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John Tavares Discussion

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JL17 said:
Crosby made a career of turning his wingers into producers when on most teams they’re 3rd or 4th liners. Marner helped Tavares have a career year. Tavares isn’t in the same discussion as Crosby.
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Not even close to Crosby. However, JT has done well turning some meh guys into quality producers during his time in Long Island.
 
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JL17 said:
Crosby made a career of turning his wingers into producers when on most teams they’re 3rd or 4th liners. Marner helped Tavares have a career year. Tavares isn’t in the same discussion as Crosby.
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U missed the point, if Tavares had Crosby's wheels, he would be Crosby basically. Both are skilled grinders, great hands, IQ.
 
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Tavares in the last 2 games with Marner is basically the same guy...minus being stressed to the max about Nylander and whether he will show up or not. Id have nightmares about Nylander being my linemate. A superstar talent level but doesnt care. Nylander's pre game is blowdry his hair for 30 mins, hit the tanning bed.
 
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lol that Johnny is Crosby but with senior division beer league skating

more like Johnny is a slower more skilled Hyman , sure a 11m dollar Hyman unfortunately but a Hyman nonetheless
 
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Larcos_Unal said:


I mean, it's not that crazy a take....
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I think that's a perfectly valid take. It seems like JT patterned a lot of his down low game and area play and abrupt changes in direction like a Crosby, but lacks Crosby's skating and pacing. But he probably needs someone like Marner who is playing that east west dance at a more manageable pace than trying to catch up to Kerfoot and Nylander.
 
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Willchel Marlynder said:
Not even close to Crosby. However, JT has done well turning some meh guys into quality producers during his time in Long Island.
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I'm going to throw an alternative hot take out there that Tavares would thrive with more meh guys than pure speed and skill guys. Give him a big body net crasher, a digger, maybe a primary puck carrier like a Jordan Eberle and he would be more effective than playing with a pure finesse speed based player.
 
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Stephen said:
I'm going to throw an alternative hot take out there that Tavares would thrive with more meh guys than pure speed and skill guys. Give him a big body net crasher, a digger, maybe a primary puck carrier like a Jordan Eberle and he would be more effective than playing with a pure finesse speed based player.
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I think that's a very fair assessment. I feel he would look much better with players who can play a heavier, crash and bang style of hockey. Would he have more points? Maybe, maybe not. However, he would look much less ineffective out there.
 
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Since January 1st, Tavares ranks 149th in the league in 5v5 points (10). Some names he's currently behind:
  • Adam Guadette (11)
  • Rem Pitlick (11)
  • Shayne Gostisbehere (11)
  • Galchenyuk (12)
  • Travis Boyd (12)
  • Zach Hyman (13)
  • Artturi Lehkonen (13)
  • Craig Smith (17)
  • Nylander (14)
Suffice to say, he's not playing like an elite center at ES in 2022. This project, allocating $40M to the big four, only works if the big four actually play at an elite level.
 
Stephen said:
I think that's a perfectly valid take. It seems like JT patterned a lot of his down low game and area play and abrupt changes in direction like a Crosby, but lacks Crosby's skating and pacing. But he probably needs someone like Marner who is playing that east west dance at a more manageable pace than trying to catch up to Kerfoot and Nylander.
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Also excluding the fact that Johnny has nowhere near the vision Crosby has, but not many do.
 
I didn’t think he was at all terrible? The 2nd line had some chances and the lacklustre PP was definitely a 5 man failure not exclusive to Tavares (or his linemate Nylander for that matter). He had an xGF% of 86.82 on the night.

He had some pretty great plus tonight to, engaging physically and saved a goal.



 
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He can’t bury a scoring chance for his life. Every shot is either wide or right at the pads/crest.

He made a good defensive play tonight and is good at face offs. Only hope for him is if Keefe gives him Marner. Keefe seems satisfied though with the 2nd line being mostly useless however.
 
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I feel like people are starting to escape goat John way too much..... He gets a lot of money yes, but he puts the effort every game and has a high offense to his game.
 
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JL17 said:
Crosby made a career of turning his wingers into producers when on most teams they’re 3rd or 4th liners. Marner helped Tavares have a career year. Tavares isn’t in the same discussion as Crosby.
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This is the most bizarre take. Huh?

Matt Moulson, Anders Lee, Kyle Okposo and many others disagree. Tavares got them paid.

In fact, I will suggest that Tavares has actually done more to make his wingers great than Crosby.
 
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Stephen said:
I think that's a perfectly valid take. It seems like JT patterned a lot of his down low game and area play and abrupt changes in direction like a Crosby, but lacks Crosby's skating and pacing. But he probably needs someone like Marner who is playing that east west dance at a more manageable pace than trying to catch up to Kerfoot and Nylander.
Click to expand...
Crosby's power is elite. North-south, east-west, few players compare. JT's north-south isn't terrible, it's just magnified next to a player - an elite O-zone entry player - like Nylander. Spot on with respect to Marner's east-west game ideally matching JT's. Wonder if Blackwell's N/S speed, puck retrieval is the ideal supplement?
Tak7 said:
Since January 1st, Tavares ranks 149th in the league in 5v5 points (10). Some names he's currently behind:
  • Adam Guadette (11)
  • Rem Pitlick (11)
  • Shayne Gostisbehere (11)
  • Galchenyuk (12)
  • Travis Boyd (12)
  • Zach Hyman (13)
  • Artturi Lehkonen (13)
  • Craig Smith (17)
  • Nylander (14)
Suffice to say, he's not playing like an elite center at ES in 2022. This project, allocating $40M to the big four, only works if the big four actually play at an elite level.
Click to expand...
Small sample size, trends being what they are, I think similarly the way we can justify D-pairings by their average cost, we have to lean into JT's presence the same way.

What's the larger sample size JT compares with? As an exercise, let's measure in seasons: 2-5?

###

The reality of the matter is that JT's NMC was signed in good faith at a time when our present cap realities (which couldn't have been foreseen) weren't a consideration. We often speak to a greater loyalty to the club. If insisting that Tavares waive his NMC is part of the only way he and his contract move, what impact does that have in the room and across the league?

There's one way his contract moves, and that's at his insistence, and that's exactly how it should happen if it happens.

Now if the league would just kindly let that cap go for Toronto, it all - happily - becomes moot.
 
ITM said:
The reality of the matter is that JT's NMC was signed in good faith at a time when our present cap realities (which couldn't have been foreseen) weren't a consideration. We often speak to a greater loyalty to the club. If insisting that Tavares waive his NMC is part of the only way he and his contract move, what impact does that have in the room and across the league?

There's one way his contract moves, and that's at his insistence, and that's exactly how it should happen if it happens.
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You don't have to insist, if they crash and burn in the playoffs and moving JT is an option they want to explore, he can be quietly asked if he is open to a move. If he says no, you respect the decision and move on to other ways to move forward.

I don't think just asking him will sour the relationship.
 
mapleleaf979 said:
Tavares in the last 2 games with Marner is basically the same guy...minus being stressed to the max about Nylander and whether he will show up or not. Id have nightmares about Nylander being my linemate. A superstar talent level but doesnt care. Nylander's pre game is blowdry his hair for 30 mins, hit the tanning bed.
Click to expand...
what a stupid post. This dude is known to be a gym rat and one of the first and last ones on ice. He consistently shows up to optional practices and has set up JT for multiple chances which he's whiffed on. If I'm JT i would have nightmares that I'm suddenly playing a 35 year old.
 
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Tak7 said:
Since January 1st, Tavares ranks 149th in the league in 5v5 points (10). Some names he's currently behind:
  • Adam Guadette (11)
  • Rem Pitlick (11)
  • Shayne Gostisbehere (11)
  • Galchenyuk (12)
  • Travis Boyd (12)
  • Zach Hyman (13)
  • Artturi Lehkonen (13)
  • Craig Smith (17)
  • Nylander (14)
Suffice to say, he's not playing like an elite center at ES in 2022. This project, allocating $40M to the big four, only works if the big four actually play at an elite level.
Click to expand...

he's actually at 14pts.

tied with O'Reilly, Stamkos, ahead of Aho, Bergeron, Hintz, Petersson, Malkin, Kuznetsov, Barzal, Kopitar, Giroux, etc.
 
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Maybe he'd look better between Engvall and Mikheyev.
Yes, they're 2 speedsters, but they don't tend to move the puck as much, it's on their horse and away.
Perhaps Tavares coming in late would be open for the rebounds.
 
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