Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman: VII - agreed to 8 x 8.25 aav

[smithformeragent]

One could make the argument that we're beating a dead horse here.

So be it. Discuss, if you so choose. We'll keep all the Swayman talk contained to this thread.

If you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the conversation, move along.

We will not have this devolve into thread hijacking and flaming of other posters.

@Gee Wally

We have numerous deletions and more in here. We know tension and emotions are high.
But you folks must simply stop taking personal shots at each. Stay to topic.

If not we will be left with no choice other than adding thread bans.

Click to read more...

 

[SwayHeyKid]

What is noticeable is that there has been no noise of another team sniffing around with an interest in paying what Swayman is supposedly looking for and giving up the compensation picks ( likely 2 firsts, a second and a third)

At some point in a negotiation you end up painting yourself into a corner..... sit out the year, explore Europe or the KHL or try to get a face saving raise to $8.25 AAV ($66m)

Going to be an interesting next few days

I think the Bruins would prob rather work out a hockey deal then just getting picks at this point in time. Would almost certainly need another NHL caliber goalie.

 

[KrejciWinger]

Sway will have a great career in California.

Ride Korpi for a miracle season and then give Ullmark 7 mil in the summer.

 

[the negotiator]

I think the Bruins would prob rather work out a hockey deal then just getting picks at this point in time. Would almost certainly need another NHL caliber goalie.

Agree...the problem is in the RFA world if a team does make an offer the two choices tend to be match or take the compensation ...the Hamilton deal was an exception where Burke called with a heads up and they worked out a deal. Depends on who the other GM is and what type of relationship he has with Sweeney.,

 

[gvkmedia]

My thought is that Neely publicly put the final offer out there. Gross may have received a 62 million dollar offer but is asking for 75 million. So Gross response is right. Neely just made a statement.

How will this end?

Swayman will force Gross to accept the 8 x 8 with a small “penalty” for public negotiation conduct.

Expect the deal to go down in under a week. 8 x 8.1 million.
Book it.

 

[JEM28]

Who knows, both could essentially be telling a version of the truth. could be that 64 wasn’t specifically stated prior but that figure was in the middle of a
Bs offer and an Swayman ask and Bs said meet in the middle and we have a deal….so 64 implied. The Neely comment today is a weird way of memorializing where the Bs stand.

All that said, it’s to the point now I don’t know if they get this done.

 

[Babajingo]

Anyone that thinks Neely is some masterful negotiator, Hah.
I don't blame either side. Swayman has some leverage and the Bruins do.
I'm more scared that they can't work it out and Sweeny will have to trade.
Oh and your tandem is one of the worse goalies in the league and a good prospect with 0 NHL games.

 

[Beyonder]

While the Bruins could ship Swayman to any team that will offer them what they want, that team will want to know if Swayman would actually sign with them. Are they willing to pay him what he wants? Does he want to sign there? You could look at a team like Anaheim... is Swayman going to sign up to be there for 8 years?

So it has to work for all parties. The Bruins, Swayman, the acquiring team. I just doubt that there is a team that can check all the boxes at this time of year. Which is one of the big reasons I'm assuming things eventually get sorted out with Boston.

Welcome to having our own Mitch Marner, well in one regard: A player who might push the contract envelope and help nudge his team towards a less than ideal cap situation. Leafs fans do not like him as much as they might if he hadn't held their feet to the fire. But of course Swayman is not Marner in that he doesn't suck in big games

 

[DackellDuck]

So an agent is a scumbag for doing his job well and getting his client more money from an employer than they wanted to pay? I hope the next time you get offered a raise at work you refuse it and tell them you make more than enough…

People say this all the time but it’s not really a good comparison. In the NHL, the employer is capped in how much they can spend, and in this case, the team is going to be spending to the max. So when one player asks for more, they’re not forcing the team to pay more. They’re forcing the team to pay someone else, one of their colleagues, less.

The more suitable comparison would be: Imagine your employer offers you a healthy raise. But it’s not enough for you. So you go to them and say, I want an extra 25k and I want you to take it from Sally’s salary and give it to me instead. I deserve more and she deserves less. And if you have to lay Sally off to pay me, that’s fine too.

Would that make you an asshole?

 

[JAD]

So a few things.

Sounds like Neely wasn't truthful (shocker)
Sounds like Gross was overdramatic (shocker)
Sounds like the 6.5 and 9.5 may have both been very close to starting offers
Sounds like the B's are making more of an effort to reach a deal
Sounds like the B's view him close to Saros and a notch below Hellebuyck
Sounds like Swayman views himself closer to Vaz and Bob
Sounds like it may drag out close to the deadline
Sounds like a trade has a better chance of happening with each passing week
Sounds like Neely made a huge mistake today and things may be irrepairable

I think it was calculated by Neely...
Hypothetical:
Sweeney may have said to Neely later , 'I wish you hadn't done that.'
To which Neely replies, "That's okay, I'll take the heat for it. 64 million is a damn good offer. Best we can do. At least now we will know if he's apart of the team or not and we can move on."

 

[Beyonder]

But afaik Neely didn't say anything about the number he was intimating ($64M) being their best or final offer. Why try to characterize it that way? It can be bad enough that he opted to get into alleged details with the media, there's no need to exaggerate this miscalculation on his part (IMO).

 

[EXTRAS]

SJS would have a pretty good core to work around if they managed to get swayman cheaply: askarov+pick

Mac Celebrini
Will Smith
Will Eklund
Sam Dickinson
Swayman

Couple wingers and couple dmen and they are set.

 

[Beyonder]

I think it was calculated by Neely...
Hypothetical:
Sweeney may have said to Neely later , 'I wish you hadn't done that.'
To which Neely replies, "That's okay, I'll take the heat for it. 64 million is a damn good offer. Best we can do. At least now we will know if he's apart of the team or not and we can move on."

This sounds like "President Reagan, Mastermind" on SNL. Or in other words, I'm not sure I believe that Neely is up to spinning such a Machiavellian web.

 

[JAD]

But afaik Neely didn't say anything about the number he was intimating ($64M) being their best or final offer. Why try to characterize it that way? It can be bad enough that he opted to get into alleged details with the media, there's no need to exaggerate this miscalculation on his part (IMO).

What is max the Bruins can go without disrupting the current roster? 64mil or 8per yr is pretty close to max.

 

[Beyonder]

SJS would have a pretty good core to work around if they managed to get swayman cheaply: askarov+pick

Could be an intriguing trade partner. I have no idea how Askarov compares to Swayman though, as far as upside, so I defer to others about that. It would have to be a pretty good pick, like a 2025 1st.

But do you really think Swayman is interested in signing with a team that finished dead last this past season? They do have some very interesting prospects but probably also several years to go before they get a whiff of the playoffs.

I don't know, maybe he would do it especially if they would meet his asking price.

But again, I see the chances of him being traded at about 2%.

What is max the Bruins can go without disrupting the current roster? 64mil or 8per yr is pretty close to max.

If they have to find a million or 2 to shave off the roster, and if they are happy to sign Swayman at whatever figure, they'd do it. I don't think they are so in love with every player on the roster that they would let Swayman sit before axing somebody. I think this is much more about how much Boston *wants* to pay Swayman, not how much they *can* pay Swayman.

 

[BiteThisBurrows]

On the other side is Swayman not going to sign with a team he's traded to and thus keep not earning money and not playing hockey? He's an RFA not a UFA. He wants more than 8 million there might not be anywhere for him to play. If you were him would you sit for a year and earn nothing? Maybe a bridge deal in his new home but can't see him holding out and not playing. He'd be throwing a lot of
money and prime year(s) away.

Most likely any trade would involve a future considerations type package where a pick becomes a 1st or something if he signs. So I'd think a top 6 forward, maybe a backup goalie and a conditional top pick. If they can't get that then well, they (and us) lose big time on the deal.

Best case scenario he signs this week for that 8x8 alluded to.

In the meantime, regarding Korpisalo, people need to remember that there were a lot of raised eyebrows when they signed Ullmark and initially he struggled and people said "fire Sweeney" and then down the road we had a Vezina. Korpisalo's track record isn't all that different from what Ullmark's was when he came here. Have faith.

 

[dugg133]

I'm sure it is not helping at all that the Bruins will need to cut some $ from the payroll to fit in Swayman at any of these higher $ AAVs we're hearing about. They're dancing on the knife edge at $8M. If it's (much) more than that, they not only have to swallow an AAV pill they don't want to, they also need to carve out room at the expense of the roster.

So... it's not just a matter of signing Swayman it's also a matter of making peace with whatever 2024 roster fallout ensues. How would people feel if they get Swayman done... but need to deal somebody pronto making $1-2M or more per? I don't find it ideal to have Korpisalo around at his cap hit. That's a double edged sword. On the one hand, he is insurance (if you say so) if Swayman isn't in net. On the other hand, his cap hit makes it harder to make the cap/roster work once Swayman is signed.

If I have the scenario wrong, I'm sure somebody will correct me.

we can make anything up to 8.5mil work without cutting salary and still keep a full 23 man roster IIRC. They can make 9,5mil just barely work if they run a 22 man roster by sending Poitras down.

 

[LiseL]

Just now from Friedman:


SO WHERE ARE WE?

Until Monday, this is where I believe everything stood:

• Neely said he directly asked Swayman if the goalie wished to be a Bruin, and the answer was a resounding yes. I’m under the impression Swayman has always pushed for maximum term. After initially offering contracts of various lengths, the Bruins were satisfied with Swayman’s response and focused on eight years.

• Despite that, the two sides remain so far apart on salary that this won’t be solved unless player or team completely caves in or changes their minds. I’ve heard some softening of positions, but the gap was millions per season to start with.

• Gross’s statement claims that, prior to the media conference, the Bruins never got to $64M. I think they were close, maybe around $60M-$62M. Swayman/Gross probably aren’t as annoyed about the number itself as they are about it being mentioned in the first place. I read what Neely said as this: “We’re going to 64 and no farther. That’s it.” We will see. David Pastrnak pushed the Bruins farther than they wanted to go, but he was unrestricted. Swayman saw that success, but he is restricted.

• Two weeks ago, I started to hear rumours of a possible trade. The Bruins wouldn’t comment, but it was clear they told teams they weren’t considering it and wanted to keep him. Again, we will see if anything has changed. Remember, other teams are allowed to speak to Swayman because he’s an unsigned free agent. They know what he wants.

...

We know Swayman wants to be a Bruin, albeit on his terms, and we’re not anywhere close to that. For the moment, however, money is secondary. During this pause, he must ask himself, “Can I move past the bitterness of this negotiation?”

If the answer is yes, he can be a Bruin. An excellent one. If the answer is no, he will flourish somewhere else.

What comes next in Bruins, Swayman standoff?

Cam Neely and the Boston Bruins made headlines when he commented on the standoff between the team and Jeremy Swayman. Elliotte Friedman has some thoughts on where the two parties can go from here.

www.sportsnet.ca

But he's not a UFA (unsigned free agent). Other teams would have to do an offer sheet as Bruins have his rights. Maybe he meant that other teams are allowed to talk to him which could open up trade possibilities. Friedman is usually a lot clearer than that.

 

[JAD]

SJS would have a pretty good core to work around if they managed to get swayman cheaply: askarov+pick

Mac Celebrini
Will Smith
Will Eklund
Sam Dickinson
Swayman

Couple wingers and couple dmen and they are set.

I would take Askarov, a pick(would like a 1st, 25 or 26), and a proven wing or center ... but I would want all 3 in return. Then use whatever cap space is left to improve the team in other areas. Askarov has a lot of potential he might be ready for a backup roll or may still need some time.
That is assuming Swayman's camp refused to budge.

 

[BruinDust]

I wouldn't be shocked at all if Sweeney doesn't already have an agreed upon trade deal from his buddy Bill Guerin out in Minnesota.

 

[Beyonder]

Isn't one of the tricky realities for the player who is facing sitting out part (or more) of a season, and not making *any* NHL salary, how far you go with that before you are eating up any gains you would get by pushing the team to raise their offer? I'm feeling too lazy to do the math, but if Swayman rejects an $8M AAV offer and sits out until December 1, how much does he need to get that offer raised just to get the total deal back to $64M? And if he sat out the whole season? When does it become a lost cause?

Seems like their has to be a calculus about how far to take this before it becomes impossible to do better (actual dollar earned over the term).

But c'mon, isn't there some shenanigans way to structure this contract to balance the different objectives of the parties?

 

[NORY]

Gross claims they never even received a $64m offer to reject. If he’s lying then the bruins should absolutely report him and cause him to lose his license to be an agent.

If there was a deal there is some form of written communication about it. It can easily be proven that a contract was given.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840888667738341758

Odd wording, he says it's the first time it's been discussed in the negotiations. Making me feel like there was some discussion, maybe earlier that day? But then says no offer has been made reaching that level. Making me feel like no official offer was made. So in a sense both could be telling the truth if the offer was verbally made today but not in writing Gross wouldn't be obligated to disclose to Swayman until he received something official. Also says it's unfair to Jeremy which makes sense if they haven't had time to even talk it over before Neely released it to the press.

 

[Beyonder]

we can make anything up to 8.5mil work without cutting salary and still keep a full 23 man roster IIRC. They can make 9,5mil just barely work if they run a 22 man roster by sending Poitras down.

Thanks.

So how would people feel if Swayman gets signed but at a figure that requires sending Poitras down? At least for now, I would assume they'd find a way to free up some $ as the season goes on, or LTIR happens or whatever.

Or maybe, are you happier with Korpisalo + Poitras OR Swayman?

Neither seems very attractive really.

 

[TD Charlie]

But he's not a UFA (unsigned free agent). Other teams would have to do an offer sheet as Bruins have his rights. Maybe he meant that other teams are allowed to talk to him which could open up trade possibilities. Friedman is usually a lot clearer than that.

He is unsigned. He is not unrestricted.

 

[LiseL]

On the other side is Swayman not going to sign with a team he's traded to and thus keep not earning money and not playing hockey? He's an RFA not a UFA. He wants more than 8 million there might not be anywhere for him to play. If you were him would you sit for a year and earn nothing? Maybe a bridge deal in his new home but can't see him holding out and not playing. He'd be throwing a lot of
money and prime year(s) away.

Most likely any trade would involve a future considerations type package where a pick becomes a 1st or something if he signs. So I'd think a top 6 forward, maybe a backup goalie and a conditional top pick. If they can't get that then well, they (and us) lose big time on the deal.

Best case scenario he signs this week for that 8x8 alluded to.

In the meantime, regarding Korpisalo, people need to remember that there were a lot of raised eyebrows when they signed Ullmark and initially he struggled and people said "fire Sweeney" and then down the road we had a Vezina. Korpisalo's track record isn't all that different from what Ullmark's was when he came here. Have faith.

I have to dispute that. Ullmark's SV% with Buffalo was .905, they were the worst team in the league at the time. Korpi only put up those types of numbers 2 or 3 out of 9 years playing behind good teams as a back-up. I do think Korpi will be better with Boston due to their D, team play and goalie coach Bob, but Ullmark came in as a better goalie from the get go. He improved in Boston to Vezina level. I'd be surprised if Korpi ever reaches that level, but you never know.

 

[JAD]

we can make anything up to 8.5mil work without cutting salary and still keep a full 23 man roster IIRC. They can make 9,5mil just barely work if they run a 22 man roster by sending Poitras down.

Yeah, I don't see that happening. It would handcuff the team and management's ability to make moves or even ice the team they were expecting. Never mind injuries and the trade deadline for improvements. They need some sort of flexibility.
Plus, it would kind of make this year a wash ... having to ice whatever we have left and hope for the best. Do you have any idea how frustrated we as fans would become with management because we have no cap space to make any type of move.