John Tavares Discussion

[ToneDog]

Can we forget the talk about moving Tavares and concentrate on finding him a winger more suited to his playing style ???

 

[BackPassChampions]

Can we forget the talk about moving Tavares and concentrate on finding him a winger more suited to his playing style ???

Yeah, Tavares isn’t going anywhere. He’s here to play out his contract, as much as people like it or not.

 

[ToneDog]

Yeah Tavares isn’t going anywhere. He’s here to play out his contract, as much as people like it or not.

He scored two goals that turned a 2-1 deficit into a 3-2 lead in game #6 and had a beautiful goal called back in game #7. There is hope. I bet he is working on his skating as we speak. Just find him a winger that will work with him so we can be the 2 dominant line team that we strived to be when we signed him.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It depends what happens with Bergeron. If he comes back, there is no rebuild.
Bergeron/Tavares/Marchand/McAvoy/Pastrnak/Hall/etc. is not rebuild.

Either way, I would be asking JT to waive.

Even if he comes back, they are older, and it's the first time in several years they haven't won at least one round.

Regardless, I think it's too much for them to give up for Tavares.

 

[Mess]

The worst mistake Lou Lam made as Leafs GM was to to get the Leafs out of cap misery from the Dion Phaneuf contract at the Trade deadline 2016 when he traded him to Ottawa and removed [6 years @ $7 mil Cap remaining] off the books for a 2017 2nd round pick and some residual short team contract dumps.

Maple Leafs - Traded • Dion Phaneuf • Matt Frattin • Casey Bailey • Ryan Rupert • Cody Donaghey to Senators for • Jared Cowen • Colin Greening • Milan Michalek • Tobias Lindberg • 2017 second round pick (#59-Eemeli Rasanen) on 2016-02-09

Senators acquire Phaneuf in nine-player trade

Before something can be rebuilt, it needs to be torn down. General manager Lou Lamoriello continued that process with the Toronto Maple Leafs on Tuesday when he traded captain Dion Phaneuf to the Ottawa Senators in a nine-player blockbuster.

"This gives us the opportunity to do things," Lamoriello said. "But it also gives us the opportunity when some of our younger players that are coming at the end of their entry-level contracts, who we have high expectations for, to be able to sign them. This was a transaction that certainly wasn't for today."

"Dion is going to leave a hole in our lineup, there's no question," Lamoriello said. "But I think as I've said continuously, what the overall plan is, that when you have an opportunity to do this, [you do it]…this is a transaction that I think we had no choice with." No, it was clearly for tomorrow, a tomorrow that has become much easier to shape and mold because of the work the Maple Leafs have done over the past calendar year to free themselves of three contracts that were once considered untradeable in a salary cap world.

Link: Senators acquire Phaneuf in nine-player trade

The "Plan" was to create cap space to re-sign the 3 Amigos and the first thing Dubas did after replacing Lou Lam was to re-invest that cap towards signing John Tavares instead, now putting the Leafs into a perilous and untenuous cap situation going forward which in addition cost them their 2019 1st round pick to recreate more cap space.

 

[Shooter2x]

The worst mistake Lou Lam made as Leafs GM was to to get the Leafs out of cap misery from the Dion Phaneuf contract at the Trade deadline 2016 when he traded him to Ottawa and removed [6 years @ $7 mil Cap remaining] off the books for a 2017 2nd round pick and some residual short team contract dumps.

Maple Leafs - Traded • Dion Phaneuf • Matt Frattin • Casey Bailey • Ryan Rupert • Cody Donaghey to Senators for • Jared Cowen • Colin Greening • Milan Michalek • Tobias Lindberg • 2017 second round pick (#59-Eemeli Rasanen) on 2016-02-09

Senators acquire Phaneuf in nine-player trade

Before something can be rebuilt, it needs to be torn down. General manager Lou Lamoriello continued that process with the Toronto Maple Leafs on Tuesday when he traded captain Dion Phaneuf to the Ottawa Senators in a nine-player blockbuster.

"This gives us the opportunity to do things," Lamoriello said. "But it also gives us the opportunity when some of our younger players that are coming at the end of their entry-level contracts, who we have high expectations for, to be able to sign them. This was a transaction that certainly wasn't for today."

"Dion is going to leave a hole in our lineup, there's no question," Lamoriello said. "But I think as I've said continuously, what the overall plan is, that when you have an opportunity to do this, [you do it]…this is a transaction that I think we had no choice with." No, it was clearly for tomorrow, a tomorrow that has become much easier to shape and mold because of the work the Maple Leafs have done over the past calendar year to free themselves of three contracts that were once considered untradeable in a salary cap world.

Link: Senators acquire Phaneuf in nine-player trade
St pos
The "Plan" was to create cap space to re-sign the 3 Amigos and the first thing Dubas did after replacing Lou Lam was to re-invest that cap towards signing John Tavares instead, now putting the Leafs into a perilous and untenuous cap situation going forward which in addition cost them their 2019 1st round pick to recreate more cap space.

Worst mistake my ass. That's one of the best trades of his career.

Are you also forgetting your butterfly effect costs us matthews. Put the beers down.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Worst mistake my ass. That's one of the best trades of his career.

Are you also forgetting your butterfly effect costs us matthews. Put the beers down.

Maybe Mess is trolling himself.

 

[francis246]

The worst mistake Lou Lam made as Leafs GM was to to get the Leafs out of cap misery from the Dion Phaneuf contract at the Trade deadline 2016 when he traded him to Ottawa and removed [6 years @ $7 mil Cap remaining] off the books for a 2017 2nd round pick and some residual short team contract dumps.

Maple Leafs - Traded • Dion Phaneuf • Matt Frattin • Casey Bailey • Ryan Rupert • Cody Donaghey to Senators for • Jared Cowen • Colin Greening • Milan Michalek • Tobias Lindberg • 2017 second round pick (#59-Eemeli Rasanen) on 2016-02-09

Senators acquire Phaneuf in nine-player trade

Before something can be rebuilt, it needs to be torn down. General manager Lou Lamoriello continued that process with the Toronto Maple Leafs on Tuesday when he traded captain Dion Phaneuf to the Ottawa Senators in a nine-player blockbuster.

"This gives us the opportunity to do things," Lamoriello said. "But it also gives us the opportunity when some of our younger players that are coming at the end of their entry-level contracts, who we have high expectations for, to be able to sign them. This was a transaction that certainly wasn't for today."

"Dion is going to leave a hole in our lineup, there's no question," Lamoriello said. "But I think as I've said continuously, what the overall plan is, that when you have an opportunity to do this, [you do it]…this is a transaction that I think we had no choice with." No, it was clearly for tomorrow, a tomorrow that has become much easier to shape and mold because of the work the Maple Leafs have done over the past calendar year to free themselves of three contracts that were once considered untradeable in a salary cap world.

Link: Senators acquire Phaneuf in nine-player trade

The "Plan" was to create cap space to re-sign the 3 Amigos and the first thing Dubas did after replacing Lou Lam was to re-invest that cap towards signing John Tavares instead, now putting the Leafs into a perilous and untenuous cap situation going forward which in addition cost them their 2019 1st round pick to recreate more cap space.

you're joking right?

 

[andora]

I am hoping he worded that wrong

 

[notDatsyuk]

Maybe Mess is trolling himself.

I thought it was sarcasm.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The worst mistake Lou Lam made as Leafs GM was to to get the Leafs out of cap misery from the Dion Phaneuf contract at the Trade deadline 2016 when he traded him to Ottawa and removed [6 years @ $7 mil Cap remaining] off the books for a 2017 2nd round pick and some residual short team contract dumps.

Maple Leafs - Traded • Dion Phaneuf • Matt Frattin • Casey Bailey • Ryan Rupert • Cody Donaghey to Senators for • Jared Cowen • Colin Greening • Milan Michalek • Tobias Lindberg • 2017 second round pick (#59-Eemeli Rasanen) on 2016-02-09

Senators acquire Phaneuf in nine-player trade

Before something can be rebuilt, it needs to be torn down. General manager Lou Lamoriello continued that process with the Toronto Maple Leafs on Tuesday when he traded captain Dion Phaneuf to the Ottawa Senators in a nine-player blockbuster.

"This gives us the opportunity to do things," Lamoriello said. "But it also gives us the opportunity when some of our younger players that are coming at the end of their entry-level contracts, who we have high expectations for, to be able to sign them. This was a transaction that certainly wasn't for today."

"Dion is going to leave a hole in our lineup, there's no question," Lamoriello said. "But I think as I've said continuously, what the overall plan is, that when you have an opportunity to do this, [you do it]…this is a transaction that I think we had no choice with." No, it was clearly for tomorrow, a tomorrow that has become much easier to shape and mold because of the work the Maple Leafs have done over the past calendar year to free themselves of three contracts that were once considered untradeable in a salary cap world.

Link: Senators acquire Phaneuf in nine-player trade

The "Plan" was to create cap space to re-sign the 3 Amigos and the first thing Dubas did after replacing Lou Lam was to re-invest that cap towards signing John Tavares instead, now putting the Leafs into a perilous and untenuous cap situation going forward which in addition cost them their 2019 1st round pick to recreate more cap space.

Lou didn't keep that money open lol he used it on giving Marleau a deal with an NMC that ran through all 3 amigos contract renewals.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Lou didn't keep that money open lol he used it on giving Marleau a deal with an NMC that ran through all 3 amigos contract renewals.

Lots of money left to sign the 3 amigos. Unless they were getting 40 mil between the 3 of them.

Lots and lots of money left.

 

[Stephen]

Just a quick thought exercise. How high would Tavares rank on the pecking order of the Colorado Avalanche or Tampa Bay Lightning?

 

[hamzarocks]

Just a quick thought exercise. How high would Tavares rank on the pecking order of the Colorado Avalanche or Tampa Bay Lightning?

He's the 4th or 5th best player on the leafs

This year for the Avs

He's behind their big 3 forwards + Makar + Toews

Kadri this year is ahead of him but overall JT is the clear better player.

He'd be 6th best in that team by sustained production. By current year only, Nuchkinin, Kadri, Burakovsky all have cases to be better/more valuable then him

On Tampa

Kuch, Point, Stamkos, Hedman, Vas are clearly better than him

He'd be in battle for 6th with McDonough

JT is a 8M$ regular season player and a 5.5-6M playoff player (14 pts in 19 games as a leaf)

He's so lucky he's got no personality and hockey isn't a big sport especially on social media

Dude would be getting flamed for life if he was an NBA star who signed with his hometown team and flopped heavily in the playoffs (kind of like Kawhi with the clippers that first year they blew 3-1 vs the nuggets, but kawhi was still great that year and amazing the following before his ACL injury)

 

[francis246]

He's the 4th or 5th best player on the leafs

This year for the Avs

He's behind their big 3 forwards + Makar + Toews

Kadri this year is ahead of him but overall JT is the clear better player.

He'd be 6th best in that team by sustained production. By current year only, Nuchkinin, Kadri, Burakovsky all have cases to be better/more valuable then him

On Tampa

Kuch, Point, Stamkos, Hedman, Vas are clearly better than him

He'd be in battle for 6th with McDonough

JT is a 8M$ regular season player and a 5.5-6M playoff player (14 pts in 19 games as a leaf)

He's so lucky he's got no personality and hockey isn't a big sport especially on social media

Dude would be getting flamed for life if he was an NBA star who signed with his hometown team and flopped heavily in the playoffs (kind of like Kawhi with the clippers that first year they blew 3-1 vs the nuggets, but kawhi was still great that year and amazing the following before his ACL injury)

It’s really hard to equate his ranking on another team. But I’d say it would be quite high on both those teams and higher than you’re giving him credit for.

Both Stamkos and MacKinnon prefer playing on the wing and play down the middle out of necessity to balance their line up. If you were to give them a Center like Tavares who can handle more of the defensive responsibilities and take faceoffs could you imagine what their production would be. More than likely even higher than it is right now. It would be dream for them. He would become a pretty effective and important forward for those teams.

Look at what Kadri was able to accomplish on Colorado’s top line and 1st PP. Tavares would outproduce Kadri in that spot since he simply is a better player. He’s consistently good. Kadri had an anamoly year. Tavares would be a slower more offensive Cirelli on Tampa.

 

[WillyC]

Imagine scoring 2 goals, 26 seconds apart in the last minute of the 2nd period, to put your team up 3-2 in game 6… literally on the verge of eliminating the back to back defending Stanley Cup Champs.

Enter the entitled crybaby cap guru Leaf fans… can we trade this bum for Nick Paul already?

 

[hotpaws]

Imagine scoring 2 goals, 26 seconds apart in the last minute of the 2nd period, to put your team up 3-2 in game 6… literally on the verge of eliminating the back to back defending Stanley Cup Champs.

Enter the entitled crybaby cap guru Leaf fans… can we trade this bum for Nick Paul already?

Imagine making 11m per yr and not scoring another goal in a 7 game series that wasn't a lucky bounce off your foot and have people defend you like their life depended on it ?

 

[francis246]

Imagine making 11m per yr and not scoring another goal in a 7 game series that wasn't a lucky bounce off your foot and have people defend you like their life depended on it ?

It’s crazy seeing people like you get so worked up over a contract that’s never moving. JT is sticking around until he retires. After this contract he’ll make his league minimum to $1 mill/2mill. One way or another JT will be apart of this teams success. Yes he’s overpaid but not nearly as bad in terms of production as you try and make it seem.

 

[thusk]

Can we forget the talk about moving Tavares and concentrate on finding him a winger more suited to his playing style ???

Completly agree

Tavares was looking great when he was playing with marner

Matthews was not as good when he was playing with nylander. He was looking better eith bunting and kase over nylander...

unable to bring out best of matthews
Unable to bring out best of tavares
Unable to drive by himself a line.

I just dont think nylander is whats need need because like you said, matthews and tavares will stay...so im agree, probably time to find a real foward to play with tavares

 

[francis246]

Completly agree

Tavares was looking great when he was playing with marner

Matthews was not as good when he was playing with nylander. He was looking better eith bunting and kase over nylander...

unable to bring out best of matthews
Unable to bring out best of tavares
Unable to drive by himself a line.

I just dont think nylander is whats need need because like you said, matthews and tavares will stay...so im agree, probably time to find a real foward to play with tavares

Agreed that’s why over the next two years graduating some of the Marlies is going to be so pivotal, if Steeves, Holmberg, Robertson, Knies, Hirovinen, Abruzzese if at least two of those guys can hit it may open up some flexibility to move Nylander for a defenseman.

 

[Mess]

Food for thought ..

How much Cap would you pay for 27 goals?

2021-22 Stats.

Last season John Tavares scored 27 goals for the Leafs for $11 mil cap consumption AAV.

Zach Hyman the player they let go to Edmonton via UFA scored 27 goals for $5.5 mil AAV

Jared McCann the player they let go to Seattle via expansion scored 27 goals for $2.9 mil AAV

Nazem Kadri the player that John Tavares replaced as Leafs 2nd line center after signed scored 28 goals for $4.5 mil AAV, and they acquired Kerfoot in trade scored 13 goals for $3.5 mil AAV.

So Leafs are paying for Tavares & Kerfoot = $14.5 mil for 40 NHL goals in 2021-22 while for cap reasons, they got rid of Hyman + McCann + Kadri = $12.9 mil for 82 goals.

** Ironically now 2 of the most mentioned Leaf players that fans would like to see moved for cap reasons are John Tavares ((if not for NMC)) and Alex Kerfoot to create cap space for their replacements, when their former Leaf teammates already would have done that. ** Double the goals for less cap cost !!!

 

[ToneDog]

Completly agree

Tavares was looking great when he was playing with marner

Matthews was not as good when he was playing with nylander. He was looking better eith bunting and kase over nylander...

unable to bring out best of matthews
Unable to bring out best of tavares
Unable to drive by himself a line.

I just dont think nylander is whats need need because like you said, matthews and tavares will stay...so im agree, probably time to find a real foward to play with tavares

He needs 2 wingers who can slow down the game so he can keep up if that is even possible.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Tavares is a good player.......doesn't seem to be quite what he used to be when he first arrived in Toronto but still very good. In the Sundin years, 27 goals and 76 points was fine.

But there's ZERO ways to justify spending 11M for 7 years on him. He gets top 3 money for all Centres in the NHL, and delivers top 44 numbers overall(18th for Centres). No one needs to spend 11M on a 2C. It was just a "big splash" signing to get us all frenzied and buying more merchandise. We won't be able to win squat unless we get an elite Goalie in net and maybe a legit #1 D-man to take pressure off Reilly. And we can't do that because our money is all tied up in 4-5 guys(unless a huge trade of one of the young guys happens, obv.).

 

[hotpaws]

It’s crazy seeing people like you get so worked up over a contract that’s never moving. JT is sticking around until he retires. After this contract he’ll make his league minimum to $1 mill/2mill. One way or another JT will be apart of this teams success. Yes he’s overpaid but not nearly as bad in terms of production as you try and make it seem.

what's crazy is how desperate people are to defend JT

basically it's "JT is grossly overpaid and can barely move but since we don't see how we can move him we're duty bound to defend him to the death''

all he's now is a net front presence for the most part and if his line mates aren't carrying the load and creating chances for him he's useless

 

[thusk]

He needs 2 wingers who can slow down the game so he can keep up if that is even possible.

Not necessary slow down the game, player crashing the net... thats whats he need and thats why guy like okposo or moulson looked great alongside tavares...

I would like to compare tavares to crosby. Crosby the neet player in the world but everybody are able to play with crosby... pittsburgh tried with kessel ( same style of nylander) and didn't worked pretty well because hes need guy you gonna work hard, battle hard, crash the net and do everything they can to give him back the puck..best crosby partner during all his carreer was probably Pascal Dupuis... a 3rd line grinder.