John Tavares Discussion

[thusk]

what's crazy is how desperate people are to defend JT

basically it's "JT is grossly overpaid and can barely move but since we don't see how we can move him we're duty bound to defend him to the death''

all he's a net front presence for the most part and if his line mates aren't carrying the load and creating chances for him he's useless

Have you already made the connection that its since he was playing with nylander that his game drop?

1st season with leafs when was playing with mitch career high 47 goal... the last 2 season ( 2 only season he was playing most of the year with nylander) he get his 2 worst season in term of goal since his rookie season...

 

[francis246]

what's crazy is how desperate people are to defend JT

basically it's "JT is grossly overpaid and can barely move but since we don't see how we can move him we're duty bound to defend him to the death''

all he's a net front presence for the most part and if his line mates aren't carrying the load and creating chances for him he's useless

I really don’t care lol. His production is fine. I’m not a delusional fan. I understand how contracts work. Especially UFA contracts, I understood Tavares would never be worth the $11 million but i and much like the leafs brass don’t care. To acquire a player of Tavares’ stature without giving up assets is a no brainer.

Additionally there was a report that came out earlier this week, that in 2025 the NHL cap is set to raise 10 million. So who cares, in 2 years his 11 mill comes off the books and we are fine.

You’re acting like he’s playing like a fourth liner which he’s not. He still put up respectable numbers. Is he playing like an 11 million player, no. But he’s no worse than what he was as an Islander, infact he’s slightly better. But it was understood when he signed he wouldn’t fully live up to the contract. As I’ve maintained for the last 3 weeks. I will always opt to have an overpayed star like Jon Tavares compared to 4 or 5 over paid 3rd liners. Always better to have an over paid 80 point guy than an overpaid 20 point guy who hits.

 

[hotpaws]

Have you already made the connection that its since he was playing with nylander that his game drop?

1st season with leafs when was playing with mitch career high 47 goal... the last 2 season ( 2 only season he was playing most of the year with nylander) he get his 2 worst season in term of goal since his rookie season...

the connection i made was that Nylander plays much better without having to go at half speed so Johnny can catch up including last playoffs where he led the team in scoring without JT

Marner had always elevated his linemates so if you want to say Marner is better than Willie and Willie isn't good enough to carry Johnny i'll agree but why should it be up to an 11m dollar players linemates to carry him ?

 

[Legion34]

My favourite part is that the posters who hate dubas and love lou completely ignore that lou offered him MORE money on the island

 

[thusk]

the connection i made was that Nylander plays much better without having to go at half speed so Johnny can catch up including last playoffs where he led the team in scoring without JT

Marner had always elevated his linemates so if you want to say Marner is better than Willie and Willie isn't good enough to carry Johnny i'll agree but why should it be up to an 11m dollar players linemates to carry him ?

And probably playing better playing without best NHL scorer too because he didnt look good at all when he was playing with Matthews

Matthews was looking better alongside Kase than nylander...

 

[hotpaws]

I really don’t care lol. His production is fine. I’m not a delusional fan. I understand how contracts work. Especially UFA contracts, I understood Tavares would never be worth the $11 million but i and much like the leafs brass don’t care. To acquire a player of Tavares’ stature without giving up assets is a no brainer.

Additionally there was a report that came out earlier this week, that in 2025 the NHL cap is set to raise 10 million. So who cares, in 2 years his 11 mill comes off the books and we are fine.

You’re acting like he’s playing like a fourth liner which he’s not. He still put up respectable numbers. Is he playing like an 11 million player, no. But he’s no worse than what he was as an Islander, infact he’s slightly better. But it was understood when he signed he wouldn’t fully live up to the contract. As I’ve maintained for the last 3 weeks. I will always opt to have an overpayed star like Jon Tavares compared to 4 or 5 over paid 3rd liners. Always better to have an over paid 80 point guy than an overpaid 20 point guy who hits.

i care about winning and when you follow the team for as many decades as i have you'll come to the realization it's very difficult to acquire a young core like we have and watching it being squandered because of JT's signing and mgmt incompetence pisses me off

JT has 3 years left not 2 and i'm acting like he's a player that killing our chances for the cup ,

 

[notDatsyuk]

My favourite part is that the posters who hate dubas and love lou completely ignore that lou offered him MORE money on the island

Why wouldn't he? It cost him absolutely nothing to make the offer (knowing that it had no chance of being accepted), it placated the fans who wanted him to make the effort, and proved that JT had no intention of keeping his word.

 

[hotpaws]

My favourite part is that the posters who hate dubas and love lou completely ignore that lou offered him MORE money on the island

everyone offered JT more money according to our company employed insiders , lol , and the best part was it kept going up to try to exceed what Duibie gave

first i heard it was NYI offered 10x8 , then it went to 10.5x8 which morphed into 11x8 , lol

still better than the non sense Elliot was spreading a month after AM signed about how the broke Yotes were going to offer AM the full 20 % of the cap , lol , they can't even afford there rent and want everybody's ir contracts so they can be millions under the floor but they were going to cough the richest contract in NHL history , lol , and what's funny it some of our fans bought it

 

[thusk]

everyone offered JT more money according to our company employed insiders , lol , and the best part was it kept going up to try to exceed what Duibie gave

first i heard it was NYI offered 10x8 , then it went to 10.5x8 which morphed into 11x8 , lol

still better than the non sense Elliot was spreading a month after AM signed about how the broke Yotes were going to offer AM the full 20 % of the cap , lol , they can't even afford there rent and want everybody's ir contracts so they can be millions under the floor but they were going to cough the richest contract in NHL history , lol , and what's funny it some of our fans bought it

I know sj gave him an offer of 13M, i dont know about islanders

 

[francis246]

i care about winning and when you follow the team for as many decades as i have you'll come to the realization it's very difficult to acquire a young core like we have and watching it being squandered because of JT's signing and mgmt incompetence pisses me off

JT has 3 years left not 2 and i'm acting like he's a player that killing our chances for the cup ,

when are you gonna get it through your head? JT isn't the sole reason this team hasn't won. The Leafs not winning a round isn't even about the cap. It's about an organizational mindset. Keefe's comments after losing game 4 is everything that is wrong with this team. He has them feeling comfortable after losing a game that would have put a strangle hold on the series. It was the same thing against MTL. The messaging needs to change. They are so in their head about blowing leads and not closing out series'. That's from the top right down to the players. They need to find the best sports psychologist and have them work with the team intensively for an entire year. They've had good enough teams, it's about 90% mental, 10% not having the right depth pieces (again not really a cap issue, just identifying the wrong guys issue).

I know sj gave him an offer of 13M, i dont know about islanders

islanders offered him an extra year, which means more money overall on the deal

 

[hotpaws]

I know sj gave him an offer of 13M, i dont know about islanders

no one knows what SJ actually offered JT , we know rumors by our insiders which consists of one them tossing out ''rumored" number and the rest of them regurgitating it

as far SJ i heard the 13m then i heard 13.5 them i heard one of the insiders go maybe up to 14 m , lol , and if they actually offered him that it still doesn't make him worth anywhere near the 11m we gave him

the main problem for us signing JT is we didn't him , we had an actually superstar num1c and a quality num2c , we needed a 3c and D but mgmt wanted to make splash and it ended up screwing us

when are you gonna get it through your head? JT isn't the sole reason this team hasn't won. The Leafs not winning a round isn't even about the cap. It's about an organizational mindset. Keefe's comments after losing game 4 is everything that is wrong with this team. He has them feeling comfortable after losing a game that would have put a strangle hold on the series. It was the same thing against MTL. The messaging needs to change. They are so in their head about blowing leads and not closing out series'. That's from the top right down to the players. They need to find the best sports psychologist and have them work with the team intensively for an entire year. They've had good enough teams, it's about 90% mental, 10% not having the right depth pieces (again not really a cap issue, just identifying the wrong guys issue).



islanders offered him an extra year, which means more money overall on the deal

90% mental , that's a new excuse , good for you​

 

[francis246]

no one knows what SJ actually offered JT , we know rumors by our insiders which consists of one them tossing out ''rumored" number and the rest of them regurgitating it

as far SJ i heard the 13m then i heard 13.5 them i heard one of the insiders go maybe up to 14 m , lol , and if they actually offered him that it still doesn't make him worth anywhere near the 11m we gave him

the main problem for us signing JT is we didn't him , we had an actually superstar num1c and a quality num2c , we needed a 3c and D but mgmt wanted to make splash and it ended up screwing us

90% mental , that's a new excuse , good for you​

not an excuse, anyone who's involved in high performance/college/pro sports understands how much mentality plays into it. I think a lot of casual fans don't understand that side of sports and resort to blaming the construction of the roster. A lot of you are nitpicking at things that have little to no relevance in terms of winning.

 

[Shooter2x]

no one knows what SJ actually offered JT , we know rumors by our insiders which consists of one them tossing out ''rumored" number and the rest of them regurgitating it

as far SJ i heard the 13m then i heard 13.5 them i heard one of the insiders go maybe up to 14 m , lol , and if they actually offered him that it still doesn't make him worth anywhere near the 11m we gave him

the main problem for us signing JT is we didn't him , we had an actually superstar num1c and a quality num2c , we needed a 3c and D but mgmt wanted to make splash and it ended up screwing us

90% mental , that's a new excuse , good for you​

I like how you ignore the part you actually agree with, that would make you have to consider if JT isn't really the issue (half assing the rest of the roster around the core).

 

[hotpaws]

I like how you ignore the part you actually agree with, that would make you have to consider if JT isn't really the issue (half assing the rest of the roster around the core).

what else can they do with the limited cap space due to signing JT and overpaying the 3 rfa's but half ass the rest of roster ?

 

[Shooter2x]

what else can they do with the limited cap space due to signing JT and overpaying the 3 rfa's but half ass the rest of roster ?

why do you have this odd requirement that the depth players to finish the roster off need to be making 3-5 mil or whatever? You and Dubas need to get in touch with the game. The rest of the roster can be filled efficiently around that beast core. A lot of these guys the past few years have helped teams win cups before their pay raise as well. Management absolutely sucks at surrounding the core with worthy soldiers. They don't need expensive depth, they need depth who want to win the cup at all costs (or have the health to last 4 rounds).

I'm not looking to write an essay today, simply put in 2022 there is enough cap left to win the cup.

 

[hotpaws]

why do you have this odd requirement that the depth players to finish the roster off need to be making 3-5 mil or whatever? You and Dubas need to get in touch with the game. The rest of the roster can be filled efficiently around that beast core. A lot of these guys the past few years have helped teams win cups before their pay raise as well. Management absolutely sucks at surrounding the core with worthy soldiers. They don't need expensive depth, they need depth who want to win the cup at all costs (or have the health to last 4 rounds).

I'm not looking to write an essay today, simply put in 2022 there is enough cap left to win the cup.

if we had a ''beast core'' that was structured properly i'd agree we'd have better a chance of building around it but unfortunately we don't have a num 1 D or a high quality num1 G

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

why do you have this odd requirement that the depth players to finish the roster off need to be making 3-5 mil or whatever? You and Dubas need to get in touch with the game. The rest of the roster can be filled efficiently around that beast core. A lot of these guys the past few years have helped teams win cups before their pay raise as well. Management absolutely sucks at surrounding the core with worthy soldiers. They don't need expensive depth, they need depth who want to win the cup at all costs (or have the health to last 4 rounds).

I'm not looking to write an essay today, simply put in 2022 there is enough cap left to win the cup.

Tampa trades 1sts to get colemans, goodrows on cheap deals , we trade 1sts as sweeteners and for has beens like foligno. So much wastage.

Tampa gets nick paul from senators. A trade nobody cared about at the time, until game 7 round 1.

Touching the core without addressing approach to depth is not good idea. We still live in a world where we pick names out of a hat for the 4th line and lose players like marchment because playoff losers are given more importance.

 

[ToneDog]

Have you already made the connection that its since he was playing with nylander that his game drop?

1st season with leafs when was playing with mitch career high 47 goal... the last 2 season ( 2 only season he was playing most of the year with nylander) he get his 2 worst season in term of goal since his rookie season...

Either Mitch and Matty want to play together or Dubas/Keefe are too stupid to realize that they are better if Marner plays with JT. It is time to sell high on Nylander.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

I'm all for making the team better regardless of the play. Just unfortunate that you have to trade a PPG winger in both the regular season and the playoffs just so you can make your dud Captain play better.

You need to hope one of our wingers in the Marlies step up because with Nylander gone our winger depth is terrible. Marner and Bunting are the only legit top 6 wingers. Everyone else are tweeners that suck in the playoffs. If Nylander is traded I'd like to see it for D. We can't complain about Having 40% of the cap tied up to four forwards and the play is to trade the best value forward of that group for ..... Another forward? Makes no sense.

Like I said this JT signing really dogged the Leafs. Management thought it as a low risk high reward signing, but in reality it was a huge risk/high reward move. We have not been rewarded from the signing. As people have said he is here to stay so we need to start thinking about how to make him effective. Regardless of if Nylander is on the team or not, if Marner isn't playing with JT next season I know Keefe and Dubby aren't serious about winning a cup. That our the thought of Matthews high tailing it when his contract is up is holding them hostage.

 

[socko]

Man that would be sad if this slow overpaid plodder costs us WIllie Styles.

 

[Stephen]

Tampa trades 1sts to get colemans, goodrows on cheap deals , we trade 1sts as sweeteners and for has beens like foligno. So much wastage.

Tampa gets nick paul from senators. A trade nobody cared about at the time, until game 7 round 1.

Touching the core without addressing approach to depth is not good idea. We still live in a world where we pick names out of a hat for the 4th line and lose players like marchment because playoff losers are given more importance.

There's a lot of inefficiently allocated cap in Muzzin, Brodie, Kerfoot, Holl, Mrazek which accounts for almost $20 million. You can't flush it all out, but some of it would give the Leafs extra breathing room.

I just hope they have a productive offseason reshaping the middle class this summer. Really don't want to see the bottom two lines full of Adam Brooks and Mike Amadio type guys or hope Denis Malgin can become a borderline NHLer again.

 

[Stephen]

Man that would be sad if this slow overpaid plodder costs us WIllie Styles.

Until 2025, this is JT's dream and we're just livin' in it.

 

[francis246]

Tampa trades 1sts to get colemans, goodrows on cheap deals , we trade 1sts as sweeteners and for has beens like foligno. So much wastage.

Tampa gets nick paul from senators. A trade nobody cared about at the time, until game 7 round 1.

Touching the core without addressing approach to depth is not good idea. We still live in a world where we pick names out of a hat for the 4th line and lose players like marchment because playoff losers are given more importance.

thank you!!! been saying it the last 3/4 days. The Leafs suck at identifying the right players at the deadline and through UFA. Our Pro Scouting team needs an overhaul.

Man that would be sad if this slow overpaid plodder costs us WIllie Styles.

even before JT I always thought Nylander would eventually be moved.

 

[Stephen]

thank you!!! been saying it the last 3/4 days. The Leafs suck at identifying the right players at the deadline and through UFA. Our Pro Scouting team needs an overhaul.



even before JT I always thought Nylander would eventually be moved.

Why should Nylander be moved?

Coming into the league he was compared to David Pastrnak, and now that he's an 80+ point player and inching towards 40 goals he should be moved because a guy who makes over $4 million more than him can't hang on his line? Or he needs to be the sacrifice because the GM can't identify Bottom 6 playoff suitable players?

Nylander has his problems but I don't think he should be given the boot to cover up the shortcomings of our GM and captain.

 

[francis246]

Why should Nylander be moved?

Coming into the league he was compared to David Pastrnak, and now that he's an 80+ point player and inching towards 40 goals he should be moved because a guy who makes over $4 million more than him can't hang on his line? Or he needs to be the sacrifice because the GM can't identify Bottom 6 playoff suitable players?

Nylander has his problems but I don't think he should be given the boot to cover up the shortcomings of our GM and captain.

I never said he SHOULD be moved, I just always thought that if they decided to move one in the future it would most likely be him. Doesn't mean I want to happen. Just a feeling I got in 2017.