John Tavares Discussion

[francis246]

i was pulling for the team to win just like i was pulling for the team to win in the first 5 games where JT was barely visible

i remember thinking when i was in my teens and 20's that eventually somehow the Leafs would figure it out and win a cup or two , i'm now well into my 50's and understand how hard it is to acquire a young cup quality core to build around like the one we have

but hey , who's gives a damn because it's Johnny's world and we just live in it and if AM and the kids we have never bring home a cup who gives a damn because the main goal is to fluff Johnny and to hell with winning

The fact that you still blame 10+ years of just pure playoff failure on JT is the most delusional but funniest thing I’ve seen on this board.

The playoff failure is bigger than the salary cap, it’s bigger than one individual player. It’s an organizational flaw. Something they need to address internally. I don’t think the roster matters at this point it is a mental hurdle. If as an organization they can’t get past it mentally it doesn’t matter which player you bring in. They will always shit their pants when up in the first round

 

[hotpaws]

Then in game 7 when Tavares scored the game tying goal that got called back… you were still cheering for us, yes?

Basically, what I’m asking is… did your hatred for Tavares start after we lost the series… or did it flare up when JT scored those goals in games 6 and 7.

it's not hatred , if you want to waste your time you can search my posts from when he was with the Islanders years before he was up to be a ufa and a potential Leaf to see how i viewed him as a player

i always thought he was talented/good player but no where near the elite franchise C he keeps being described as and that's fine but what bothers me is how every teammate he's had gets tossed under the bus to deflect any criticism away from him

 

[hotpaws]

The fact that you still blame 10+ years of just pure playoff failure on JT is the most delusional but funniest thing I’ve seen on this board.

The playoff failure is bigger than the salary cap, it’s bigger than one individual player. It’s an organizational flaw. Something they need to address internally. I don’t think the roster matters at this point it is a mental hurdle. If as an organization they can’t get past it mentally it doesn’t matter which player you bring in. They will always shit their pants when up in the first round

i never blamed 10 plus years of failure on JT , don't know why you made that up . i blame overpaying to sign a good but not elite player in a non position of need at that time for costing us the opportunity to fill the lineup with higher quality players

and unlike yourself i believe this core can win a rd or two , winning the cup , that's what i don't see happening

but taking account the bolded it seems you believe group is too mentally fragile to advance past the first rd and want to go searched earth and sell them all off and start again , or this just another excuse to defend JT ?

 

[francis246]

i never blamed 10 plus years of failure on JT , don't why you made that up . i blame overpaying to sign a good but not elite player in a non position of need at that time for costing us the opportunity to fill the lineup with higher quality players

and unlike yourself i believe this core can win a rd or two , winning the cup , that's what i don't see happening

but taking account the bolded it seems you believe group is too mentally fragile to advance past the first rd and want to go searched earth and sell them all off and start again , or this just another excuse to defend JT ?

Did I say I want them to go scorched earth? This core is good enough to win. But until they fix the mental block they face in the first round they likely won’t win. I don’t want to see any of the core moves. I want Kyle Dubas to address the root problem of the playoff failure. It isn’t a roster construction problem, it isn’t even a goaltender problem. I think Dubas should say end of July everyone back in Toronto we are going to address this issue head on.

Let’s talk as a group, let’s meet with the right professionals and figure out exactly why we can’t close games out in the playoffs as opposed to just saying we are going to be better next year and everyone goes their separate ways. They need to come up with tangible and attainable ways to get over the hurdle and how they plan on winning games in that situation.

 

[Racer88]

Did I say I want them to go scorched earth? This core is good enough to win. But until they fix the mental block they face in the first round they likely won’t win. I don’t want to see any of the core moves. I want Kyle Dubas to address the root problem of the playoff failure. It isn’t a roster construction problem, it isn’t even a goaltender problem. I think Dubas should say end of July everyone back in Toronto we are going to address this issue head on.

Let’s talk as a group, let’s meet with the right professionals and figure out exactly why we can’t close games out in the playoffs as opposed to just saying we are going to be better next year and everyone goes their separate ways. They need to come up with tangible and attainable ways to get over the hurdle and how they plan on winning games in that situation.

Interesting concept and it would certainly show would wants to 100% buy in.
I wonder how Matthews ,Marner and Willy would think about something like that.

 

[Gallagbi]

Did I say I want them to go scorched earth? This core is good enough to win. But until they fix the mental block they face in the first round they likely won’t win. I don’t want to see any of the core moves. I want Kyle Dubas to address the root problem of the playoff failure. It isn’t a roster construction problem, it isn’t even a goaltender problem. I think Dubas should say end of July everyone back in Toronto we are going to address this issue head on.

Let’s talk as a group, let’s meet with the right professionals and figure out exactly why we can’t close games out in the playoffs as opposed to just saying we are going to be better next year and everyone goes their separate ways. They need to come up with tangible and attainable ways to get over the hurdle and how they plan on winning games in that situation.

What do you think tangible and attainable means in these situations?

Looks and feels like theyre putting themselves in the right situations, but unable to close.

 

[hotpaws]

Did I say I want them to go scorched earth? This core is good enough to win. But until they fix the mental block they face in the first round they likely won’t win. I don’t want to see any of the core moves. I want Kyle Dubas to address the root problem of the playoff failure. It isn’t a roster construction problem, it isn’t even a goaltender problem. I think Dubas should say end of July everyone back in Toronto we are going to address this issue head on.

Let’s talk as a group, let’s meet with the right professionals and figure out exactly why we can’t close games out in the playoffs as opposed to just saying we are going to be better next year and everyone goes their separate ways. They need to come up with tangible and attainable ways to get over the hurdle and how they plan on winning games in that situation.

you must be a teacher with all this touch feely team building workshop stuff . lol

I agree there's a mental aspect to the game but to use it as the main reason for our losses is absurd , A much bigger reason for our losses lately is teams are limiting our strengths and exposing our weaknesses as the series go on that's why we aren't able to close them out .

if you look at T-Bays series wins you'll see it's not always there top guys coming through in the crunch and all teams want to win but sometimes a team will keep going with the same guys at key times due to stubbornness or because they feel obligated due to what they're paying them even if they aren't performing well and it costs them the series

for me it comes down to roster construction which has limited our success since i don't believe you can spend 33m on three forwards especially when 1 is no where near elite and still have money left over to fill out a quality lineup unless of course you have a fair number of players playing well above there pay grade which is very difficult to do

 

[Nylanderthal]

of course they would have been better just like how he made us so much better , lol

i'll say it again , i'm freaking amazed at how so many people feel the need to defend this guy , it's truly freaking shocking especially since every other player on our team gets ripped including Mathers if there play drops for even a few games

It’s not “a need to defend the guy” it’s responding to erroneous and outright inaccurate comments on a message board. That’s literally the point of this place, sorry your opinions aren’t widely accepted

 

[hotpaws]

It’s not “a need to defend the guy” it’s responding to erroneous and outright inaccurate comments on a message board. That’s literally the point of this place, sorry your opinions aren’t widely accepted

don't really care if my opinions are widely accepted especially when many more of mine are proven correct compared to the true fans that believe every more the team makes is perfect and there's just some mysterious entity keeping us from winning the cup every year

i still remember how much i got flamed for not believing Burke's accelerated retool/rebuild whatever his followers called it was going to lead us to the cup , lol , good times

do me a favor and let me know what you went by back then since i'm too lazy to search so i can remember if you loved Burke more than you do Dubie

 

[All Mod Cons]

Interesting concept and it would certainly show would wants to 100% buy in.
I wonder how Matthews ,Marner and Willy would think about something like that.

Thought that was what Tavares' cottage was for? What was the point of that meeting?

 

[francis246]

What do you think tangible and attainable means in these situations?

Looks and feels like theyre putting themselves in the right situations, but unable to close.

Full commitment to blocking shots, hitting and finishing every check. Driving the net to name a few

 

[Racer88]

Thought that was what Tavares' cottage was for? What was the point of that meeting?

Beer and lobster

 

[francis246]

you must be a teacher with all this touch feely team building workshop stuff . lol

I agree there's a mental aspect to the game but to use it as the main reason for our losses is absurd , A much bigger reason for our losses lately is teams are limiting our strengths and exposing our weaknesses as the series go on that's why we aren't able to close them out .

if you look at T-Bays series wins you'll see it's not always there top guys coming through in the crunch and all teams want to win but sometimes a team will keep going with the same guys at key times due to stubbornness or because they feel obligated due to what they're paying them even if they aren't performing well and it costs them the series

for me it comes down to roster construction which has limited our success since i don't believe you can spend 33m on three forwards especially when 1 is no where near elite and still have money left over to fill out a quality lineup unless of course you have a fair number of players playing well above there pay grade which is very difficult to do

I am a teacher and also a nationally certified coach. I’ve also played college and pro in my sport. Posted it before I currently also coach with a different sport organization (not hockey) with the team Ontario program and working my way up to the junior national team. I truly have a good grasp on high performance, it’s pretty evident that this is a mental issue with them. They choke up in game 7’s it’s kind of crazy.

And right it’s been depth guys, those depth guys are not making huge money.

 

[Gallagbi]

Full commitment to blocking shots, hitting and finishing every check. Driving the net to name a few

Pretty sure the Leafs blocked more shots than TB in the series. Leafs and Tampa are 6th and 7th in hits per game right now, so seems similar.

 

[francis246]

Pretty sure the Leafs blocked more shots than TB in the series. Leafs and Tampa are 6th and 7th in hits per game right now, so seems similar.

Again just suggestions, when I watch Colorado they are doing it all game and not giving an inch

 

[thusk]

Full commitment to blocking shots, hitting and finishing every check. Driving the net to name a few

Exactly and thats exactly why i think leafs should trade nylander... its everything he never do on the ice

 

[hotpaws]

Beer and lobster

better than hookers and blow like they use to do back in the day

 

[egd27]

Did I say I want them to go scorched earth? This core is good enough to win. But until they fix the mental block they face in the first round they likely won’t win. I don’t want to see any of the core moves. I want Kyle Dubas to address the root problem of the playoff failure. It isn’t a roster construction problem, it isn’t even a goaltender problem. I think Dubas should say end of July everyone back in Toronto we are going to address this issue head on.

Let’s talk as a group, let’s meet with the right professionals and figure out exactly why we can’t close games out in the playoffs as opposed to just saying we are going to be better next year and everyone goes their separate ways. They need to come up with tangible and attainable ways to get over the hurdle and how they plan on winning games in that situation.

Didn't they just do that at JT's cottage before the season started?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Switch matthews with tavares... sure matthews never reach 60 goal and i dont think he still reach 50...Matthews started to score much more when he stop playing with Nylander and started playing with Marner... keefe tried to sent back nylander with matthews and bunting this season and Matthews played his worst hockey of the season. Tavares was playing with marner, he was great... he started playing with nylander, he stop to score goal and get his 2 worst season in term of goal since his rookies... when he switch with Marner, he was fantastic...

But yeah the problem youre right should be Tavares and Matthews!!!!!

All you're saying is that Marner is better than Nylander. I don't think anyone disputes that.

Bottom line is that Marner can only play with one of them, or at least only one at a time. So do you play him where he does the most good, or use him to prop up Tavares, to try to justify that contract?

Maybe a better solution is to continue playing Matthews and Marner together, and put Nylander and Tavares on separate lines.

 

[thusk]

All you're saying is that Marner is better than Nylander. I don't think anyone disputes that.

Bottom line is that Marner can only play with one of them, or at least only one at a time. So do you play him where he does the most good, or use him to prop up Tavares, to try to justify that contract?

Maybe a better solution is to continue playing Matthews and Marner together, and put Nylander and Tavares on separate lines.

What i said is a player who:
-Not very good in forecheck because hes just do everything he can to avoid hit
- dont go on traffic
- very bad in backchecking
-almost never block shot
-cheating all game long to get breakaway 2v1 or 3v2...
- playing soft in his defensive zone

Its kind of player pretty hard to play with...

Nylander is a tremendous skill player and if he would work as much marner or matthews maybe he could be as good... but its not the case.

 

[francis246]

Didn't they just do that at JT's cottage before the season started?

Is JT a sports psychologist? And it was just a few of them, this would be a whole organization exercise facilitated by a professional who can help them dive deeper.

 

[Racer88]

better than hookers and blow like they use to do back in the day

Healthier but not as much fun

 

[hotpaws]

Healthier but not as much fun

todays guys are choir boys compared to what went on before , can't blame them since they can't do anything without it being all over social media

i work with a guy who's older brother played in the 80's , they had a real good time back then to put it nicely , lol

 

[Racer88]

todays guys are choir boys compared to what went on before , can't blame them since they can't do anything without it being all over social media

i work with a guy who's older brother played in the 80's , they had a real good time back then to put it nicely , lol

I bet he has stories to tell

 

[notDatsyuk]

What i said is a player who:
-Not very good in forecheck because hes just do everything he can to avoid hit
- dont go on traffic
- very bad in backchecking
-almost never block shot
-cheating all game long to get breakaway 2v1 or 3v2...
- playing soft in his defensive zone

Its kind of player pretty hard to play with...

Nylander is a tremendous skill player and if he would work as much marner or matthews maybe he could be as good... but its not the case.

That was not what you said in the post I responded to, and your comments above don't seem to be a response to my post that you quoted.

My point is still: don't break up the pairing that works, break up the pairing that doesn't.