Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi '18-19 Season Part II

[frag2]

So talk about Pulju then. Kid makes a great play against Pens keeping the puck in on the first Draisaitl goal. It was a good read and he used his size and strength to keep that one in. Drai doesn't score that first goal without it. Its a huge goal to get us on track. Puljujarvi isn't even awarded with an assist and a game later he's not even dressing.

Theres this false narrative Pulju has been doing nothing in the games. He's the most helpful winger Drai has had all season. He's finding ways to battle for the puck, keep it in. The Drai line was fine against Pens and the previous games, why break it up?

Its like McLellan doesn't even want players he dislikes to have success.

He does 1 or 2 things, maybe, but for the most part, disappears or struggles to keep up. That's the biggest problem.

My biggest beef with JP is the fact Chia straight up said drafting JP made it easier to trade Hall. JP hasn't lived up to being Hall's replacement at all. In 3 years, we haven't seen what he really is [aside from being goofy on ice] consistently enough. Posters can blame TMac [and he's not without warts] but JP is too damn inconsistent. One moment, he looks like he's gonna break out; next moment, he's worse than Yak.

 

[Former Referee 68]

Send him down why? We don't have other wingers that's better than him. His confidence is shot because the dumbass coach benches him when he plays well.

He isn't good now, this is a long term player, develop him. How is this a coaching issue? Does the coach go out there and pass up this middle ? Does the coach make lazy line changes? Does the coach stop skating when going into the pay? He needs to play lots and be able to make mistakes...hence the AHL

 

[Winland]

Trade proposal: Pulju & Koskinen to Carolina for Darling, Fleury, Zykov and 1st.

Do it.

 

[guymez]

He does 1 or 2 things, maybe, but for the most part, disappears or struggles to keep up. That's the biggest problem.

My biggest beef with JP is the fact Chia straight up said drafting JP made it easier to trade Hall. JP hasn't lived up to being Hall's replacement at all. In 3 years, we haven't seen what he really is [aside from being goofy on ice] consistently enough. Posters can blame TMac [and he's not without warts] but JP is too damn inconsistent. One moment, he looks like he's gonna break out; next moment, he's worse than Yak.

Just finished listening to a very good discussion by DeBrusk and Stauffer on Oilers Now.
Louie brought up an excellent point.
No one (not the coach...not his linemates) can stop Jesse from being the hardest working player on his line. Jesse hasnt done that.
That is 100% true.

That comment should end the Jesse discussion IMO.

If Jesse wants more then he has to work harder. Period.

 

[frag2]

Just finished listening to a very good discussion by DeBrusk and Stauffer on Oilers Now.
Louie brought up an excellent point.
No one (not the coach...not his linemates) can stop Jesse from being the hardest working player on his line. Jesse hasnt done that.
That is 100% true.

That comment should end the Jesse discussion IMO.

If Jesse wants more then he has to work harder. Period.

Yep. Basically reiterating what Simpson said last year. JP still sees the bigs as simply a game [rather than a job] and then when things didn't work the way he thought it would, sulked.

He might not get the 'best' opportunities but he sure hasn't run away with whatever is given to him. Onus is on him to prove his doubters, and boy there are many now, wrong.

 

[Soundwave]

Just finished listening to a very good discussion by DeBrusk and Stauffer on Oilers Now.
Louie brought up an excellent point.
No one (not the coach...not his linemates) can stop Jesse from being the hardest working player on his line. Jesse hasnt done that.
That is 100% true.

That comment should end the Jesse discussion IMO.

If Jesse wants more then he has to work harder. Period.

The problem with that is that's really not how skilled players ever view the game.

They have been raised their whole to make plays and impact the game that way. When that's not happening, they are kinda lost. Just how it works in hockey. "Harder work" really means go muck it up in the corners and hit harder, but if that's never been your game ... good luck being good at that at the snap of a finger.

The real issue he just doesn't seem to have right now the elite level NHL skill. His shot is not accurate enough to beat NHL goalies regularly, his puck skills are not good enough to dangle/elude NHL level defenders, his hockey I.Q. isn't high enough at this level so he's often in bad positions.

 

[PinSeeker]

So here is a cross section of ice time in major development year (typically year 2, first full year in NHL):
Rantanen 18 min/night
Nylander 16
Pastrnak 14
Barkov 17
Ehlers 17.5
Leon 18

JP this year 12.5. That... can't be the way to develop a player, can it? Every other player on that list got lucky somehow? Hmmm.

 

[McShogun99]

Are we making a trade to fill out the roster? Cause if you send them down then our right wing becomes right now Marody, Chiasson, Kassian

That was something that PC should have thought of in the off season. There were cheap, veteran players available that could have kept these guys lower in the lineup.

 

[Soundwave]

That was something that PC should have thought of in the off season. There were cheap, veteran players available that could have kept these guys lower in the lineup.

Lets be honest the unspoken hope the Oilers front office had for this season is that Puljujarvi and Yamamoto would carry the RW scoring and bail them out.

 

[joestevens29]

Just finished listening to a very good discussion by DeBrusk and Stauffer on Oilers Now.
Louie brought up an excellent point.
No one (not the coach...not his linemates) can stop Jesse from being the hardest working player on his line. Jesse hasnt done that.
That is 100% true.

That comment should end the Jesse discussion IMO.

If Jesse wants more then he has to work harder. Period.

Pretty much.

No one is saying he has to be the best player on the team to get his playing chances. He just isn't exactly doing anything to separate himself from his competition.

 

[space321]

Just finished listening to a very good discussion by DeBrusk and Stauffer on Oilers Now.
Louie brought up an excellent point.
No one (not the coach...not his linemates) can stop Jesse from being the hardest working player on his line. Jesse hasnt done that.
That is 100% true.

That comment should end the Jesse discussion IMO.

If Jesse wants more then he has to work harder. Period.

Other players get more by working less hard than Jesse.

 

[McFlash97]

Lets be honest the unspoken hope the Oilers front office had for this season is that Puljujarvi and Yamamoto would carry the RW scoring and bail them out.

both just 20 years of age.

you cant have sh*** trash defense then supplement them with 20 year old wingers on your top 6 and expect to have a great season. Fix one at least

 

[joestevens29]

Lets be honest the unspoken hope the Oilers front office had for this season is that Puljujarvi and Yamamoto would carry the RW scoring and bail them out.

I wouldn't say carry it, but I think the hope was between Rattie, JP and KY that they'd have some sort of fits on the right side. At the end of the day I don't even think they care that much about line 1. There is already a solid pair there with RNH, they just need filler.

But line 2 was the issue. LD didn't have that fit on either side, so now there is more focus on the right side.

I'm sure if Lucic or Reider would click with LD they wouldn't be overly concerned and would give guys a longer leash on the second line. Fact is we don't have that and need guys that are at least accomplishing something in a game.

 

[joestevens29]

Other players get more by working less hard than Jesse.

Who exactly? And don't say Lucic as he was one of our best players on more than one occasion this year.

 

[Joey Moss]

So here is a cross section of ice time in major development year (typically year 2, first full year in NHL):
Rantanen 18 min/night
Nylander 16
Pastrnak 14
Barkov 17
Ehlers 17.5
Leon 18

JP this year 12.5. That... can't be the way to develop a player, can it? Every other player on that list got lucky somehow? Hmmm.

Puljujarvi is no where close to any of these players. Leon could think the game at the NHL level, it was a confidence thing with him. Not that JP couldn't use a confidence boost, but he sure as hell has a long way to go before being mentioned with any of those players.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Other players get more by working less hard than Jesse.

Other players like Lucic who has an entire NHL career to back him up?

Or Caggiula who doesn't actually get as much opportunity as people think?

 

[Soundwave]

I wouldn't say carry it, but I think the hope was between Rattie, JP and KY that they'd have some sort of fits on the right side. At the end of the day I don't even think they care that much about line 1. There is already a solid pair there with RNH, they just need filler.

But line 2 was the issue. LD didn't have that fit on either side, so now there is more focus on the right side.

I'm sure if Lucic or Reider would click with LD they wouldn't be overly concerned and would give guys a longer leash on the second line. Fact is we don't have that and need guys that are at least accomplishing something in a game.

They need really honestly 40 points each from Puljujarvi, Lucic, and maybe 30+ from Yamamoto. They're unlikely to get it. Probably more than that honestly, lol, but yeah.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

Puljujarvi is no where close to any of these players. Leon could think the game at the NHL level, it was a confidence thing with him. Not that JP couldn't use a confidence boost, but he sure as hell has a long way to go before being mentioned with any of those players.

About 6 minutes a game by the looks of it

 

[jeffff]

So here is a cross section of ice time in major development year (typically year 2, first full year in NHL):
Rantanen 18 min/night
Nylander 16
Pastrnak 14
Barkov 17
Ehlers 17.5
Leon 18

JP this year 12.5. That... can't be the way to develop a player, can it? Every other player on that list got lucky somehow? Hmmm.

1st 2 years:

Rantanen did nothing his 1st year (o in 9), 2nd year 20 goals 38 pts in 75 games
Pastrnak 53 pts 97 games (25 goals)
Nylander first year..13pts in 22 games (2nd 61 in 81)
Barkov 60 pts in 123 games
Ehlers 1st season 38 in 72 then 64 in 82 thats 102pts in 146
Leon did nothing first year then 51 in 72

Jesse:

1st year 8 pts in 28
2nd 20 in 65
So his first 2 years he has a whopping 28 pts in 73 games.

This year he has 1 pt in seven games. You want me to post year 3 totals for those 6 players you listed?

I like Jesse and I want him to succeed. He's had chances in the top two lines and you know what....he has done sweet fcuk all. The other players you mentioned have made much more of their opportunities thus their ice time, and therefore pts increase.

Do I think JP has been given the best chance to succeed..NO. But he makes it way too easy to not give him those chances.

I've never watched a player like JP before. He does weird/unusual things on the ice. His stick is always flying all over the place, its like he doesn't know how to control it. Its not like he skates around, looks like a hockey player and doesn't do anything. JP actually looks at times like someone who has never played hockey before (its odd!!) Bumbling, falling mishandling the puck.

I really what him to do well but I don't know...

I'd send him down. If he's so talented he should light it up in the minors....absolutely dominate. 1.5-2 pts per game. If he does that then awesome...if he doesn't, I'm scared he'll be a bust.

 

[FunkyChicken]

I don't question Oilers scouting as most scouts had Puljujarvi ranked 3rd overall. I do question the Oilers development. I believe that offensive prospects should be placed in offensive situations (scoring lines and power play) to further develop their scoring touch and confidence. If for whatever reason they are not getting offensive looks in the NHL, I think it is on the GM to place them in a league where they will. I found the same issue with Yakupov who should have spent time in the AHL. I'm not saying that Yakupov and now Puljujarvi would stars if this happened, but I think it would have increased their chances of success.

 

[joestevens29]

Other players like Lucic who has an entire NHL career to back him up?

Or Caggiula who doesn't actually get as much opportunity as people think?

From listening to people close to the team Caggiula seems to be a guy that teammates are really liking this year. He's made mistakes there's no doubt, but he goes out and has done things to fire up the bench

 

[Soundwave]

I don't question Oilers scouting as most scouts had Puljujarvi ranked 3rd overall. I do question the Oilers development. I believe that offensive prospects should be placed in offensive situations (scoring lines and power play) to further develop their scoring touch and confidence. If for whatever reason they are not getting offensive looks in the NHL, I think it is on the GM to place them in a league where they will. I found the same issue with Yakupov who should have spent time in the AHL. I'm not saying that Yakupov and now Puljujarvi would stars if this happened, but I think it would have increased their chances of success.

It's frustrating because aside from the one situation where Mac T took Leon over Bennett, it feels like if there's a ranked bust in the top 10 .... some how, some way, we find a way to select that player.

But when the ranking would work to our favor (ie: Barzal), we go off the board, lol. It just never ends.

 

[CycloneSweep]

1st 2 years:

Rantanen did nothing his 1st year (o in 9), 2nd year 20 goals 38 pts in 75 games
Pastrnak 53 pts 97 games (25 goals)
Nylander first year..13pts in 22 games (2nd 61 in 81)
Barkov 60 pts in 123 games
Ehlers 1st season 38 in 72 then 64 in 82 thats 102pts in 146
Leon did nothing first year then 51 in 72

Jesse:

1st year 8 pts in 28
2nd 20 in 65
So his first 2 years he has a whopping 28 pts in 73 games.

This year he has 1 pt in seven games. You want me to post year 3 totals for those 6 players you listed?

I like Jesse and I want him to succeed. He's had chances in the top two lines and you know what....he has done sweet fcuk all. The other players you mentioned have made much more of their opportunities thus their ice time, and therefore pts increase.

Do I think JP has been given the best chance to succeed..NO. But he makes it way too easy to not give him those chances.

I've never watched a player like JP before. He does weird/unusual things on the ice. His stick is always flying all over the place, its like he doesn't know how to control it. Its not like he skates around, looks like a hockey player and doesn't do anything. JP actually looks at times like someone who has never played hockey before (its odd!!) Bumbling, falling mishandling the puck.

I really what him to do well but I don't know...

I'd send him down. If he's so talented he should light it up in the minors....absolutely dominate. 1.5-2 pts per game. If he does that then awesome...if he doesn't, I'm scared he'll be a bust.

Those other players also forced the issue.

Hell Nylander and Marner both spent time on the 4th line cause they were shitting the bed and still looked great and forced their way up

 

[BudBundy]

How you explain that TSN NHL prospect analyst Craig Button has given a lot hard critic to Oilers rushing Puljujarvi's development and bring him too early to NHL.

Button is former NHL GM so he isn't some guy who talks bull**** without any competence.
It was Button who said Oilers doesn't have even clear development plan to Puljujarvi.

Even YLE sport's NHL reporter Tommi Seppälä wrote column last week and he mentioned in that column if Jesse doesn't show any progress during this season then it will mean that Oilers will face major changes in their management staff.

Chiarelli's ass is on the line already and McLellan is next.
Personally i won't be surprised if / when Chiarelli and McLellan will get fired of their jobs next offseason.

Craig Button probably wasnt wrong about the Oilers bringing in Puljujarvi too soon but that horse left the barn two years ago. In the here and now, all I want is for Todd to support Puljujarvi better. I think he can reap the rewards. I fear his stubbornness will rule the day and Jesse will have to succeed without a coach in his corner.

 

[space321]

Other players like Lucic who has an entire NHL career to back him up?

Or Caggiula who doesn't actually get as much opportunity as people think?

I actually am not a Caggiula hater, he's a scapegoat on this sub just like Jesse is right now.

But yah Lucic. Doesn't matter how his career went, he still spent an entire season on the top 6 and scored 1 goal in 40 games. No backlash, no scratch, no demotion. Talk about accountability.