John Tavares Discussion

[Legion34]

no one knows what SJ actually offered JT , we know rumors by our insiders which consists of one them tossing out ''rumored" number and the rest of them regurgitating it

as far SJ i heard the 13m then i heard 13.5 them i heard one of the insiders go maybe up to 14 m , lol , and if they actually offered him that it still doesn't make him worth anywhere near the 11m we gave him

the main problem for us signing JT is we didn't him , we had an actually superstar num1c and a quality num2c , we needed a 3c and D but mgmt wanted to make splash and it ended up screwing us

90% mental , that's a new excuse , good for you​

This is not true.

JTs agent himself confirmed that there was a 7 year 91 million dollar deal. SJ didn’t gove the number but confirmed they offered substantial money. Dreger said it was SJ. Either way one team offered him that. It is known and confirmed


Lou himself confirmed he offered more money on an 8 year deal. He was in damage control for losing the captain of the team in his first 2 months.

People forget it was the most important signing in forever. No one left prior to him for years. He held court for a week.

Every gm who was remotely in on it had to explain. Why they didn’t get him. It hasn’t worked out as well as hoped now. But that doesn’t change the offers at the time

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Tampa trades 1sts to get colemans, goodrows on cheap deals , we trade 1sts as sweeteners and for has beens like foligno. So much wastage.

Tampa gets nick paul from senators. A trade nobody cared about at the time, until game 7 round 1.

Touching the core without addressing approach to depth is not good idea. We still live in a world where we pick names out of a hat for the 4th line and lose players like marchment because playoff losers are given more importance.

Yup:

This is the quote out of Tampa after the Goodrow trade:

"I was in the buyer's chair, and my mindset was not about value maximization. It's about winning hockey games," BriseBois said. "And I look at our team with Blake Coleman (acquired in trade from the New Jersey Devils on Feb. 16) in there, and I look at our team with Barclay Goodrow in there, and we're a better team now. And we're going to be a harder team to take out come springtime with the addition of these two players."


Identified what's missing and got it done. Coleman and Goodrow combined have lower cap hit than Kerfoot.


*had, not have

 

[thusk]

Man that would be sad if this slow overpaid plodder costs us WIllie Styles.

Yes playing soft in D, cheating all the time to get as much of possible a great number of breakaway or 2v1... being soft to get back puck in your side, being soft on backcheck

i prefer the guy who will work hard defensive side, skate on the other side, work hard to create scoring chance, put pressure, get the puck back and winning 1on1 battle. A player whonwill work hard to backcheck if his team losjng the puck...

for me the choice is pretty easy wich style you need the most...

 

[Nylanderthal]

I know sj gave him an offer of 13M, i dont know about islanders

Isles had offered 8x11m before FA and probably more

 

[WillyC]

The cap guru wannabe Leaf fans act like an UFA like John Tavares moves onto a new team every year… I guarantee, every one of them was jumping for joy after Tavares scored his 2nd goal in game six… and, I bet they were still cheering when he scored the game tying goal in game 7 that got called back.

Now they gather here in their misery… crying, that we never should of signed John Tavares.

We were 1 period and a couple bad penalties away from sending Tampa Bay packing in 6 games.

 

[Racer88]

Lots of money left to sign the 3 amigos. Unless they were getting 40 mil between the 3 of them.

Lots and lots of money left.

Lots and lots of money to throw at the amigo’s but none left to upgrade the rest of the team……..or where you being sarcastic. Lol

Imagine scoring 2 goals, 26 seconds apart in the last minute of the 2nd period, to put your team up 3-2 in game 6… literally on the verge of eliminating the back to back defending Stanley Cup Champs.

Enter the entitled crybaby cap guru Leaf fans… can we trade this bum for Nick Paul already?

You are forgetting 1 important fact……we did not eliminate them. We lost for the 6th straight year

 

[therealkoho]

This is not true.

JTs agent himself confirmed that there was a 7 year 91 million dollar deal. SJ didn’t gove the number but confirmed they offered substantial money. Dreger said it was SJ. Either way one team offered him that. It is known and confirmed


Lou himself confirmed he offered more money on an 8 year deal. He was in damage control for losing the captain of the team in his first 2 months.

People forget it was the most important signing in forever. No one left prior to him for years. He held court for a week.

Every gm who was remotely in on it had to explain. Why they didn’t get him. It hasn’t worked out as well as hoped now. But that doesn’t change the offers at the time

Yes it was the biggest UFA event in a longtime. I'm glad he decided on the Leafs, I'm happy with his play, he is what he's always been and that's a PPG centre, who wins the majority of puck battles he plays as hard in his own end as he does on the attack, and truly believed that his children should grow up in Canada in close proximity to both sets of grandparents. The irony though is that Dubas, Shanny, Mitch and Morgan all worked hard to pitch what a great experience it is to play for a legacy team, in front of fans who are enthusiastic, knowledgeable and truly embrace and care about the Bud's in blue.

And now there are threads like this jfc.

 

[Legion34]

Yes it was the biggest UFA event in a longtime. I'm glad he decided on the Leafs, I'm happy with his play, he is what he's always been and that's a PPG centre, who wins the majority of puck battles he plays as hard in his own end as he does on the attack, and truly believed that his children should grow up in Canada in close proximity to both sets of grandparents. The irony though is that Dubas, Shanny, Mitch and Morgan all worked hard to pitch what a great experience it is to play for a legacy team, in front of fans who are enthusiastic, knowledgeable and truly embrace and care about the Bud's in blue.

And now there are threads like this jfc.

I’m fine with the deal too. I was just correcting facts. A team most likely SJ offered 13 x 7

Lou offered more.

Torontos deal was seen as a favour and an underpayment.

The fact that the cap is not 95 million right now doesn’t change that.

 

[Gabriel426]

Even if we could get JT to waive is no trade nobody is taking him at that crazy contract

You will be surprise how many teams would want JT.
I think Vegas would be one as they seem to think they lack a true 1C since Eichel didn’t do well.
Seattle might want one as they need some type of hype to boast their market.

 

[socko]

for me the choice is pretty easy wich style you need the most...

If the choice is between Tavares and Nylander, then I agree, extremely easy decision.

 

[Stephen]

Yes playing soft in D, cheating all the time to get as much of possible a great number of breakaway or 2v1... being soft to get back puck in your side, being soft on backcheck

i prefer the guy who will work hard defensive side, skate on the other side, work hard to create scoring chance, put pressure, get the puck back and winning 1on1 battle. A player whonwill work hard to backcheck if his team losjng the puck...

for me the choice is pretty easy wich style you need the most...

Tavares doesn’t really fit into the Leafs style of play at all. He would be more at home on one of the more grinding St. Louis Blues lines with a ROR or David Perron than the speed and skill the Leafs want to play.

 

[hotpaws]

This is not true.

JTs agent himself confirmed that there was a 7 year 91 million dollar deal. SJ didn’t gove the number but confirmed they offered substantial money. Dreger said it was SJ. Either way one team offered him that. It is known and confirmed


Lou himself confirmed he offered more money on an 8 year deal. He was in damage control for losing the captain of the team in his first 2 months.

People forget it was the most important signing in forever. No one left prior to him for years. He held court for a week.

Every gm who was remotely in on it had to explain. Why they didn’t get him. It hasn’t worked out as well as hoped now. But that doesn’t change the offers at the time

if you have link to all these people confirming they offered more than provide it since i never saw anything outside of the typical other teams offered more and it's not about the money pretty much every ufa that signs for big money says

what's so important about the signing ? we had a number 1c and a solid num 2c signed to a very team friendly deal , our needs were not a top 6 C or making a splashy ''name'' signing

and what's so special about JT ? he hasn't accomplished anything at a team level nor much on an individual , i know i know it's always everybody else's fault and poor Johnny just gives his all only to be let down by his teammates

 

[thusk]

Tavares doesn’t really fit into the Leafs style of play at all. He would be more at home on one of the more grinding St. Louis Blues lines with a ROR or David Perron than the speed and skill the Leafs want to play.

Not agree all

Just watch kind of player leafs signed or was trading for

Bunting, kampf, kase, ritchie, lyubushkin, giordano...did they try to get speed? No they try to add grit!!!leafs want to play fast, playing doesnt be the fastest team, take decision fast, react fast, quick pass, quick shot..

Nylander look sexy and get good stats on playoff but just look how they scored... i will take montreal series as exemple where statisticly was looking excellent and where he scored 5 goal

1- nylander avoid the traffic and goes behind the net during the time foligno fughting with 2 habs D in front the net to win puck battle... nylander get the puck on his stick and scored

2- created by matthews who hit the post and price was totally out of positio

3- creating by traffic in front the net not because he took a good shot

4-empty net goal kerfoot and galchenyuk did everything and nylander just had to push the puck easyly in the net...

5- was a good play

4 of those goal he scored was because his teammate did a great job, he just get credit his teammaye deserved...

Nylander will not create a lot of thing by himself except off the rush

Tavares can affect the game on a lot of different way and all his carreer he made his teammate look better..

 

[TheGoldenJet]

This is not true.

JTs agent himself confirmed that there was a 7 year 91 million dollar deal. SJ didn’t gove the number but confirmed they offered substantial money. Dreger said it was SJ. Either way one team offered him that. It is known and confirmed


Lou himself confirmed he offered more money on an 8 year deal. He was in damage control for losing the captain of the team in his first 2 months.

People forget it was the most important signing in forever. No one left prior to him for years. He held court for a week.

Every gm who was remotely in on it had to explain. Why they didn’t get him. It hasn’t worked out as well as hoped now. But that doesn’t change the offers at the time

None of this changes the fact that signing Tavares was a bad move.

 

[Stephen]

Not agree all

Just watch kind of player leafs signed or was trading for

Bunting, kampf, kase, ritchie, lyubushkin, giordano...did they try to get speed? No they try to add grit!!!leafs want to play fast, playing doesnt be the fastest team, take decision fast, react fast, quick pass, quick shot..

Nylander look sexy and get good stats on playoff but just look how they scored... i will take montreal series as exemple where statisticly was looking excellent and where he scored 5 goal

1- nylander avoid the traffic and goes behind the net during the time foligno fughting with 2 habs D in front the net to win puck battle... nylander get the puck on his stick and scored

2- created by matthews who hit the post and price was totally out of positio

3- creating by traffic in front the net not because he took a good shot

4-empty net goal kerfoot and galchenyuk did everything and nylander just had to push the puck easyly in the net...

5- was a good play

4 of those goal he scored was because his teammate did a great job, he just get credit his teammaye deserved...

Nylander will not create a lot of thing by himself except off the rush

Tavares can affect the game on a lot of different way and all his carreer he made his teammate look better..

John Tavares needs to play the game at a high level. Period.

The amount of finger pointing at Nylander blaming him for everything Tavares is not delivering on behalf of the fans is quite unacceptable for an $11 million guy and captain of the team. There's a $4 million difference between those two in cap hit and the responsibility to make it work lies with JT. Nylander and Kerfoot make less money combined that JT and Nylander even outscored JT. It's on JT to figure it out.

 

[Legion34]

if you have link to all these people confirming they offered more than provide it since i never saw anything outside of the typical other teams offered more and it's not about the money pretty much every ufa that signs for big money says

what's so important about the signing ? we had a number 1c and a solid num 2c signed to a very team friendly deal , our needs were not a top 6 C or making a splashy ''name'' signing

and what's so special about JT ? he hasn't accomplished anything at a team level nor much on an individual , i know i know it's always everybody else's fault and poor Johnny just gives his all only to be let down by his teammates

1.) it was clear and well established. The agent himself said he was offered 91 over 7. Lou confirmed he offered more. You can refuse to believe it. But it doesn’t make it any less true.
It has been talked about for years. Feel free to look.


2.) every team in the league wanted him. He had 7 teams agree to meetings. Getting a top C in the league for free clearly has its advantages. Whether or not you see it. Lou did. Yzerman did. Every gm is wrong but you.

3.) he has been fine and played well. He was worth 14% on a rising cap. It didn’t so now it’s more of an issue. He would not be near the top of the league if it was a 95 cap.

4.) IMO. Right or wrong. Tavares is a sundin. Scores about a ppg. Regardless of other players. That is good value. He doesn’t need other players.

We should be playing him with lesser grinders and defensively responsible players. Let willy go wild on third line. Pp and soft matchups.

 

[thusk]

John Tavares needs to play the game at a high level. Period.

The amount of finger pointing at Nylander blaming him for everything Tavares is not delivering on behalf of the fans is quite unacceptable for an $11 million guy and captain of the team. There's a $4 million difference between those two in cap hit and the responsibility to make it work lies with JT. Nylander and Kerfoot make less money combined that JT and Nylander even outscored JT. It's on JT to figure it out.

Or you blaming tavares for everything nylander not delivering...

Jt played with okposo, moulson, bailey, lee, parenteau... every player tavares played with became better

Name me one guy who become a better player playing with nylander?

Sure when tavares need to do all the job defensivly because his teammate just trying to leave as soon of possible defensive zone to get as much of possible breakaway or 2v1 because its the only way hes able to create something... yes probably he will get higher stats but what you forget, get better stats dont make you a better player. I giving you an exemple, if we forget this season between 2011 to 2021, kessel outscored kopitar... who are the best player between both? And please dont tell me kessel is the best ...

 

[Legion34]

None of this changes the fact that signing Tavares was a bad move.

Welll the pandemic changed it a bit.

 

[francis246]

John Tavares needs to play the game at a high level. Period.

The amount of finger pointing at Nylander blaming him for everything Tavares is not delivering on behalf of the fans is quite unacceptable for an $11 million guy and captain of the team. There's a $4 million difference between those two in cap hit and the responsibility to make it work lies with JT. Nylander and Kerfoot make less money combined that JT and Nylander even outscored JT. It's on JT to figure it out.

Nylander’s PP totals def help him a bit. If we are assessing JT you have to look at the full picture. John Tavares is at his best playing with Mitch Marner. They need to put those two together for the betterment of the team. Nylander and JT are not a fit. There’s no chemistry. It’s not really one players fault or someone doesn’t really have to take blame. Chemistry is a thing in sports and it affects on ice product.

 

[Stephen]

Or you blaming tavares for everything nylander not delivering...

Jt played with okposo, moulson, bailey, lee, parenteau... every player tavares played with became better

Name me one guy who become a better player playing with nylander?

Sure when tavares need to do all the job defensivly because his teammate just trying to leave as soon of possible defensive zone to get as much of possible breakaway or 2v1 because its the only way hes able to create something... yes probably he will get higher stats but what you forget, get better stats dont make you a better player. I giving you an exemple, if we forget this season between 2011 to 2021, kessel outscored kopitar... who are the best player between both? And please dont tell me kessel is the best ...

I don’t blame Tavares for holding back Nylander. I blame his contract for holding up the whole window of contention because he brings about $3 million less value than he’s paid for and having so many excuses for being a poor fit.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If as a GM you understand that Tavares is going to sign with Toronto regardless, it costs you nothing to meet with him, and offer more money; it just makes you look good to the fans and to your bosses.

 

[Amadeus]

I don’t blame Tavares for holding back Nylander. I blame his contract for holding up the whole window of contention because he brings about $3 million less value than he’s paid for and having so many excuses for being a poor fit.

He's a 5-6 milion player tops in the state he's in which is around $5 million overpaid.

 

[Stephen]

He's a 5-6 milion player tops in the state he's in which is around $5 million overpaid.

Fair enough. I’d say he’s generally acceptable to me as an $8 million UFA buy but a guy in the $5-6 million range can also outshine him on any given night or 5 game segment. Hell there are nights when a Kerfoot is touching the puck and making more plays with Nylander than JT.

 

[ULF_55]

Fair enough. I’d say he’s generally acceptable to me as an $8 million UFA buy but a guy in the $5-6 million range can also outshine him on any given night or 5 game segment. Hell there are nights when a Kerfoot is touching the puck and making more plays with Nylander than JT.

After Tavares went down in the playoffs last year, the Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander line did just fine.

I wonder if there is some reason Keefe thinks Nylander has to play with Tavares when it showed he doesn't?

Get Tavares two grinders with some mitts and call it a day.

Cap should not determine playing time.

 

[Stephen]

After Tavares went down in the playoffs last year, the Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander line did just fine.

I wonder if there is some reason Keefe thinks Nylander has to play with Tavares when it showed he doesn't?

Get Tavares two grinders with some mitts and call it a day.

Cap should not determine playing time.

I like where you're going with this one. In an ideal world I would put Tavares on the third line with a primary puck carrier like Jordan Eberle and a big body like Nick Paul and just let them make ugly music together. I would also take Tavares off PP1 because I don't think they direct enough pucks to the net to justify his ineffective net front and the puck movement always slows down when he gets to it.