Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman: VII- Management Speaks

[Oates2Neely]

Btw for the "Neely is lying" group, present motive. What's the motive? If you lie there you risk destroying the negotiation forever and losing the goalie. That's the plan?

Gross lying on the other hand, makes total sense if you're holding out for 9-10M, and you see all of Boston lose their minds that 8x8 wasn't enough

So we are being led to believe that the Bruins didn’t offer 64m (because it’s too much?), but then suddenly Neely lies and blurts out 64m that he never offered? So assuming this is correct, and Gross & Swayman accept, the team has to pay Swayman the 64m that they thought was too high? It makes no sense.

Likely scenario: Gross was caught with his pants down trying to play hardball with no leverage. Neely was fed up and let it be known. All day Swayman gets rolled on the socials, & now Gross claims this deal was never on table, hoping to salvage this offer. Otherwise he sits the season out.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

He said…he said…

 

[Terrier]

Conroy: Cam Neely puts his cards on the table

“I don’t want to get into the weeds with what his ask is but I have 64 million reasons why I’d be playing right now,” said Cam Neely on the Jeremy Swayman negotiations.

www.bostonherald.com

 

[Guelph Bruin]

But why not just OFFER 8x8? The risk reward profile in this theory is terrible

Because I like the evil genius angle ... adds to the drama ...but yes I concede the more likely option is $64 million was verbally offered and Gross neglected to tell Sway because the greedy prick thought he would get more .... which may still end up in Gross fired and Sway signed ..win win

 

[KrejciMVP]

64 million says Neely. Bad look for sway

 

[DiggityDog]

Hmm who to believe? The guy who is honest to a fault?

Or the notoriously difficult to deal with player agent?

That’s a toughy

 

[Dr Quincy]

Ok heres what scares me now:

Neely, having just conceded and approved going to 8, drops that out of frustration in the conference and Sway’s camp truly hasn’t heard that number yet

That, if true, is Cam directly hurting Swayman out of emotion - which we know he has lots of

I’m currently higher than the moon but someone walk me back off this branch

I'll take any opportunity to post Imelda May

 

[Shroud of Orrin]

I’d like to see some video shots of Charlie’s and Don’s expressions when Cam says the 64M figure. Unfortunately it zooms in on Cam…I believe they made the offer. Why on earth.

 

[kdog82]

Gross is a loser. Did the same thing with the Nylander negotiations years ago.

 

[goldenblack]

So we are being led to believe that the Bruins didn’t offer 64m (because it’s too much?), but then suddenly Neely lies and blurts out 64m that he never offered? So assuming this is correct, and Gross & Swayman accept, the team has to pay Swayman the 64m that they thought was too high? It makes no sense.

Likely scenario: Gross was caught with his pants down trying to play hardball with no leverage. Neely was fed up and let it be known. All day Swayman gets rolled on the socials, & now Gross claims this deal was never on table, hoping to salvage this offer. Otherwise he sits the season out.

bingo

 

[danpantz]

Literally the only scenario that makes sense is Gross not telling Swayman about the offer.

What benefit would Neely have by lying about it.

 

[ON3M4N]

You seem intent on being disingenuous. Perhaps that’s why everyone has broken off discussions with you. I didn’t mention details, you did. I said talk about his contract, which includes arbitration. Same goes for Gross. You know exactly what I’m referring to. With that said, I’m done with your deceitful tact.

You said he's discussed negotiations. What do you see as negotiations? All he's said this summer is what I quoted before. Last season he was asked about arbitration when he was announced as an all-star, and he said.....

“There’s no ill will on the process, because I understand that. I’m not the first player to go through it,” Swayman said of going through arbitration in August. “I’m not the last. But I definitely don’t wish it upon any of my friends and teammates moving forward and I don’t want to do it ever again as well. So grateful I went through it.”

To me negotiations are things that are said by each side, its numbers, its details if the private conversations between he and the Bruins. He said none of those things and his comments are a giant nothing burger. He didn't say anything about arbitration that most fans didn't already know.

 

[UncleRico]

Hmm who to believe? The guy who is honest to a fault?

Or the notoriously difficult to deal with player agent?

That’s a toughy

Honest to a fault? Did you forget the Mitchell miller saga that was riddled with lies from the bruins front office?

I won’t trust either side until a contract is officially signed.

 

[nORRis8]

View attachment 911156

NGL, I am very surprised by this so far.

That changed after the Presser.
Bridge Deal was ahead prior when I voted (which was trade)

Neely clearly looked frustrated (interrupting Don saying "I was surprised" of what was being asked) plus he might have run out of water bottles to throw.

 

[Mione134]

This is a mess.

Which is why a deal should of been on the table BEFORE Linus got traded.

It's getting ugly.

 

[Scotto74]

It's a negotiation, not a game of comparable contract one-upmanship.

You mean to tell me Lewis Gross can't challenge Don Sweeney and ask him why he doesn't value his client Swayman as much as he does Lindholm based on the offers made? What does Don Sweeney say when Gross asks him why he is willing to pay Lindholm 7.75 over 7 at age 29 coming off two down seasons but only willing to pay 25-year old Swayman 8 x 8 after a strong season?

Sweeney says to Gross Swayman is still unproven. Gross then counters with you didn't have a problem with that when it came to McAvoy's deal. See how that works?

What is Sweeney's reaction to Gross bringing up contracts offered and signed by Sweeney himself to position players? Does he kick him out of the room? Does he hang up the phone? Does he end the conference call?

You make it sound like there are rules to these negotiations and some topics like other contracts signed by the GM are out-of-bounds for the negotiation because those are skaters and not goaltenders. This isn't arbitration in front of some judge here. There are no rules as to what an agent and player can try to use to win their argument or frame their position.

Honestly if anyone is an agent and they aren't trying to drum up every argument in the book to try and get the best deal for their client they are doing it wrong. In this case, if I'm 25-year old Swayman I have a legitimate beef making a mere 1.75 million more than 29-year old Elias Lindholm over the next 7 years. That's an argument I think I can win so yes, I'll make that comparison. Once again, there are no rules to this.

Yeah, if I'm an agent in a hardball negotiation, you can be damn sure I'm bringing up contracts previously signed by my opposing GM. I don't think that is off-limits. Especially when those contracts are comparable in value to what your offering my client and the ink on those contracts isn't even dry yet.

If this was as simple as two parties negotiating off ONLY comparable goalie contracts, this issue is already resolved months ago, one way or the other.

Macavoys resume was totally different. He played the majority of 4 seasons and was the #1 Defenseman on a team that went to the stanly cup finals. If swaymans agent brings that up i start playing the song “one of these things is not like the other”.

Lindholm is again totally different at age 29 with 11 seasons and not an RFA.

You keep trying to compare apples to tuna fish. You would be laughed out of every negotiation in history trying to bring that crap in.

Again swayman know it “goalie market” his agent knows it. The bruins know it “reset the goalie market”. The entire business world knows it. Only you can’t accept it.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

He said…he said…

Swayman can tell his agent to get something done as well instead of a tantrum.

 

[Eddie Munson]

He said…he said…

Smells of BS

If he never got that offer before and it’s what they were looking for then you state “this is news to Jeremy and I. But we are happy to accept that dollar amount should conditions match my clients requests.” Checkmate as now the B’s are forced to offer that.

If Neely put that out into the ether it’s because he knew Gross’s only options are to get the contract signed or respond. This seems like a weak response to me.

 

[Oates2Neely]

This is going to look awful on Gross’ resume

 

[BruinDust]

We have quotes from Swayman about being mindful of future goaltending contracts and not being happy with his compariables during arbitration. . We have quotes from management about the comps they feel Swayman compares with in his peer group.Safe to say, they're using goaltending contracts to hash this out. I don't think I've ever heard of a goaltender trying to use a centerman's contract as a negotiate point but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Just flies in the face of everything we know about contract talks.

We know nothing about specific contract talks, but we should all know business negotiations can be ruthless (as we've seen today now from both sides), there are no rules in this, and if all this negotiation was a battle of goalie comparables like two posters going at each other on HF Boards, why has this taken so long to resolve? I mean seriously, there are only 60-odd goalies in the league and only I'd say 10-15 are realistic comparables. How long does it take for both sides to exhaust their list of comparables if all they can point to are goaltenders? They could of hashed this out in a week if that was the case.

Bottom line is Sweeney sent a message to the Swayman camp back in July when he decided to prioritize the Lindholm and Zadorov contracts and leaving what was left over for Swayman. The message was sent, we value these players from outside the organization more than you. That will ultimately prove to be a major mistake and flies in the face of pro sports management 101. Take care of your stars and the rest will fall into place. Prioritize mid-tier players over your stars and this will be the sort of circus you can expect. Right out of the Harry Sinden/Mike O'Connell playbook.

It's like when in the fall of 2020, they extended Kevan Miller and Chara was still unsigned. We knew right away that was odd, that they took care of Miller before Chara. And that is exactly how it played out.

The hockey world is laughing at the Bruins right now because it's clear as day now how this all ends. Some other organization will get themselves arguably the best young goalie on the planet for a nickel and two quarters.

Imagine the egg on Sweeney's face in April when he trades Swayman within the Eastern conference and both Swayman and Ullmark are leading their teams into the playoffs while the Bruins are going golfing.

 

[BTO]

Conroy: Cam Neely puts his cards on the table

“I don’t want to get into the weeds with what his ask is but I have 64 million reasons why I’d be playing right now,” said Cam Neely on the Jeremy Swayman negotiations.

www.bostonherald.com

Just a pet peeve of mine, because I’m increasingly seeing it everywhere, but Swayman’s agent didn’t “refute” the offer, he “disputed” it. To refute something is to *logically prove* that it’s false, not to claim that it’s false.

Same with “begging the question”. Begging the question is a logical fallacy in which you assume in the premises that which you intend to prove in the conclusions. It’s a form of circular logic. People should be saying “that raises the question” not “that begs the question”. End rant.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

Literally the only scenario that makes sense is Gross not telling Swayman about the offer.

What benefit would Neely have by lying about it.

Or the Bruins talking about making it and Sweeney never did?

Something weird somewhere.

 

[bp14]

This feels like two sides waging a semantics fight. Almost like they’re married for 20 years

 

[SwayHeyKid]

Just a pet peeve of mine, because I’m increasingly seeing it everywhere, but Swayman’s agent didn’t “refute” the offer, he “disputed” it. To refute something is to *logically prove* that it’s false, not to claim that it’s false.

Same with “begging the question”. Begging the question is a logical fallacy in which you assume in the premises that which you intend to prove in the conclusions. It’s a form of circular logic. People should be saying “that raises the question” not “that begs the question”. End rant.

I mean what would Gross have in hand from Boston to "refute" evidence wise? Tapes?

 

[BMC]

You have to wonder if Swayman has been seeing the actual numbers from the bruins

Shades of Alan Eagleson not telling Bobby Orr about the Bruins offer back in the day?

This guy Gross is an asshole & that's putting it mildly. I wouldn't put it past him to keep Swayman in ignorance.