Norris plays less than X amount of games for the first 2-3 years Sens owe any 2nd or 3rd in those seasons he doesn't play enough games (Sens can trade for the pick to fulfil the conditions if needed).

Conditions something like, if Norris plays more than 40 regular season games, no picks transfer. If less than 40 regular season games played 3rd. If less than 20 regular season games played pick upgrades from a 3rd to 2nd.

To ensure Flames get a pick, if somehow Sens don't have a pick they want to transfer to fulfil conditions, pick can be deferred a year and bumped up a round if somehow they can't get a pick in that season to fulfil the conditions (Sens unlikely to exercise this option). Just a back up clause in case of something weird like Sens don't have a pick or want to retain the pick for an offer sheet.

The intention of the "any pick" is also so that picks don't get locked up in insane conditions like the Monahan trade conditions. As a Flames fan, I don't wish such crazy conditions that lock up picks on any other team.

I think the problem with all these sort of "conditions" on a Norris trade, is...well, obviously they make things a little complicated for starters. But the other big issue is, if the Sens are dealing Norris away...it'd be primarily to free themselves of all the uncertainty and "risk" of his contract. Whereas, these sort of conditions would keep them tethered to at least some of the risk involved. Especially if we're talking about conditions spanning multiple years into the future. It kind of defeats a lot of the purpose of dealing him in the first place.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Would love him on the Flames.. I feel he fits our timeline, but unless it's Huby or Kadri going back (with retention?) I don't see how it could happen.

Norris & Zub for Weegar

Not likely lol, but sure would love to pry Weegar out of there.

 

[Figgy44]

I think the problem with all these sort of "conditions" on a Norris trade, is...well, obviously they make things a little complicated for starters. But the other big issue is, if the Sens are dealing Norris away...it'd be primarily to free themselves of all the uncertainty and "risk" of his contract. Whereas, these sort of conditions would keep them tethered to at least some of the risk involved. Especially if we're talking about conditions spanning multiple years into the future. It kind of defeats a lot of the purpose of dealing him in the first place.

True. My intent was trying to figure out how to share a portion of the risk so the acquiring team doesn't have all the risk. Valid points that the way to do it is very complex and likely would mean GM aren't too interested in figuring it out. That's fair.

Norris & Zub for Weegar

Not likely lol, but sure would love to pry Weegar out of there.

I think Ottawa has the pieces that could interest Calgary in moving Weegar in a mutually beneficial trade, but this wouldn't be it for me.

I wonder if salary can be a huge portion of the exchanged value? I was thinking Chabot based on some of the of season comments about him. (I apologize if he's no longer in that overpaid realm). But if the point is moving Norris, $16 mil is probably a ridiculous amount of contract to move. Insane blockbuster if it happened.

But again, it's probably too complicated and thus unlikely, but I'd actually be somewhat curious what that might look like that both teams might potentially nod to.

 

[BlueGoose27]

You’re asking the wrong Flyers fan.

I’m insanely high on Frost and hate that Torts has jerked him around the way he has.

I wouldn’t move Frost at all(obviously within reason)

What’s the word on Forester? I read where Farabee, Frost, Brink and Forester were possibly being shopped around. I knew about Frost and Farabee, heard something on Brink, but first I heard Foresters name. Article mentions how he’s in Torts doghouse, which is crazy…thought Torts was high on him?

 

[RickyLafleur]

Okay write up a trade idea. I'm ready to listen.

TBH, I don't want a single player from the Pens roster. I'd consider a Karlsson reunion, though, at the right price. I'm not sure if Norris could be in that deal, though.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think Ottawa has the pieces that could interest Calgary in moving Weegar in a mutually beneficial trade, but this wouldn't be it for me.

I wonder if salary can be a huge portion of the exchanged value? I was thinking Chabot based on some of the of season comments about him. (I apologize if he's no longer in that overpaid realm). But if the point is moving Norris, $16 mil is probably a ridiculous amount of contract to move. Insane blockbuster if it happened.

But again, it's probably too complicated and thus unlikely, but I'd actually be somewhat curious what that might look like that both teams might potentially nod to.

Weegar is probably my favorite player in the league not on the Sens, so I'd love it if they could get something done, and he were interested. The NTC could be an issue.

I am a big Chabot fan, so might be the wrong Sens fan to talk to, but he's played much better this year so far. Tough one. I think it makes sense on paper, but makes it less intriguing. Ideally, we'd be using Zub's spot for Weegar, not giving up Chabot.

It may not be the best match because Ottawa is thin on futures to offer and I'd think that's the Flames' priority, but Weegar feels like the perfect fit. Easy to say about such a good player though, lots of teams would be interested.

 

[Snuggs]

Red Wings trade F Jonatan Berggren, LHD Erik Gustafsson, G Trey Augustine, and their 1st round pick(top 10 protected till settled.).

Senators trade C Josh Norris(25%).

Best I got as a Wings fan.

Plastic shoulder scares me... worth a chance though. From Michigan, be a feel-good story.