John Tavares Discussion

[djdev]

Pretty f***ing hard to be the best player on the ice when Matthews and Marner are rolling the way they are....

JT is the Tim Duncan of the NHL. There is no fun in fundamentals...

excusing him because of how well the 1st line has played is ludicrous. what happens when the 1st line doesnt score?(like vs columbus recently), more than likely we lose.
sorry but hes being paid to effect games in a positive way, and hes not. that 2nd line not only isnt producing, more often that not they are hemmed in their own zone for long stretches. i dont care about his production tbh, the fact is he has, more often than not over the past calendar, year played way below his standards. he used to be a monster on the puck, it was super difficult to dispossess him of it, now anyone touches his stick and its a turnover. its not good enough. willy has fed him numerous glorious chances over this most recent stretch and he does less than nothing with the opportunity.
if marner was in this type of slump there would be 2 more parts to his thread with constant "trade him" "hes a bum" etc etc posts, why does a player(and captain) that makes more money than marner get a free pass?

and btw, tim duncan was the best player on the spurs for the majority of his career.

edit: also, i never said he has to be the best player on the ice, i said he has to be one of the best players on the ice and not even every game, which is more than fair to expect given hes our 2nd highest paid player.

 

[Beyonder91]

I think it's time to try Tavares as Nylanders winger

 

[Stephen]

JT had a very similar quiet stretch last year where he only scored 2 goals in 17 games. People were jumping on him and Willy at that time. Anyone else remember that dummy Steve Simmons' "Ikea" article on Willy?

Exhibit A:

17GP
2G + 10A, 12Pts
View attachment 511308

and then he finished the year with:

34Gp
13G + 18A, 31Pts

Him and Willy turned it on, and were arguably our best 2 players to finish the year.

People need to pump the breaks with the JT shit. He's a complete pro. He will be fine. I want him to score just as much as the next person, but are we really complaining about a dude who has 48pts in 51GP this season? on our 2nd line no less...

We don't deserve this team lol

I think Tavares will turn it around too because like you said he was in a massive slump where we weren’t sure if he was cooked or not. Then he just fixed his game and went on a tear.

Where we differ though is the idea that he’s above (harsh) criticism just because he’ll turn it around one day and oops we looked so foolish when he was doing jack.

Tavares has been given the keys to the franchise and expectations should be high. If Tavares was living up to his bargain we should theoretically have a third player of Matthews and Marner’s caliber and think where that would put us in terms of matchups against anybody. We would be front running the East more than Colorado is dominating the West. And that’s already quietly been taken off the table as a realistic possibility. So long story short, it’s time for Tavares to start putting up some numbers and start being involved 5 on 5 again.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

I think it's time to try Tavares as Nylanders winger

I think it's time to try JT and Kampf's winger. Mik-Nylander/Kerf please

 

[Twine Tickler]

excusing him because of how well the 1st line has played is ludicrous. what happens when the 1st line doesnt score?(like vs columbus recently), more than likely we lose.
sorry but hes being paid to effect games in a positive way, and hes not. that 2nd line not only isnt producing, more often that not they are hemmed in their own zone for long stretches. i dont care about his production tbh, the fact is he has, more often than not over the past calendar, year played way below his standards. he used to be a monster on the puck, it was super difficult to dispossess him of it, now anyone touches his stick and its a turnover. its not good enough. willy has fed him numerous glorious chances over this most recent stretch and he does less than nothing with the opportunity.
if marner was in this type of slump there would be 2 more parts to his thread with constant "trade him" "hes a bum" etc etc posts, why does a player(and captain) that makes more money than marner get a free pass?

and btw, tim duncan was the best player on the spurs for the majority of his career.

edit: also, i never said he has to be the best player on the ice, i said he has to be one of the best players on the ice and not even every game, which is more than fair to expect given hes our 2nd highest paid player.

I think Tavares will turn it around too because like you said he was in a massive slump where we weren’t sure if he was cooked or not. Then he just fixed his game and went on a tear.

Where we differ though is the idea that he’s above (harsh) criticism just because he’ll turn it around one day and oops we looked so foolish when he was doing jack.

Tavares has been given the keys to the franchise and expectations should be high. If Tavares was living up to his bargain we should theoretically have a third player of Matthews and Marner’s caliber and think where that would put us in terms of matchups against anybody. We would be front running the East more than Colorado is dominating the West. And that’s already quietly been taken off the table as a realistic possibility. So long story short, it’s time for Tavares to start putting up some numbers and start being involved 5 on 5 again.

It's really not that I believe JT shouldn't receive criticism. I think he'd even agree he needs to be better. I think there is no question about that. I would actually be shocked if anyone thought his last 2 months were good enough. But this is a player that has earned the benefit of the doubt IMO.

My whole point is that the sun is not setting on JT's career just yet. Not necessarily pointing out you 2 posters, but there are some rather ridiculous claims in this thread for a guy who is still flirting with a pt/game season. He didn't just come back from the COVID pause and pack it in. He's still got game left, and I am sure that he will come back to form in short order.

Like I said, I don't think there is any doubt he needs to be way better. But I'm just personally not going to lead the charge or even participate in the freaking out that's ongoing in the court of public opinion at this moment. I may get there if it continues into playoffs. But certainly not when the team has gone 15-6-2 during his slump.

JT needs to be better. Campbell needs to be better. Willy needs to be better. But their boys are picking them up when they are down right now. As they've done in reverse at times in the past as well. It's how successful teams operate. At the end of the day it's all about the W's. If I thought JT was doggin' it and not aggressively trying to get out of his funk I'd be much more critical and worried. Hockey is a game of bounces, and sure you absolutely make your own bounces most of the time. But when your confidence is shot, those bounces just go the other way all the time. If you play the game you'd know the feeling. He just needs 1 feel good game, and then all the puck will just start magically landing flat on his tape.

 

[djdev]

It's really not that I believe JT shouldn't receive criticism. I think he'd even agree he needs to be better. I think there is no question about that. I would actually be shocked if anyone thought his last 2 months were good enough. But this is a player that has earned the benefit of the doubt IMO.

My whole point is that the sun is not setting on JT's career just yet. Not necessarily pointing out you 2 posters, but there are some rather ridiculous claims in this thread for a guy who is still flirting with a pt/game season. He didn't just come back from the COVID pause and pack it in. He's still got game left, and I am sure that he will come back to form in short order.

Like I said, I don't think there is any doubt he needs to be way better. But I'm just personally not going to lead the charge or even participate in the freaking out that's ongoing in the court of public opinion at this moment. I may get there if it continues into playoffs. But certainly not when the team has gone 15-6-2 during his slump.

JT needs to be better. Campbell needs to be better. Willy needs to be better. But their boys are picking them up when they are down right now. As they've done in reverse at times in the past as well. It's how successful teams operate. At the end of the day it's all about the W's. If I thought JT was doggin' it and not aggressively trying to get out of his funk I'd be much more critical and worried. Hockey is a game of bounces, and sure you absolutely make your own bounces most of the time. But when your confidence is shot, those bounces just go the other way all the time. If you play the game you'd know the feeling. He just needs 1 feel good game, and then all the puck will just start magically landing flat on his tape.

fair enough, ive never wanted him gone so much as treated the same as the other star players, willy has been demoted before, so has marner. JT shouldnt be above this, its hurting our team by just glossing over the fact that he hasnt been producing in months and letting him "work it out", its also hurting nylander. if the 1st line wasnt so hot we would be fighting for our playoff lives atm imo. JT needs to get it together or he needs to be moved to a different line or off center or something, i would try anything at this point. he gets the benefit of the doubt that others dont, which is silly cuz at the end of the day its about performing, which he isnt.

 

[Twine Tickler]

fair enough, ive never wanted him gone so much as treated the same as the other star players, willy has been demoted before, so has marner. JT shouldnt be above this, its hurting our team by just glossing over the fact that he hasnt been producing in months and letting him "work it out", its also hurting nylander imo. if the 1st line wasnt so hot we would be fighting for our playoff lives atm imo. JT needs to get it together or he needs to be moved to a different line or off center or something, i would try anything at this point. he gets the benefit of the doubt that others dont, which is silly cuz at the end of the day its about performing, which he isnt.

I think the reason he has not been demoted is because even while slumping he is still very clearly better than Kampf, Kerfoot or Spezza as the 2C.

Like I said in an earlier post, there are some really subtle things that Tavares does that don't always lead to goals for, but often times can elongate an offensive zone shift. My concerns with his slump have absolutely nothing to do with his lack of production, but more so on the defensive side of the ice. He has been late to his man a lot more than usual, and he's just not connecting with those clean breakouts that we've become used to. Which have lead to turnovers in our own zone or in neutral ice. It's causing that line to chase the game a bit more than usual. It's not just him on that line, but I would say he is the one who should shoulder the most blame.

For the record, I am not opposed to slotting JT down the lineup. Anything that could improve our chances in playoffs needs to be explored prior to game 1 IMO. Including breaking up Willy and JT again. They could trial Willy up the middle, I know he was drafted as a C/LW and I think he even played center on the Marlies if I'm not mistaken. Someone can fact check me on that. He's considerably better in his own end now vs. when he broke into the league and I think he could easily handle center duties at this point in his career.

Maybe do something like:

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Nylander - Kase
Kerfoot -Tavares - Micheyev
Simmonds - Kampf - Spezza

It's a weird ass combo, but I would be open minded to at least trialing it, or some form of it prior to the playoffs. The last go of balanced lines that saw Nylander bumped down with Kerf and Kampf didn't really work too well IMO, but I do think we should explore other variations of balanced lines. With the only constant being that top line. I think if you roll lines 2-3 evenly through 5v5 it really doesn't matter who is technically labelled 2nd or 3rd line. But I'd 100% lean more heavily on the JT line on defensive zone starts and conversely I'd run the Nylander line more on offensive zone starts.

Definitely something that I think needs to be explored further. Attempt #1 at balance lines was a bit of a disaster. But now is the time to trial, we've afforded ourselves the luxury of doing just that

 

[djdev]

I think the reason he has not been demoted is because even while slumping he is still very clearly better than Kampf, Kerfoot or Spezza as the 2C.

Like I said in an earlier post, there are some really subtle things that Tavares does that don't always lead to goals for, but often times can elongate an offensive zone shift. My concerns with his slump have absolutely nothing to do with his lack of production, but more so on the defensive side of the ice. He has been late to his man a lot more than usual, and he's just not connecting with those clean breakouts that we've become used to. Which have lead to turnovers in our own zone or in neutral ice. It's causing that line to chase the game a bit more than usual. It's not just him on that line, but I would say he is the one who should shoulder the most blame.

For the record, I am not opposed to slotting JT down the lineup. Anything that could improve our chances in playoffs needs to be explored prior to game 1 IMO. Including breaking up Willy and JT again. They could trial Willy up the middle, I know he was drafted as a C/LW and I think he even played center on the Marlies if I'm not mistaken. Someone can fact check me on that. He's considerably better in his own end now vs. when he broke into the league and I think he could easily handle center duties at this point in his career.

Maybe do something like:

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Nylander - Kase
Kerfoot -Tavares - Micheyev
Simmonds - Kampf - Spezza

It's a weird ass combo, but I would be open minded to at least trialing it, or some form of it prior to the playoffs. The last go of balanced lines that saw Nylander bumped down with Kerf and Kampf didn't really work too well IMO, but I do think we should explore other variations of balanced lines. With the only constant being that top line. I think if you roll lines 2-3 evenly through 5v5 it really doesn't matter who is technically labelled 2nd or 3rd line. But I'd 100% lean more heavily on the JT line on defensive zone starts and conversely I'd run the Nylander line more on offensive zone starts.

Definitely something that I think needs to be explored further. Attempt #1 at balance lines was a bit of a disaster. But now is the time to trial, we've afforded ourselves the luxury of doing just that

i mean kampf has the same amount of 5v5 goals as JT since the beginning of december, he isnt clearly better than any of those guys when it comes to how hes actually producing atm lol. i would try those lines though, gotta do something if he doesnt snap out of it, although i think kerfoot and willy have always done well together when its just those 2 so i might keep them paired for a few games to see how it goes.

 

[meefer]

His cap hit is consistent with his production? What?? In his time as an $11 million player with Toronto, he is under a point per game (slightly). He only has one season over a point per game in his 4 seasons in Toronto, and that was his first season multiple years ago.

Are you telling me every point per game player that is adequate away from the puck should be making $11 million on their teams cap? He’s the 4th highest paid forward in hockey. Is his production in line with being the 4th best forward in the world?

Poorly phrased on my behalf. His production has been consistent throughout his career, both here and on the Island. This slide that he's on, and I do stand by the Nylander comment, is the first really bad one he's had as a Leaf and yet he's still just shy of a point/game.

 

[Holls Blackmail]

In the Lebda game the Leafs had 5 PP goals so he was basically -3 in a 4-3 game so not as bad as it looks.

For JT, the Marner line got 6 goals which isn't his fault, so he was +/-0 with a penalty in a 4-7 game which isn't that bad either.

Ok, I'll counter with...in a 10 goal game an $11M player had 0 points.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

The leafs don’t win tonight without Tavares, he was on a mission.

 

[saffronleaf]

captain came thru

 

[Man Bear Pig]

He looked good tonight. His game was never about being pretty. He's supposed to grind for his line to score. That's what's been missing from his game.

 

[DarkKnight]

He was so untypically animated and pissed off tonight, good on him. He’s a great player, he will rebound.

 

[ULF_55]

JT is not at 100% health.

 

[dubplatepressure]

JT is not at 100% health.

Say more…

 

[mapleleaf979]

Ive said this before, Tavares I 100% guarantee doesnt like Nylander on his wing. Nylander is the toughest person to gel with on this team, imo. To some degree, Nylander is not reliable. Tonight Nylander was using his puck protection skills, I have no clue why he doesnt do this more often, its very very good but Nylander isnt interested in doing that. Tavares has no clue what Nylander will bring game to game in order for him to gel with him completely. Nylander also does not gel well with Matthews.

 

[mapleleaf979]

The leafs don’t win tonight without Tavares, he was on a mission.

That is true, but Tavares is the most overpaid Leaf. Kadri @ 4.5 million playing a defensive role on this team for 2c was a great value and Dubas messed up. This team misses Connor Brown on the 3rd line.

 

[meefer]

Ive said this before, Tavares I 100% guarantee doesnt like Nylander on his wing. Nylander is the toughest person to gel with on this team, imo. To some degree, Nylander is not reliable. Tonight Nylander was using his puck protection skills, I have no clue why he doesnt do this more often, its very very good but Nylander isnt interested in doing that. Tavares has no clue what Nylander will bring game to game in order for him to gel with him completely. Nylander also does not gel well with Matthews.

Nylander's first rate talent is undeniable. He can bring me out of my seat like few others. But what goes on in his head to produce such magic one game and then be invisible the next is a coach's, and I agree with you here, Tavares's nightmare, JT saying "who the farging hell am I playing with tonight?" If JT had Nylander's skating abilities he'd have challenged Crosby this past decade +.

 

[Stephen]

Ive said this before, Tavares I 100% guarantee doesnt like Nylander on his wing. Nylander is the toughest person to gel with on this team, imo. To some degree, Nylander is not reliable. Tonight Nylander was using his puck protection skills, I have no clue why he doesnt do this more often, its very very good but Nylander isnt interested in doing that. Tavares has no clue what Nylander will bring game to game in order for him to gel with him completely. Nylander also does not gel well with Matthews.

Tavares and Nylander aren't the best fit. Nylander wants to rush the puck at speed and Kerfoot on the opposite wing can oblige, but Tavares doesn't want to be dashing up open ice. Nylander has that Forsberg lite type drive where he can one handed shovel the puck and cycle around the offensive zone like he's looking for a parking space, but Tavares is more comfortable in close quarters, using aggressive cuts and changes in direction to shake off defenders. One guy wants free flow, the other hard stops and starts. They can produce together but each one of them seems to want to play a different game.

 

[ULF_55]

Say more…

From what Keefe was saying post game interview.

 

[ULF_55]

Watching some of the Bruins - Kings game.
Kopitar and Doughty.

 

[zeke]

Leafs players are allowed to have slumps guys.

I promise you good players on other teams also slump.

 

[TMLAM34]

Tavares was a beast tonight.

 

[stickty111]

Won this game for the team. I will continue to say even during his bad stretches, I an not worried about him.