John Tavares Discussion
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Racer88
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- Sep 29, 2020
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That would have been awesome
Pretty much what most intelligent hockey people think with the exception of a few hereI went to Capfriendly web site this morning .. CapFriendly - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
At the top righthand side of the page, under Popular Buyouts it lists Mrazek and Tavares as the top 2 on the list.
POPULAR BUYOUTS
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[TR]
[TH]PLAYER[/TH]
[TH][/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Petr Mrázek[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So it appears Tavares contract is being recognized as a problem.
They should trade him to the Sens and trade him back at TDL with 50% retention.
usernamezrhardtodo
Registered User
- Mar 26, 2014
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That is some good out of the box thinking....is it possible to do that? I bet if we did do it...they would stop it and create a new rule saying you can't do that.
Mess
Global Moderator
Tavares is still a good player, he has just lost a step it appears and simply isn't worth the $11 mil cap hit.
In hindsight its clear now that Leafs should have stayed the course and not gone big fish hunting via UFA as it completely destroyed their cap situation.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
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Destroyed it so badly they only had a franchise record season.
Matthews Marner Nylander Kadri Hyman brown kapanen jonnson .
A lot of young talented forwards not yet in their prime.
They were close against Washington and needed an upgrade on defense.
Tavares was not a superstar worth 11 mil and it was a terrible idea to sign him
A lot of young talented forwards not yet in their prime.
They were close against Washington and needed an upgrade on defense.
Tavares was not a superstar worth 11 mil and it was a terrible idea to sign him
Mess
Global Moderator
Food for thought.
John Tavares scored 27 goals last year and that cost the Leafs $11 mil cap hit.
Meanwhile the player the Leafs acquired prior to expansion, and lost to Seattle Jared McCann also scored 27 goals last year and did it for a mere $2.94 mil,
Had the Leafs kept McCann and played him in Hyman's old spot, alongside Matthews and Marner he likely would have scored 27 goals for the Leafs.
McCann @ 27 goals + $8 mil extra cap space = Tavares @ 27 goals for $11 mil.
This is why other teams don't run around handing out $11 mil contracts. unless you're a 60 goal scorer and Rocket winner and Hart finalist able to validate the contract and prove you are a top 5 player in the league..
John Tavares scored 27 goals last year and that cost the Leafs $11 mil cap hit.
Meanwhile the player the Leafs acquired prior to expansion, and lost to Seattle Jared McCann also scored 27 goals last year and did it for a mere $2.94 mil,
Had the Leafs kept McCann and played him in Hyman's old spot, alongside Matthews and Marner he likely would have scored 27 goals for the Leafs.
McCann @ 27 goals + $8 mil extra cap space = Tavares @ 27 goals for $11 mil.
This is why other teams don't run around handing out $11 mil contracts. unless you're a 60 goal scorer and Rocket winner and Hart finalist able to validate the contract and prove you are a top 5 player in the league..
In hindsight, if they didnt sign JT make the Kadri trade. They could have kept Kadri, Brown, Kap, and AJ. Maybe MM won’t break out in his last year of ELC and somehow manage to keep Hyman too.
Lineup:
Hyman-AM-Brown
Bunting-Kadri-MM
AJ-Willie-Kap
Lineup:
Hyman-AM-Brown
Bunting-Kadri-MM
AJ-Willie-Kap
justashadowof
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2020
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I'd have preferred that team but I can't lie that I wasn't excited when Tavares signed here.
Exactly, everyone tries to act like they weren’t excited when JT signed here.
The problem never has been the JT contract. The problem was always Matthews and Marner got paid way too much post ELC. I don’t know what it’s going to take for people to realize that. Everyone wants to deflect, but they should have bridged Matthews and Marner. Their contracts were bad for many reasons, it compromised our cap and it also put so much pressure on them (especially Marner).
Mess there were a handful of teams ready to sign Tavares for more than 11 million. We’re talking 12 or maybe even 13 million. Your point is moot. Teams will always be willing to pay a premium for top UFA’s especially rich clubs who can front load the contract &/or pay a majority in bonuses. Teams were and are willing to sign a guy to 11 million.
keonsbitterness
Registered User
Yes there were.
But did they have the young talented forward group that the leafs had?
And they’re probably really happy that they couldn’t sign him now.
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
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Why would Ottawa just give us $16.5M over three seasons for the sake of having him for part of one? And why would JT agree?
I must be missing something.
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
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Just because other teams were willing to pay more for something they needed doesn't mean we should have paid that much for something we didnt need, especially when there were things we needed a lot more.
To me AM's contract is fine. Some say what about the term....but lets say it is for 8 yrs, the cap hit would still be the same.
MM's contract should be a bridge. But by the time he renews, which would be last summer, the amount might be 500K-1mil less mainly due to COVID. In short, if it werent for COVID, MM would still be getting paid the same starting this season.
I think having THREE forwards each with around a 13% caphit was a bad decision. Ofcourse if the Leafs actually won the year after JT was signed, or won in the following 5 years, none of it matters.
Racer88
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2020
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Except me. 100% hated it. Thought it was an overpay (I know they say Philly offered more...), blew up our cap, didn't really match our timeline, and knew it would constrain the re-signings of the young studs. It was short-sighted and primarily a notch on the franchise belt.
Racer88
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2020
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All these rumours and story’s about all the teams that were going to pay Tavares these crazy numbers are meaningless. Unless one of the parties comes out and confirms it it’s just here say.
That aside just because someone else is willing to make a mistake we shouldn’t be.
plain and simple the only reason Tavares is here is because Dubas wanted to make a big splash to his new club
That aside just because someone else is willing to make a mistake we shouldn’t be.
plain and simple the only reason Tavares is here is because Dubas wanted to make a big splash to his new club
Hope he’s training hard this season, people forget that he looked like a beast the first half of the season and then simply went downhill quick after that.
Could be conditioning? Could have been the covid? Not sure, but either way he needs to get back to that level.
Could be conditioning? Could have been the covid? Not sure, but either way he needs to get back to that level.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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I hope they transition the captaincy over to Matthews this fall. Just feels like he's not the most natural fit. In hindsight it's kind of a bad sign that they gave him the C in 2019-20 and everything went off the rails that season, prompting the team to attempt to bring in more old leadership.
Where did I say we should have? I said Mess’ point about teams don’t do it is wrong. We know for a fact teams were willing to do it and I’m sure many teams would do it because he is still a productive player. I don’t think the leafs regret signing Tavares at all. His production has stayed consistent while not playing top line minutes despite losers who don’t know shit claiming that it dropped. And if you polled many GM’s I think a lot of GM’s would love Tavares because he would be their #1 Center playing with their best wingers, not their #2 Center and his role on their PP may look different. I’m always okay with paying a bit more for free agents.
The leafs will never regret signing a marquee UFA. They will forever regret those post ELC contracts that they had full control over and botched.
Again wrong, the reason Tavares is here is because it’s the only place he wanted to be. & if Dubas didn’t get it done, this market would have exploded. It would have been another summer of the leafs can’t sign marquee free agents. Dubas is a shit GM. Yada yada, let’s call a spade a spade. It wasn’t until after the ELC’s people called this deal bad.
Lets look at the UFA signings for defenseman over the 2018 and 2019 UFA signing period. It's ugly, Tavares was hands down the better value contract.
2018 Top Defenseman signings
John Carlson (who initially I wanted the leafs to target) [WSH 8y -$64 million] - not a bad deal but he wanted to stay in Washington
Mike Green [DET - 2 y, $10.75 million] - not sure if he even played that second year of his contract
Calvin De Haan [CAR - 4y 18.2 million] - Carolina ended up trading him
John Moore - [BOS - 5y 13.75 million] - was on waivers and in the minors at various points
Ian Cole - [COL - 3y $12.75 million] - alright defenseman but still rather have Tavares
Jack Johnson - [PIT - 5y $16.25 million] - yikes
2018 Forward signings
Not even going to list them, they are horrendous. Outside of Perron there isn't a forward I would have touched. Tavares was by far the best UFA available in this class.
2019 Signings:
Again not much out there that would have altered our franchise or would have been a better decision that Tavares. Panarin was going to NY, doubt Duchene was signing here.
I can see some peoples point about not signing Tavares, but I think they are being naive. When a top UFA comes calling, GM's are not saying no to that. Especially when there was more than likely pressure by ownership to make the signing happen after missing the mark on Stamkos the year before.
notDatsyuk
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- Jul 20, 2018
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You still seem to be trying to justify that signing.
I'm not saying he's not a good player, or not worth $11M, just not to us. If you have three new cars but your fridge and stove are dying, you don't blow your budget on another new car, no matter how pretty.
I think the Leafs are already regretting it, and even just based on this thread, a lot of fans are too.
If you believe that his signing drove up the price for Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, then maybe the front office should have known that, and not signed him. If you believe that his signing didn't, then maybe the front office should have known what those three were going to cost, and not signed him. Either way, that shiny new toy (actually a kinda dull older toy) wasn't what we really needed, and couldn't afford.
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