Jamie Benn's Art Ross

[ESH]

Probably the most unexpected Art Ross win since St. Louis in 2004; Jamie Benn scored a hat-trick (+ an assist) on the last day of the season to secure the league scoring title.

The strange thing about this Art Ross win is that Benn never actually led the league in scoring until he won the Art Ross.

Is there any other case of this happening in NHL history? Maybe Forsberg in 2003? I'm not sure. NHL.com took away the ability to look at stats on a day-by-day basis, so I'm not sure of any way to confirm this.

 

[solidmotion]

nhl.com made that feature a little harder to find but it's still there & it looks like you are right about forsberg NHL.com Stats

 

[SeanConn]

nhl.com made that feature a little harder to find but it's still there & it looks like you are right about forsberg NHL.com Stats

Thanks

 

[bobholly39]

yeah Benn and Forsberg are the two such examples I know of.

Good on Benn though - he deserves it 100%. Nobody saw him winning - and you score 4 points in your last game, it's a helluva way to win.
Bad L for Crosby. He was facing the worst team in the league (worst in years) in his last game, and got shutout. It was his to lose, and he lost it. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even care about it either

 

[EXTRAS]

Markus Naslund had 104 going into last day of season and Forsberg had 103 going into last day of season. Nazzy got zero points and forsberg got 3 points.

Lemeiux had led earlier in the season but fell back due to injuries. Naslund passed him, but then forsberg passed nazzy last day.

 

[solidmotion]

2012-13 st. louis only took the lead from crosby on april 24 with 3 games left in the season.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Is there any other case of this happening in NHL history? Maybe Forsberg in 2003? I'm not sure. NHL.com took away the ability to look at stats on a day-by-day basis, so I'm not sure of any way to confirm this.

Correct - Forsberg only led the NHL in scoring during 2002-03 during the very last day of the season:

A Closer Look at the last 20 Ross Races ('94-'14)

(Tough day for Canucks fans! Naslund lost the Richard and Art Ross that day, and the team lost the division title).

 

[Nathaniel]

That’s the biggest L in Crosby’s career. . Shake my head when I think about it. 77 games is more than enough for a 27 year old Crosby.

 

[TheGuiminator]

That’s the biggest L in Crosby’s career. . Shake my head when I think about it. 77 games is more than enough for a 27 year old Crosby.

That’s my biggest knock about Sid : losing Art Ross races fair and square during his prime. It wouldn’t had bothered me that much if he had played full season in 2010-11 and 2012-13, since he would had won those quite easily. But now he stands at « only » 2 Rosses and 2 Hart, which is gonna be hard for him to separate himself from the other all time greats.

 

[hitman9172]

Correct - Forsberg only led the NHL in scoring during 2002-03 during the very last day of the season:

A Closer Look at the last 20 Ross Races ('94-'14)

(Tough day for Canucks fans! Naslund lost the Richard and Art Ross that day, and the team lost the division title).

Painful game to think about. Last game of the season. Canucks get shut out vs. LA and lose the division title to Colorado. Peter Forsberg passes Markus Naslund to take the Art Ross. Forsberg's linemate Milan Hejduk passes Naslund to take the Rocket Richard. Naslund gives his infamous "we choked" speech to the fans at GM Place after the game, only to choke harder 1 month later in the 2nd round vs Minnesota, blowing a 3-1 series lead in the process Ironically enough, Colorado had blown a 3-1 lead to Minnesota in the first round, after which Patrick Roy retired.

 

[daver]

That’s my biggest knock about Sid : losing Art Ross races fair and square during his prime. It wouldn’t had bothered me that much if he had played full season in 2010-11 and 2012-13, since he would had won those quite easily. But now he stands at « only » 2 Rosses and 2 Hart, which is gonna be hard for him to separate himself from the other all time greats.

Three points, 0.2% of his career point totals, shouldn't keep him behind any player on a GOAT list. That season was clearly affected by a viral illness in December (I know, another excuse but it is what it is.). Crosby will go down as the best player whose peak and prime was affected not just by injuries but the timing of them. Here is the run Crosby was on before that - 2013 thru to Dec. 2015:

NHL.com Stats

The other three forwards who are arguably still ahead of Crosby (Hull, Beliveau and Richard) for the #5 spot have four Art Rosses between them.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Three points, 0.2% of his career point totals, shouldn't keep him behind any player on a GOAT list. That season was clearly affected by a viral illness in December (I know, another excuse but it is what it is.).

The other three forwards who are arguably still ahead of Crosby (Hull, Beliveau and Richard) for the #5 spot have four Art Rosses between them.

Nah, it was clearly a choke job. Crosby was the point leader by April 1st 2015 with 80 points, 2nd being Ovechkin with 77 points. He just got caught up by Benn and Tavares the last week of the season. There's absolutely no excuse.

To the second bolded, imagine Crosby winning the Ross\Hart\Lindsay both in 2010-11 and 2012-13 in a more dominant fashion than his 2013-14 one, it adds TWO more strong Ross wins in low scoring seasons, it's a total game changer.

Under this scenario, he's a lock for top 5 all-time and in conversation with the big 4 by the end of his career (if everything goes the right way).

 

[daver]

Nah, it was clearly a choke job. Crosby was the point leader by April 1st 2015 with 80 points, 2nd being Ovechkin with 77 points. He just got caught up by Benn and Tavares the last week of the season. There's absolutely no excuse.

To the second bolded, imagine Crosby winning the Ross\Hart\Lindsay both in 2010-11 and 2012-13 in a more dominant fashion than his 2013-14 one, it adds TWO more strong Ross wins in low scoring seasons, it's a total game changer.

Under this scenario, he's a lock for top 5 all-time and in conversation with the big 4 by the end of his career (if everything goes the right way).

Again, you seem to be conflating him scoring four more points in 14/15 with him missing at least two opportunities to cement himself as the #5 player.

He is pacing for the #5 spot; four more points doesn't change this. Everyone should recognize that him playing 40 to 50 more games (3% of his career games) at specific times in his career would likely put him at #5 right now in many peoples minds.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Again, you seem to be conflating him scoring four more points in 14/15 with him missing at least two opportunities to cement himself as the #5 player.

He is pacing for the #5 spot; four more points doesn't change this. Everyone should recognize that him playing 40 to 50 more games (3% of his career games) at specific times in his career would likely put him at #5 right now in many peoples minds.

Missing 40-50 games at his peak is a lot, we're talking about nearly 80-90 more points and major individual trophies. It's a game changer

 

[Voight]

No disrespect to Benn but that year is a big blemish on Crosby's resume.

Hard to be in the discussion for #5 when you lose an Art Ross to the likes of Jamie Benn.

Also IIRC Tavares had a chance to tie or beat Been but he gave up an easy goal or assist..... something about helping one of his team mates.

 

[daver]

Missing 40-50 games at his peak is a lot, we're talking about nearly 80-90 more points and major individual trophies. It's a game changer

Of course it is, that's why I am differentiating it from 14/15 where even if he scored 4 more points, it was not going to be a Top 5 season for him. He was better last year, in 16/17, and in 15/16 just for starters.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Atleast with an Art Ross in 2014-15 you can claim he's the best offensive player of the league. Instead, it ended up being one of his worst seasons (by his standards). So again, the 4 extra points is still a game changer cause that gives him back to back Art Ross in that scenario

 

[TheGuiminator]

Of course it is, that's why I am differentiating it from 14/15 where even if he scored 4 more points, it was not going to be a Top 5 season for him. He was better last year, in 16/17, and in 15/16 just for starters.

Atleast with an Art Ross in 2014-15 you can claim he's the best offensive player of the league. Instead, it ended up being one of his worst seasons (by his standards). So again, the 4 extra points is still a game changer cause that gives him back to back Art Ross in that scenario

 

[daver]

Atleast with an Art Ross in 2014-15 you can claim he's the best offensive player of the league. Instead, it ended up being one of his worst seasons (by his standards). So again, the 4 extra points is still a game changer cause that gives him back to back Art Ross in that scenario

If you think that should hold him back from passing anyone but members of the Big Four then I am not sure what to tell you.

 

[TheGuiminator]

If you think that should hold him back from passing anyone but members of the Big Four then I am not sure what to tell you.

No that's not my point. What really hold him back was the incomplete seasons of 2010-11 and 2012-13. Then you add the numerous times he lost the Art Ross races fair and square (2010, 2015, 2016, 2017).

That said, having played full seasons in 2010-11 and 2012-13, I wouldn't really care about him losing in 2010, 2015, 2016 and 2017, cause he would already had 4 strong Art Ross in the bag.

 

[daver]

No that's not my point. What really hold him back was the incomplete seasons of 2010-11 and 2012-13. Then you add the numerous times he lost the Art Ross races fair and square (2010, 2015, 2016, 2017).

That said, having played full seasons in 2010-11 and 2012-13, I wouldn't really care about him losing in 2010, 2015, 2016 and 2017, cause he would already had 4 strong Art Ross in the bag.

I agree. It's your belief that his not winning in 14/15 is somehow on the same level as 10/11 and 12/13. Rest assured, knowledgeable hockey fans aren't going to hold him back from reaching #5 because he has "only" two Art Rosses. Beliveau only has one, and it's doubtful that one or two more that he could won due to injury puts him any farther ahead of Hull; the other usual #5 candidate.

Don't waste your time with anyone who uses the "only" two Art Ross argument.

 

[TheGuiminator]

I agree. It's your belief that his not winning in 14/15 is somehow on the same level as 10/11 and 12/13. Rest assured, knowledgeable hockey fans aren't going to hold him back from reaching #5 because he has "only" two Art Rosses. Beliveau only has one, and it's doubtful that one or two more that he could won due to injury puts him any farther ahead of Hull; the other usual #5 candidate.

Don't waste your time with anyone who uses the "only" two Art Ross argument.

Good advice, I ain't wasting anymore time, cause you clearly don't understand my point.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Jean Beliveau lost out to Bronco Horvath in his prime...everyone survived.

 

[MXD]

That’s my biggest knock about Sid : losing Art Ross races fair and square during his prime. It wouldn’t had bothered me that much if he had played full season in 2010-11 and 2012-13, since he would had won those quite easily. But now he stands at « only » 2 Rosses and 2 Hart, which is gonna be hard for him to separate himself from the other all time greats.

You're basically admitting that you really, really bother about a star player going pointless against an awful team in a meaningless game.

Also, see Mike Farkas point about Beliveau, Horvath.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Someome from Pittsburgh can enlighten me on this, but wasn't this "mini slump" for Crosby in 2015 and 2016 created by Mike Johnston?

Before Johnston was fired in 2015-2016, Crosby had 17 points in 25 games. That means he had 72 points in 55 games when Sullivan arrived to finish 2nd in Hart voting.