John Tavares Discussion

[Nylanderthal]

Tavares doesn’t really fit into the Leafs style of play at all. He would be more at home on one of the more grinding St. Louis Blues lines with a ROR or David Perron than the speed and skill the Leafs want to play.

Perrons a ufa could just sign him and pair him with JT

 

[WTFMAN99]

Perrons a ufa could just sign him and pair him with JT

He's always signed with the Blues every chance he's been given to sign a contract anywhere in the league.

He also said he wants to go back and the Blues want him back. The only thing is they've got Kyrou, Thomas, ROR, Tarasenko and Barbashev contracts coming up. Depends on who they're prioritizing.

 

[thusk]

I don’t blame Tavares for holding back Nylander. I blame his contract for holding up the whole window of contention because he brings about $3 million less value than he’s paid for and having so many excuses for being a poor fit.

If he need to work for 2 on defensive side, forecheck, drive the net or everything where you need to work ...

The poor fit is nylander... watch avs and tampa... did you see guy playing soft defensivly, doing everything to avoid hit, didn't battle on corner to get the puck back, didn't go on traffic? No because you dont win with that kind of player...

 

[Stephen]

If he need to work for 2 on defensive side, forecheck, drive the net or everything where you need to work ...

The poor fit is nylander... watch avs and tampa... did you see guy playing soft defensivly, doing everything to avoid hit, didn't battle on corner to get the puck back, didn't go on traffic? No because you dont win with that kind of player...

Nylander makes 63% of Tavares’ salary, outscored him this year on the same line and is the line driver on that line. So yeah, I would generally agree with you that he has some big flaws and traits I don’t like, but generally it’s a work in progress with a lot that does work.

What I don’t think is right is we’re talking about a $11 million player in his own thread and yet we still need to finger point somewhere else.

 

[thusk]

Nylander makes 63% of Tavares’ salary, outscored him this year on the same line and is the line driver on that line. So yeah, I would generally agree with you that he has some big flaws and traits I don’t like, but generally it’s a work in progress with a lot that does work.

What I don’t think is right is we’re talking about a $11 million player in his own thread and yet we still need to finger point somewhere else.

Make 63% but didn't made half of what tavares do he the ice...

Nylander without good player, hes nothing else tha kind of Jonathan Drouin with a best shot...

Tavares without Nylander still the same player...

You look look at the stats, how many nylander put tavares in trouble in defensive zone by cheating and didn't gave any option pass for tavares or leafs d? How many goal leafs allowed because nylander just stop playing defensive side? Do you want to win on regular season or on playoff

Yes his number is pretty good and it will work on regular season and at time on playoff but when the game will start to be tight, you dont have any space on the ice and opponent just minimze scoring chance of the rush, Nylander become more harmful than helpful

Free points he get last 3 playoff

Vs columbus he get 1 goal 2 assist at 5on 5... his 2 assist he did absolutly nothing.

Vs mtl
4 goal 2 assist
Goal#1 : he avoid contact and go for noreason behind the net with foligno fighting in front the net. Because of foligno battle, ge just had to send the puck on an empty net goal

Goal #2 weak happening because galcheyuk, chiarot and anderson created a screen and just never see the puck

#3 empty net goal with and galchemyuk who did everything on the play...

# good goal when the leafs almost already elimated... overal he get 4 goal 2 assist and made 1 good play on those 6 goal

Tampa

2 goal 4 assist at 5 on 5

His first goal a good play when the game was already over at 5-1 with 8 minute left

His goal #2 was a great shot

He made one great play game #6

1 assist was a missed pass with hit tavares skate

2 free assist he did absolutly nothing

1great pass to JT.

Last 3 years he scored 7 goal get 8 assist

7 of assist was play ne did nothing
1 missing pass
1 great play

Of his 9 goal
2 empty net
1 weak screen shot
2 goal when game was already over

WoW NYLANDER OUTSCORED tavares by making 3 great play to really help his team in 3 year

 

[CelticDruid]

Make 63% but didn't made half of what tavares do he the ice...

Nylander without good player, hes nothing else tha kind of Jonathan Drouin with a best shot...

Tavares without Nylander still the same player...

You look look at the stats, how many nylander put tavares in trouble in defensive zone by cheating and didn't gave any option pass for tavares or leafs d? How many goal leafs allowed because nylander just stop playing defensive side? Do you want to win on regular season or on playoff

Yes his number is pretty good and it will work on regular season and at time on playoff but when the game will start to be tight, you dont have any space on the ice and opponent just minimze scoring chance of the rush, Nylander become more harmful than helpful

Free points he get last 3 playoff

Vs columbus he get 1 goal 2 assist at 5on 5... his 2 assist he did absolutly nothing.

Vs mtl
4 goal 2 assist
Goal#1 : he avoid contact and go for noreason behind the net with foligno fighting in front the net. Because of foligno battle, ge just had to send the puck on an empty net goal

Goal #2 weak happening because galcheyuk, chiarot and anderson created a screen and just never see the puck

#3 empty net goal with and galchemyuk who did everything on the play...

# good goal when the leafs almost already elimated... overal he get 4 goal 2 assist and made 1 good play on those 6 goal

Tampa

2 goal 4 assist at 5 on 5

His first goal a good play when the game was already over at 5-1 with 8 minute left

His goal #2 was a great shot

He made one great play game #6

1 assist was a missed pass with hit tavares skate

2 free assist he did absolutly nothing

1great pass to JT.

Last 3 years he scored 7 goal get 8 assist

7 of assist was play ne did nothing
1 missing pass
1 great play

Of his 9 goal
2 empty net
1 weak screen shot
2 goal when game was already over

WoW NYLANDER OUTSCORED tavares by making 3 great play to really help his team in 3 year

You're not biased in the least!

 

[TheBigFour]

Make 63% but didn't made half of what tavares do he the ice...

Nylander without good player, hes nothing else tha kind of Jonathan Drouin with a best shot...

Tavares without Nylander still the same player...

You look look at the stats, how many nylander put tavares in trouble in defensive zone by cheating and didn't gave any option pass for tavares or leafs d? How many goal leafs allowed because nylander just stop playing defensive side? Do you want to win on regular season or on playoff

Yes his number is pretty good and it will work on regular season and at time on playoff but when the game will start to be tight, you dont have any space on the ice and opponent just minimze scoring chance of the rush, Nylander become more harmful than helpful

Free points he get last 3 playoff

Vs columbus he get 1 goal 2 assist at 5on 5... his 2 assist he did absolutly nothing.

Vs mtl
4 goal 2 assist
Goal#1 : he avoid contact and go for noreason behind the net with foligno fighting in front the net. Because of foligno battle, ge just had to send the puck on an empty net goal

Goal #2 weak happening because galcheyuk, chiarot and anderson created a screen and just never see the puck

#3 empty net goal with and galchemyuk who did everything on the play...

# good goal when the leafs almost already elimated... overal he get 4 goal 2 assist and made 1 good play on those 6 goal

Tampa

2 goal 4 assist at 5 on 5

His first goal a good play when the game was already over at 5-1 with 8 minute left

His goal #2 was a great shot

He made one great play game #6

1 assist was a missed pass with hit tavares skate

2 free assist he did absolutly nothing

1great pass to JT.

Last 3 years he scored 7 goal get 8 assist

7 of assist was play ne did nothing
1 missing pass
1 great play

Of his 9 goal
2 empty net
1 weak screen shot
2 goal when game was already over

WoW NYLANDER OUTSCORED tavares by making 3 great play to really help his team in 3 year

LOL nylander was better than tavares this year. you can say make up whatever, but most people would agree that nylander was the better player.

i still think there is more that tavares can provides especially making 5 mill more than nylander.

 

[Stephen]

Make 63% but didn't made half of what tavares do he the ice...

Nylander without good player, hes nothing else tha kind of Jonathan Drouin with a best shot...

Tavares without Nylander still the same player...

You look look at the stats, how many nylander put tavares in trouble in defensive zone by cheating and didn't gave any option pass for tavares or leafs d? How many goal leafs allowed because nylander just stop playing defensive side? Do you want to win on regular season or on playoff

Yes his number is pretty good and it will work on regular season and at time on playoff but when the game will start to be tight, you dont have any space on the ice and opponent just minimze scoring chance of the rush, Nylander become more harmful than helpful

Free points he get last 3 playoff

Vs columbus he get 1 goal 2 assist at 5on 5... his 2 assist he did absolutly nothing.

Vs mtl
4 goal 2 assist
Goal#1 : he avoid contact and go for noreason behind the net with foligno fighting in front the net. Because of foligno battle, ge just had to send the puck on an empty net goal

Goal #2 weak happening because galcheyuk, chiarot and anderson created a screen and just never see the puck

#3 empty net goal with and galchemyuk who did everything on the play...

# good goal when the leafs almost already elimated... overal he get 4 goal 2 assist and made 1 good play on those 6 goal

Tampa

2 goal 4 assist at 5 on 5

His first goal a good play when the game was already over at 5-1 with 8 minute left

His goal #2 was a great shot

He made one great play game #6

1 assist was a missed pass with hit tavares skate

2 free assist he did absolutly nothing

1great pass to JT.

Last 3 years he scored 7 goal get 8 assist

7 of assist was play ne did nothing
1 missing pass
1 great play

Of his 9 goal
2 empty net
1 weak screen shot
2 goal when game was already over

WoW NYLANDER OUTSCORED tavares by making 3 great play to really help his team in 3 year

Big question here is, how does Nylander bear the brunt of the responsibility for Tavares and his personal struggles? I think of the Patrice Bergeron David Pastrnak relationship and I see a leader and captain laying down Selke level play and he elevates a young offensive player year over year in pursuit of consistent team success. Why don’t we get that from JT at double the salary? We got 35 goals and 80 points out of our 4th best offensive option. He’s got flaws but he’s doing his job.

 

[thusk]

Big question here is, how does Nylander bear the brunt of the responsibility for Tavares and his personal struggles? I think of the Patrice Bergeron David Pastrnak relationship and I see a leader and captain laying down Selke level play and he elevates a young offensive player year over year in pursuit of consistent team success. Why don’t we get that from JT at double the salary? We got 35 goals and 80 points out of our 4th best offensive option. He’s got flaws but he’s doing his job.

Pastrnak is not affraid to hit or be hit, he always working extremely hard, he came backcheck a lot.. thats the diffence

Number of nylander hit last 3 season... 40 number of pastrnak hit just this season 73...

Nylander is something between phil kessel and jonathan drouin...

LOL nylander was better than tavares this year. you can say make up whatever, but most people would agree that nylander was the better player.

i still think there is more that tavares can provides especially making 5 mill more than nylander.

On playoff Tavares was by Far better than nylander and its not even close...

Do you want player to looking better on regular season or on playoff?

 

[Stephen]

Pastrnak is not affraid to hit or be hit, he always working extremely hard, he came backcheck a lot.. thats the diffence

Number of nylander hit last 3 season... 40 number of pastrnak hit just this season 73...

Nylander is something between phil kessel and jonathan drouin...


On playoff Tavares was by Far better than nylander and its not even close...

Do you want player to look good on regular season or on playoff?

We are not playing Leaf Survivor so there’s no need to deep dive on Nylander’s issues when talking about why get don’t get the value we should out of Tavares on any given night. Unless the subtext of the whole conversation is that our $11 million captain can’t figure it out with an 80 point winger and we constantly need to make excuses for him.

 

[thusk]

We are not playing Leaf Survivor so there’s no need to deep dive on Nylander’s issues when talking about why get don’t get the value we should out of Tavares on any given night. Unless the subtext of the whole conversation is that our $11 million captain can’t figure it out with an 80 point winger and we constantly need to make excuses for him.

Switch matthews with tavares... sure matthews never reach 60 goal and i dont think he still reach 50...Matthews started to score much more when he stop playing with Nylander and started playing with Marner... keefe tried to sent back nylander with matthews and bunting this season and Matthews played his worst hockey of the season. Tavares was playing with marner, he was great... he started playing with nylander, he stop to score goal and get his 2 worst season in term of goal since his rookies... when he switch with Marner, he was fantastic...

But yeah the problem youre right should be Tavares and Matthews!!!!!

 

[hotpaws]

Switch matthews with tavares... sure matthews never reach 60 goal and i dont think he still reach 50...Matthews started to score much more when he stop playing with Nylander and started playing with Marner... keefe tried to sent back nylander with matthews and bunting this season and Matthews played his worst hockey of the season. Tavares was playing with marner, he was great... he started playing with nylander, he stop to score goal and get his 2 worst season in term of goal since his rookies... when he switch with Marner, he was fantastic...

But yeah the problem youre right should be Tavares and Matthews!!!!!

JT did play with Marner this season and did very little . Also JT doesn’t play any differently regardless of who he plays with , all he can do now with his poor skating is hang around below the hash marks and wait fir someone to create for him .

Mitch is better than Willie at creating scoring opportunities but that’s better served setting up the games best goal scorer than trying to make Tavares look like he isn’t cooked .

Willie looks best and is most effective driving his own line and not having to try to create for his center , unfortunately when they separated Willie and JT people started to notice how JT is the problem and not Nylander so Keefe moved him back .

 

[thusk]

JT did play with Narner this season and did very little . Also JT doesn’t play any differently regardless of who he plays with , all he can do now with his poor skating is hang around below the hash marks and wait fir someone to create for him .

Mitch is better than Willie at creating scoring opportunities but that’s better served setting up the games best goal scorer than trying to make Tavares look like he isn’t cooked .

Willie looks best and is most effective driving his own line and not having to try to create for his center , unfortunately when they separated Willie and JT people started to notice how JT is the problem and not Nylander so Keefe moved him back .

Tavares never be a great skater during all his carreer and played that way his entire life... so for you he needed moulson, okposo, parenteau or whatever making play for him? Yes youre right he really need good player to make play for him to look good, he cant create nothing by himself. Who nylander made look better when he was playing with? Kerfoot? Not really better than when he was with Avs...


And probably explain why Matthews started to suck when he started to play with nylander and why he had more succes with Kase than with Nylander? Probably Matthews who was not enought good to follow Nylander...

 

[hotpaws]

Tavares never be a great skater during all his carreer and played that way his entire life... so for you he needed moulson, okposo, parenteau or whatever making play for him? Yes youre right he really need good player to make play for him to look good, he cant create nothing by himself. Who nylander made look better when he was playing with? Kerfoot? Not really better than when he was with Avs...


And probably explain why Matthews started to suck when he started to play with nylander and why he had more succes with Kase than with Nylander? Probably Matthews who was not enought good to follow Nylander...

The Islanders revolved the entire team around padding JT’s stats and it got them no where , 3 playoff appearances and 1 rd win in Johnny’s 9 years there .

The second he left the team I kept hearing was a bunch of Ahl’ers poor Johnny had to carry on his back made the playoffs 3 straight years while getting out of the first rd all 3 years as well as getting to the conference finals twice and taking Tampa to 7 games last season .

But sure we’ll go with it’s everybody holding poor Johnny back since we’re probably stuck with him for 3 more years .

 

[Ziggdiezan]

JT did play with Narner this season and did very little . Also JT doesn’t play any differently regardless of who he plays with , all he can do now with his poor skating is hang around below the hash marks and wait fir someone to create for him .

Mitch is better than Willie at creating scoring opportunities but that’s better served setting up the games best goal scorer than trying to make Tavares look like he isn’t cooked .

Willie looks best and is most effective driving his own line and not having to try to create for his center , unfortunately when they separated Willie and JT people started to notice how JT is the problem and not Nylander so Keefe moved him back .

Nylander creates lots of offense off the rush while JT is still crossing his own blueline...

Just a bad fit. Agree with others that having 2 grinder style player with some decent hands and finish probably gets the best out of JT.

 

[thusk]

The Islanders revolved the entire team around padding JT’s stats and it got them no where , 3 playoff appearances and 1 rd win in Johnny’s 9 years there .

The second he left the team I kept hearing was a bunch of Ahl’ers poor Johnny had to carry on his back made the playoffs 3 straight years while getting out of the first rd all 3 years as well as getting to the conference finals twice and taking Tampa to 7 games last season .

But sure we’ll go with it’s everybody holding poor Johnny back since we’re probably stuck with him for 3 more years .

Lmao NYI started to be a good team when young d started to be ready to play a top 4 role and they didn't need to use boychuk and leddy as top pair... i talk about pelech, puloch and mayfield for sure...

NYI didn't switch from worst to best defensive team in NHL because he lost an offensive player...everything changed because young D became ready...

 

[hotpaws]

Lmao NYI started to be a good team when young d started to be ready to play a top 4 role and they didn't need to use boychuk and leddy as top pair... i talk about pelech, puloch and mayfield for sure...

NYI didn't switch from worst to best defensive team in NHL because he lost an offensive player...everything changed because young D became ready...

yup that's it , the exact second JT left they went from being an AHL caliber team except for him to being loaded with players , lol and now it's the Leafs who are so devoid of talent that they can't give him a couple of decent wingers excluding Marner to play with

i've never seen a player who's not only had endless excuses made for him but who's above any criticism regardless of how he plays , it truly shocks me how someone can watch him play and act like he's the only perfect player in the history of the game

 

[hotpaws]

Nylander creates lots of offense off the rush while JT is still crossing his own blueline...

Just a bad fit. Agree with others that having 2 grinder style player with some decent hands and finish probably gets the best out of JT.

Willie seems to play better when he just goes out there and does his thing without feeling the need to defer or maybe it's just changing his game to cater to his center . When JT went down against Mon he just went out and played to his abilities/strengths and if that was looking for his shot or making a play he just did it without thinking about whether his C involved in the play .

JT has always played more like a winger , in NY he use to blow the zone early while his wingers took care of most of the defensive responsibilities in there end . To get the most out of him he needs to shift to the wing and we need to find him a solid 2 way C and winger with some skill and grit . The problem is not only where we find the cap to get these players but also the fact no team would go out of their way to cater to a 2nd line player .

this is AM/Marner's team and we should be building the team to cater to them , if JT can't find a way to be effective with the players/role we give him then he should waive and go to a team that can put him in a role that's better suited to whatever strengths he has left

 

[francis246]

yup that's it , the exact second JT left they went from being an AHL caliber team except for him to being loaded with players , lol and now it's the Leafs who are so devoid of talent that can't give him a couple of decent wingers excluding Marner to play with

i've never seen a player who's not only had endless excuses made for him but who's above any criticism regardless of how he plays , it truly shocks me how someone can watch him play and act like he's the only perfect player in the history of the game

I can’t take you seriously man. They would have been even better the following year with JT. JT would have thrived in a trotz system.

Tavares has gone past the 1st round with the islanders so idk why you keep pushing this narrative that he can’t win rounds. He’s won rounds with shittier players than the leafs have right now.

 

[francis246]

Willie seems to play better when he just goes out there and does his thing without feeling the need to defer or maybe it's just changing his game to cater to his center . When JT went down against Mon he just went out and played to his abilities/strengths and if that was looking for his shot or making a play he just did it without thinking about whether his C involved in the play .

JT has always played more like a winger , in NY he use to blow the zone early while his wingers took care of most of the defensive responsibilities in there end . To get the most out of him he needs to shift to the wing and we need to find him a solid 2 way C and winger with some skill and grit . The problem is not only where we find the cap to get these players but also the fact no team would go out of their way to cater to a 2nd line player .

this is AM/Marner's team and we should be building the team to cater to them , if JT can't find a way to be effective with the players/role we give him then he should waive and go to a team that can put him in a role that's better suited to whatever strengths he has left

Again false JT rarely blew the zone in NYI, just goes to show I know you never watched islanders games. JT literally carried his line mates on the island. Ask moulson, okposo, parenteau, Bailey how important he was to their careers. Single handed my got those 4 guys paid

 

[hotpaws]

I can’t take you seriously man. They would have been even better the following year with JT. JT would have thrived in a trotz system.

Tavares has gone past the 1st round with the islanders so idk why you keep pushing this narrative that he can’t win rounds. He’s won rounds with shittier players than the leafs have right now.

of course they would have been better just like how he made us so much better , lol

i'll say it again , i'm freaking amazed at how so many people feel the need to defend this guy , it's truly freaking shocking especially since every other player on our team gets ripped including Mathers if there play drops for even a few games

 

[hotpaws]

Again false JT rarely blew the zone in NYI, just goes to show I know you never watched islanders games. JT literally carried his line mates on the island. Ask moulson, okposo, parenteau, Bailey how important he was to their careers. Single handed my got those 4 guys paid

it's obvious it's you who never watched him play in NY , go to their board and ask them how often one of his wingers would take his d-zone responsibilities so he could play high and leave the zone early

but i guess you think watching NY game highlights on tsn is the equivalent to watching him play

yup all those players were crap even guys the ones who were high 1st rd picks that's why i'm so shocked the team played so much better without Johnny superstar . lol , but but but him leaving isn't why they played better it's because oh um something something

 

[WillyC]

Lol… paws really can’t stand John Tavares being a Toronto Maple Leaf.

Seriously though, hotpaws, tell us how you were really feeling in game 6 when Tavares scored those 2 goals to put us up 3-2 going into the 3rd… were you at least cheering for us to win?

 

[hotpaws]

Lol… paws really can’t stand John Tavares being a Toronto Maple Leaf.

Seriously though, hotpaws, tell us how you were really feeling in game 6 when Tavares scored those 2 goals to put us up 3-2 going into the 3rd… were you at least cheering for us to win?

i was pulling for the team to win just like i was pulling for the team to win in the first 5 games where JT was barely visible

i remember thinking when i was in my teens and 20's that eventually somehow the Leafs would figure it out and win a cup or two , i'm now well into my 50's and understand how hard it is to acquire a young cup quality core to build around like the one we have

but hey , who's gives a damn because it's Johnny's world and we just live in it and if AM and the kids we have never bring home a cup who gives a damn because the main goal is to fluff Johnny and to hell with winning

 

[WillyC]

i was pulling for the team to win just like i was pulling for the team to win in the first 5 games where JT was barely visible

i remember thinking when i was in my teens and 20's that eventually somehow the Leafs would figure it out and win a cup or two , i'm now well into my 50's and understand how hard it is to acquire a young cup quality core to build around like the one we have

but hey , who's gives a damn because it's Johnny's world and we just live in it and if AM and the kids we have never bring home a cup who gives a damn because the main goal is to fluff Johnny and to hell with winning

Then in game 7 when Tavares scored the game tying goal that got called back… you were still cheering for us, yes?

Basically, what I’m asking is… did your hatred for Tavares start after we lost the series… or did it flare up when JT scored those goals in games 6 and 7.