John Tavares Discussion

[usernamezrhardtodo]

If you tell a lie enough times it becomes true. Matthews deal historically falls right in line with the other elite franchise 1c top picks since the cap era. Look at term & cap% for Crosby Malkin stamkos Tavares kopitar Duchene etc and look at Matthews deal and where he falls in that group.
Why would there be “proof” of contract offers that weren’t signed? It was widely reported by various outlets SJ specifically and others had and would’ve offered more.
The isles offered more aav and an extra year of term. That would’ve been Lou as well btw


Why is any of that shocking? You knew it wasn’t going to be 8 or 9…. So why is that surprising? You sell the concept of the “marriage” then you iron out the details. It was also chronicled that the sharks offered more (13-14m) and that sweet Lou offered max term and more aav. I guess that doesn’t fit your narrative so it’s okay to exclude though.

So you don't think that going into the biggest UFA signing that they never discussed money as not odd at all let alone shocking...ok then.

What exactly is my narrative btw....I am just curious.

 

[WTFMAN99]

If you tell a lie enough times it becomes true. Matthews deal historically falls right in line with the other elite franchise 1c top picks since the cap era. Look at term & cap% for Crosby Malkin stamkos Tavares kopitar Duchene etc and look at Matthews deal and where he falls in that group.
Why would there be “proof” of contract offers that weren’t signed? It was widely reported by various outlets SJ specifically and others had and would’ve offered more.
The isles offered more aav and an extra year of term. That would’ve been Lou as well btw


Why is any of that shocking? You knew it wasn’t going to be 8 or 9…. So why is that surprising? You sell the concept of the “marriage” then you iron out the details. It was also chronicled that the sharks offered more (13-14m) and that sweet Lou offered max term and more aav. I guess that doesn’t fit your narrative so it’s okay to exclude though.

Wouldn't the even more recent comparables be McDavid and Eichel for Matthews? They were all supposed to be the next group of franchise centres in the league. Not to be forgotten is Leon in all of this as well.

Ekblad was also signed to an 8 year deal by Florida, a recent 1st overall.

 

[Racer88]

I notice you didn't ask the other guy about proof. I never actually made a statement about believing anything.

Actually I have asked a few posters that are posting the narrative that Tavares was offered more money from other clubs.
So I have to ask now, do you believe that he was offered more money from other GM’s

 

[Brobust]

Actually I have asked a few posters that are posting the narrative that Tavares was offered more money from other clubs.
So I have to ask now, do you believe that he was offered more money from other GM’s

And you didn't ask the guy calling it nonsense.

Anyway, I don't care to speculate on that because it doesn't change the fact that John Tavares is still a PPG player and an integral part of an elite team. Well worth the money, IMO.

 

[Racer88]

If you tell a lie enough times it becomes true. Matthews deal historically falls right in line with the other elite franchise 1c top picks since the cap era. Look at term & cap% for Crosby Malkin stamkos Tavares kopitar Duchene etc and look at Matthews deal and where he falls in that group.
Why would there be “proof” of contract offers that weren’t signed? It was widely reported by various outlets SJ specifically and others had and would’ve offered more.
The isles offered more aav and an extra year of term. That would’ve been Lou as well btw


Why is any of that shocking? You knew it wasn’t going to be 8 or 9…. So why is that surprising? You sell the concept of the “marriage” then you iron out the details. It was also chronicled that the sharks offered more (13-14m) and that sweet Lou offered max term and more aav. I guess that doesn’t fit your narrative so it’s okay to exclude though.

First off you need to either learn to read or comprehend, I’m not sure which but that’s up to you. My problem is with having 3- 11 million dollar players. That said I firmly believe that Matthews took Dubas in the length of his contract and Marner took him in the dollar value.
As far as proof goes…..without it, it’s only hear say It means nothing. Anyone can say what ever they want on social media but unless there is proof it’s crap especially with news sources and most sports writers.
Final point……..I have sat back and watched you spew all kinds of nonsense without chiming in but I was wondering how long you could contain yourself and not jump into my posts with your normal insults ………it wasn’t long

And you didn't ask the guy calling it nonsense.

Anyway, I don't care to speculate on that because it doesn't change the fact that John Tavares is still a PPG player and an integral part of an elite team. Well worth the money, IMO.

And that’s the great thing, we are allowed to have different opinions

 

[Menzinger]

Actually I have asked a few posters that are posting the narrative that Tavares was offered more money from other clubs.
So I have to ask now, do you believe that he was offered more money from other GM’s

Without wading into the credibility of media sources debate here, I'm not sure why it's a questionable claim.

He was arguably at the time, one of the most sought after free agents of the cap era. When was the last time a 1C, with JTa pedigree hit free agency in his 20s? A very rare thing. And we know multiple teams have multi hour presentations to him and his agent.

There's also the fact that other free agents (Panarin) were given bigger contracts

 

[Brobust]

First off you need to either learn to read or comprehend, I’m not sure which but that’s up to you. My problem is with having 3- 11 million dollar players. That said I firmly believe that Matthews took Dubas in the length of his contract and Marner took him in the dollar value.
As far as proof goes…..without it, it’s only hear say It means nothing. Anyone can say what ever they want on social media but unless there is proof it’s crap especially with news sources and most sports writers.
Final point……..I have sat back and watched you spew all kinds of nonsense without chiming in but I was wondering how long you could contain yourself and not jump into my posts with your normal insults ………it wasn’t long


And that’s the great thing, we are allowed to have different opinions

Sure, but that's not this is even about. This is about a guy saying he's going to ignore a report because it doesn't fit his narrative.

 

[Blowfish]

JT is what ruined the Leafs....He set the bar for $ contract deals, he sucked up cap space, and year by year he's looking slower and slower. So much could have gone right if he didn't set that bar.

Too bad, the leafs had an incredible opportunity to be set for success. Such a poor / rushed decision.

 

[Nylanderthal]

First off you need to either learn to read or comprehend, I’m not sure which but that’s up to you. My problem is with having 3- 11 million dollar players. That said I firmly believe that Matthews took Dubas in the length of his contract and Marner took him in the dollar value.
As far as proof goes…..without it, it’s only hear say It means nothing. Anyone can say what ever they want on social media but unless there is proof it’s crap especially with news sources and most sports writers.
Final point……..I have sat back and watched you spew all kinds of nonsense without chiming in but I was wondering how long you could contain yourself and not jump into my posts with your normal insults ………it wasn’t long


And that’s the great thing, we are allowed to have different opinions

Cry about it

 

[Racer88]

Without wading into the credibility of media sources debate here, I'm not sure why it's a questionable claim.

He was arguably at the time, one of the most sought after free agents of the cap era. When was the last time a 1C, with JTa pedigree hit free agency in his 20s? A very rare thing. And we know multiple teams have multi hour presentations to him and his agent.

There's also the fact that other free agents (Panarin) were given bigger contracts

I think the reason some people take issue with it is that some posters hold it up as justificating that Dubas was right to give him the 11 million dollar contract. It’s fine to be on either side of that debate but using something that none of us have any proof of other then speculation and rumours and holding it up as fact I find wrong
I respect everyone’s right to an opinion…..God knows I have enough of my own

Cry about it

Nobody’s crying and with comments like that just your just showing your immaturity and making a fool of yourself

 

[francis246]

JT is what ruined the Leafs....He set the bar for $ contract deals, he sucked up cap space, and year by year he's looking slower and slower. So much could have gone right if he didn't set that bar.

Too bad, the leafs had an incredible opportunity to be set for success. Such a poor / rushed decision.

I find posts like these to be so funny. Blaming a decade+ of failure on one signing. It’s so stupid and just shows how brain dead most of this fanbase is because of the loses. JT alone isn’t the reason we haven’t won

 

[ULF_55]

I think the reason some people take issue with it is that some posters hold it up as justificating that Dubas was right to give him the 11 million dollar contract. It’s fine to be on either side of that debate but using something that none of us have any proof of other then speculation and rumours and holding it up as fact I find wrong
I respect everyone’s right to an opinion…..God knows I have enough of my own


Nobody’s crying and with comments like that just your just showing your immaturity and making a fool of yourself

I'd have to give more credibility to actual hockey sources than posters here trying to add weight to their position.

Of the two parties which one is making their claim because it supports their position while the other has nothing to gain by stating their research.

 

[JL17]

Or he'll waive because the Leafs turn into a non-playoff team. Or he will be Spezza. We'll find out in three years.

Well he certainly isn’t going to fight someone to try and get the team going or speak up!

 

[Gabriel426]

Ask Larry and one of his private companies to be a backer for Yokes in the arena proposal and then send JT to Yokes, then Yokes trade JT to the Sens with 50% retention. Ask Larry again to use one of his many private companies to purchase the Melnyk shares and then trade JT back to Leafs with 50% retention. Boom JT is now on the books for 2.75m AAV.

Won’t happen and just like all these crazy proposals some of you are trying to do.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Can't have 3 x 11mil players. Simple pimple. What happens afterwards is irrelevant

 

[WTFMAN99]

When JT was with the Islanders towards the end there, his primary linemates were Bailey and...Eberle? I might be remembering wrong. Was he not the primary puck carrier and distributor?

 

[francis246]

When JT was with the Islanders towards the end there, his primary linemates were Bailey and...Eberle? I might be remembering wrong. Was he not the primary puck carrier and distributor?

Yes he was the set up man. A lot of the people complaining about JT obviously did not watch him prior to him signing. His 40+ goal year is the standard everyone is holding him to. But he’s been basically what he did on the island, even a bit better here in Toronto. You have to factor in that on the Island, Tavares was the focal point of the power play, they specifically ran point shots so he can tip and he was the finisher on the bumper play. Very similar to his first year in Toronto. The Maple Leafs have completely gone away from that strategy.

The fact of the matter is people on here are crazy. He scored 70+ points and that still isn’t good enough for fans. It’s why Toronto is one of the worst places for anyone to play. We as a fanbase are on crack. It’s what makes the idea of winning here so incredible but also makes it difficult to find success here. At the end of the day people need to realize the organization knew they were overpaying. His production has been pretty good. It’s not $11 million worth, but it ain’t $7 million worth either.

I get it people are expecting more from him because of his salary but considering the minutes he’s getting

 

[Blowfish]

I find posts like these to be so funny. Blaming a decade+ of failure on one signing. It’s so stupid and just shows how brain dead most of this fanbase is because of the loses. JT alone isn’t the reason we haven’t won

In the last 5 years yes he's a major contributor to the fail and not because he's been horrible.

 

[ER89]

Yes he was the set up man. A lot of the people complaining about JT obviously did not watch him prior to him signing. His 40+ goal year is the standard everyone is holding him to. But he’s been basically what he did on the island, even a bit better here in Toronto. You have to factor in that on the Island, Tavares was the focal point of the power play, they specifically ran point shots so he can tip and he was the finisher on the bumper play. Very similar to his first year in Toronto. The Maple Leafs have completely gone away from that strategy.

The fact of the matter is people on here are crazy. He scored 70+ points and that still isn’t good enough for fans. It’s why Toronto is one of the worst places for anyone to play. We as a fanbase are on crack. It’s what makes the idea of winning here so incredible but also makes it difficult to find success here. At the end of the day people need to realize the organization knew they were overpaying. His production has been pretty good. It’s not $11 million worth, but it ain’t $7 million worth either.

I get it people are expecting more from him because of his salary but considering the minutes he’s getting

If you legitimately think his 5v5 production matches his salary then I have a bridge to sell you in Manhattan.

 

[francis246]

If you legitimately think his 5v5 production matches his salary then I have a bridge to sell you in Manhattan.

Please open your eyes and read before replying. I know I typed out a lot but in the second last paragraph I literally said his production is not worth $11 million.

But he was the best UFA to hit the market in the cap era so yes he was going to cost a fair bit above market value.

 

[francis246]

In the last 5 years yes he's a major contributor to the fail and not because he's been horrible.

I actually think the construction of the team has been fine. Everything wrong with the team was Keefe’s comments before and after game 6. And game 6 has been this organizations downfall the past 5 years. The inability to hold the core accountable and management not making it clear enough they need to win deciding games prior To game 7 is the issue. The team has had a relaxed approach in game 6’s because of their comfortability with having a game 7. That starts at the top. Really has nothing to do with contracts

 

[ER89]

Please open your eyes and read before replying. I know I typed out a lot but in the second last paragraph I literally said his production is not worth $11 million.

But he was the best UFA to hit the market in the cap era so yes he was going to cost a fair bit above market value.

Fair enough but people have the right to rag on him if he isn't producing even close to 11 m

 

[francis246]

Fair enough but people have the right to rag on him if he isn't producing even close to 11 m

never said you can't. Not everyone will be happy, i understand that

 

[Shooter2x]

Tavares isn't even close to being washed yet.

In my opinion his issue isn't decline. He's gained two really bad habits.

The first one is the back hand passes to nobody while cycling. Everyone knows this one good.

The second bad habit is tunnel vision in the offensive zone. The real Tavares is the one we saw in game 5 where him, nylander and rielly connected for the tying goal. That wasn't a fluke setup by JT, that's just him.

Defensively/technically he was / is an absolute beast and one of the best in the game in that regard.

Drop those 2 bad habits and he's still worth at least 9 mil. Consider the extra 2 mil free agent route fees.

 

[ER89]

never said you can't. Not everyone will be happy, i understand that

Okay fair enough haha. A solid take.