CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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John Moore
- Thread starter CBJWerenski8
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I believe he will continue to improve. His injury makes it hard to assess his development but he still shows flashes of good offensive skill. I would only trade him for a significant over payment in return.
I'm hoping we ride all of these guys until the summer and we stay in the playoff hunt at least to the last couple of games. I think we have a great environment to develop young talent - team play, full effort required to compete, and a good mix of experience and youth.
I'm hoping we ride all of these guys until the summer and we stay in the playoff hunt at least to the last couple of games. I think we have a great environment to develop young talent - team play, full effort required to compete, and a good mix of experience and youth.
I'm happily surprised with Moore's overall development. I didn't like it when Howson chose him (I had to think long and hard about the value of a puck moving defenceman to feel okay about it), but his defence has been much better.
I didn't think he was a good offensive prospect in his junior year (maybe I was blinded by Savard's stats), and I didn't expect him to develop offensive skill later, and I still don't. Moore just doesn't think "Offence", and you're always going to have better powerplay options so he'll probably top out as a 20 pt defenceman who gets most of his value from skating the puck out of trouble and making simple plays.
I do have some concern that he won't quite be shutdown quality, nor powerplay quality or other offensive contribution, and will be just a taller version of Kris Russell. I already like him more than Russell but it's a similar kind of trap. Looking at our top 10-11 defencemen (both now and anticipating several years ahead), we have some wonderful options to fill various roles, but I can't see Moore definitely filling any one role.
That's why, yes, I would consider moving him in a package for a top-line forward.
I didn't think he was a good offensive prospect in his junior year (maybe I was blinded by Savard's stats), and I didn't expect him to develop offensive skill later, and I still don't. Moore just doesn't think "Offence", and you're always going to have better powerplay options so he'll probably top out as a 20 pt defenceman who gets most of his value from skating the puck out of trouble and making simple plays.
I do have some concern that he won't quite be shutdown quality, nor powerplay quality or other offensive contribution, and will be just a taller version of Kris Russell. I already like him more than Russell but it's a similar kind of trap. Looking at our top 10-11 defencemen (both now and anticipating several years ahead), we have some wonderful options to fill various roles, but I can't see Moore definitely filling any one role.
That's why, yes, I would consider moving him in a package for a top-line forward.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Moore is a solid, well-rounded d-man who can skate, move the puck (if not provide as much offense as we'd like) and play dependable minutes in the d-zone. Personally, I see him as a future partner with Murray on the top pair.
But, I could also see trading him if the scenario is right. Of course, his presence makes other players tradeable instead, too.
But, I could also see trading him if the scenario is right. Of course, his presence makes other players tradeable instead, too.
Arch City Zach
Registered User
Maybe I don't truly understand the game, but I easily see him as being the next Tyutin, but less offensive skills and more defensive. You tend to see Toots in every situation (5 on 5, PP and PK). I don't think he'll put up more than 25-30 points a season at best, but you'll feel a lot more comfortable with him defensively than you are Tyutin.
IMO, John Moore is Rusty Klesla 2.0. Klesla was touted as an offensive defenseman coming out of the USHL and never panned out, improved his defense and was a solid NHL player here. Moore is a better skater and passer than Klesla, maybe not as physical, but I think that he'll be fine as he continues to grow into his body. It doesn't hurt to have players like him. If I were pressed to choose between Moore and say Nikitin, I might be inclined to keep Moore.
Defenseman A)
First 82 games in the league
3 12 15
Defenseman B)
First 82 games in the league
2 6 8
Defenseman C)
First 82 games in the league
2 7 9
One of these players won the Norris Trophy. Another of the players was a Norris candidate who was considered one of the best offensive defensemen. The third is John Moore.
This is normally where I would talk about patience, how defensemen take a while to develop, and that it doesn't make sense to assume he'll follow Klesla's or Russell's path.
But this is new agreeable Skraut, so Moore=Klessell 2.0
First 82 games in the league
3 12 15
Defenseman B)
First 82 games in the league
2 6 8
Defenseman C)
First 82 games in the league
2 7 9
One of these players won the Norris Trophy. Another of the players was a Norris candidate who was considered one of the best offensive defensemen. The third is John Moore.
This is normally where I would talk about patience, how defensemen take a while to develop, and that it doesn't make sense to assume he'll follow Klesla's or Russell's path.
But this is new agreeable Skraut, so Moore=Klessell 2.0
cbjgirl
Just thinking
My (slight) problem with this comparison is that either Moore doesn't have as many brain farts as early years Klesla (thus making the comparison a bit bad) or Moore has the speed to make up for his mistakes much better than Rusty.
I think John Moore is a blossoming player. He can skate well, plays really good defense, and makes great exit passes from the zone (when he isnt skating it out on his own). I see him continuing to get better and better and being one of our best defensemen for years to come. I certainly hope he isn't trade bait, I think he has the highest ceiling of all of our young defensemen (besides murray, unsure on him).
As for his offense, so what it isn't anything above average? He is developing great stay at home skills while learning when to skate it out of trouble. Keep him, he is a big part of our future D. In fact I love watching Erixon and Moore playing together in hopes they create great chemistry and can be a fantastic two way pair.
As for his offense, so what it isn't anything above average? He is developing great stay at home skills while learning when to skate it out of trouble. Keep him, he is a big part of our future D. In fact I love watching Erixon and Moore playing together in hopes they create great chemistry and can be a fantastic two way pair.
Good post. To the naked eye, his ability to skate stands out foremost. I think he has great potential, maybe top pairing. I'm hoping we retain him, Erixon, and Murray. I think thats a solid future core, home grown, and affordable with ELC's.
I don't have the stats to back up my assertions as Skraut did, but I feel much the same way. What he shows in his game is very good. As stated, he can skate really well and on several occasions he has skated from the back end to the blue line with the puck and managed a pass play. Very good sign since most of our entries into the zone seem to be dump and chase. Very good outlet passes, not many shots. That goes for most of our back except for Wiz and JJ.
If he keeps on the path I think we'll have a good Dman on our hands. I don't expect him to light the world, but he can move the puck so I expect a lot of assists in the future moreso than goals...
If he keeps on the path I think we'll have a good Dman on our hands. I don't expect him to light the world, but he can move the puck so I expect a lot of assists in the future moreso than goals...
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
- 43,673
- 26,712
I think Moore lacks confidence with the puck. He skates it up for like 2 seconds and immediately looks to dump in or pass it off. Nobody even tries to stop him when he has it.
The dude is like 12 in NHL defensemen years. I'm not prepared to say what his game has translated to or not. He just now is over a full season in games played.
We can start talking about what has translated over for your name sake. But, it might be 3 more seasons before we see what Moore will really become. I don't think we have a 50 point player on our hands (but I didn't think that at the time we drafted him either), but I'm certainly not going to pass judgements yet. Far too soon for that.
Dr. Fire
What, me worry?
I don't think you can use this seasons D offensive stats as a baseline for any of them. Richards has them playing a strict defensive scheme, and the D-men are playing it safe most of the time. I am not saying that they never pinch, but they are not taking chances like they might under other circumstances. Richards goal is to keep odd man rushes against us to a minimum, due to our offensive ineptitude, and that won't get our D big points.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but I remember John being billed as a smooth skating defenseman with a good first pass out of the zone, not necessarily as an offensive threat.
Crede777
Deputized
- Dec 16, 2009
- 14,841
- 4,558
I posted this last July (almost a year ago) and think it still holds true:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=51871623&postcount=8Crede777 said:
It's a good point, and it has me questioning whether I'm being too impatient with Moore. I wonder what those other two players (who you regrettably left unnamed) looked like in their first two years.
Some young defencemen have the tools and try really hard to produce offence but just can't get their shots through or can't set up the forwards quite right. I'm not really seeing that with Moore, he doesn't have the go for it instinct. John Moore has the ambition of a bottom-pair defenceman.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
I can say that Mike Green's development (he is one of those players) took a very similar path, and had many of the same questions as Moore. What I don't see is Mike Green having much longevity, especially with some injury troubles and the cooling off of the Caps' young forward core. I don't see the same type of production/ceiling for John Moore, but he could still develop into a serviceable top 4/second unit powerplay guy. Something we don't have a huge abundance of, surely.
Xoggz22
Registered User
John Moore is probably the best skater on the current team. Not only that he also seems to fit the "mold" that JK and JD are looking for....He thinks the game at a pretty high level from what I can see. Good skating, smart player = faster game. John Moore fits what this team is intended to become. So does Murray and Erixon. I don't think you move any of those three personally.
Goloubef also appears to fit this mold but may not be the high end type guy the other three seem to have the potential for.
Goloubef also appears to fit this mold but may not be the high end type guy the other three seem to have the potential for.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
I agree that you don't trade Erixon, Moore, or Murray. I also like what Goloubef brings, think he could develop into a Adam McQuaid type of defender. Remember when he was CBJ property?
I would say his skating ability gets him out of alot of trouble that his lack of hockey sense gets him into.
Matthew
OK Boomer
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Circulartheory
Registered User
Wild fan here.
I just don't get it, if he is showing good signs and developing well, why is he a healthy scratch in favor of guys like Aucoin and Prout? I want to see him in more games but always get frustrated to see him not suiting up.
I just don't get it, if he is showing good signs and developing well, why is he a healthy scratch in favor of guys like Aucoin and Prout? I want to see him in more games but always get frustrated to see him not suiting up.
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