Jake Muzzin
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Darcy Tucker
My Name is Bob
Depends on the next step taken, but regardless it can't really go any worse.
option 1 - Play Less
Give more minutes to Sandin - Dermott, they've been good, only 2GA for Dermott. Soft usage but it's time to test them, if they show they can't handle it so what, Muzzin-Holl can't handle it either so there's no difference. Might as well try.
option 2 - sit him
Lily steps into the 3rd pair, Dermott gets a shot to translate bottom pair success to top 4 success and give the young guys a chance to gain experience, again can't go worse then it is.
option 3 - trade him
Reputation will keep his value high for a contender, cap makes things tricky but I'm sure it could be figured out. Use the cap space to bring in someone who still knows how to play hockey.
Darcy Tucker
My Name is Bob
Muzzin is a physical defender who isn't a great skater and is approaching 33. Unfortunately this was always a possibility when his contract was signed.
Personally I don't see Dubas willing to deal him. Plus he has a full NTC this year and next year with a modified NTC his final year. Dubas loves gives away NTC/NMC it seems so it will be hard to move any of the significant salaries
Personally I don't see Dubas willing to deal him. Plus he has a full NTC this year and next year with a modified NTC his final year. Dubas loves gives away NTC/NMC it seems so it will be hard to move any of the significant salaries
Yeah, it was. I floated the idea of exposing him in the expansion draft before his NTC kicked in. Seemed like a good idea, then you could have baited Seattle into taking Muzzin off your hands and frees up 5.5m in cap space while also allowing you to protect 7 forwards (keep McCann and you had one more free spot to add another soft deal forward like him)
He struggled to start last season as well, but did turn it around after ~20 games. Hopefully he can turn it around again, otherwise our defense is in rough shape.
ottomaddox
Registered User
This just shows how shallow our D depth is, and (once again) the cap constraints due to a top heavy forward group will always keep TOR from succeeding.
We are here talking about Muzzin slowed/injured, Liljegren who's not quite an NHLer, Dermott who's not a top 4 D, and we have Sandin who's very poor defensively. Oh and then there's Holl who's not fit to be a top 4 D unless Muzzin is playing well.
We have a bad defense again.
We are here talking about Muzzin slowed/injured, Liljegren who's not quite an NHLer, Dermott who's not a top 4 D, and we have Sandin who's very poor defensively. Oh and then there's Holl who's not fit to be a top 4 D unless Muzzin is playing well.
We have a bad defense again.
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
- 35,588
- 57,238
I love Muzzin, let’s hope this is just a spell. BUT, if this is now a guy in decline, our D situation looks bottom third in the league. Holl is barely NHL caliber without an effective Muzzin, you’ve essentially lost a top four pair. Then factor in the loss of Bogo and our D is a bit of a joke defensively.
Buds17
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2015
- 8,590
- 3,623
While I think the blueline depth is somewhat there, I still wouldn't be all too eager to sit a top four d-man for it. To play Muzzin less would involve playing someone from the bottom pairing more. That jump in minutes wouldn't be insignificant. Changing up the pairings might be challenging with more than one d-man struggling at the moment. It would be great if the guys could somehow play their way out of this current funk.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
He needs to go the IR until he's back to 100%. It's doing more harm than good having him take a regular shift at the moment.
1specter
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2016
- 12,915
- 19,586
It's concerning and once Rielly leaves it's going to be even worse. Hopefully Muzzin is just dealing with injury right now and he'll be fine long term
Muzzin has been godawful but just lol at giving him the majority of the blame for the second goal, where Holl skated into a bunch of opposing skaters in the neutral zone and then admired his brutal turnover before remembering that he's supposed to be playing defense.
Darcy Tucker
My Name is Bob
Should I break out the ouija board or say Muzzin's name backwards three times without chuckling. Who is going to lay the body if Dubas simply cap dumps him because he's lost a step? Perplexing stuff.
He's 33 with very hard miles on him, including LA running through a crazy murderer's row in their 2014 cup run. Decline is inevitable.
Dubas should have been aware and prepared for this. But he wasn't.
Dubas should have been aware and prepared for this. But he wasn't.
I hope he is HURT. Because if not then we are seeing da start of da decline this year. I thought as I mentioned to you guys it would be next year but hard miles SC miles in LA are hard miles. If he is hurt then Leafs should put him on LTIR and let him heal. But worse part of it is everyone is now seeing what I told you guys for years Holl is at best a 6th/7th dman in league. Muzzy was carrying his jock past 2 years and most of you guys as fans had no clue.
ShaneFalco
Registered User
Terrible GM
Registered User
I think this is all just bad timing. Sometimes you get one player struggling and your line mate can conceal some of the problems. Right now both are struggling, which is obviously ungood.... Unless this injury related I expect them to be back to normal within a week or less.
no kidding man. There were honestly people on here calling our top-4's "one of the best in hockey" and that Holl is a Cernak level shutdown dman. Who were they seriously trying to fool?
And we're probably going to lose Rielly for nothing too. With Muzzin declining and Rielly gone, Dubas will have successfully destroyed any semblance of a decent defense we could have had. And this all on top of the fact that the organization has utterly failed at developing Dermott, Sandin and Lilly.
justashadowof
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2020
- 4,025
- 4,230
Dach made Muzzin look like that Minnesota North Stars defender against Mario Lemieux from that iconic 1991 Cup final goal.
Holl is still struggling much more. Maybe because Muzzin isn't doing the heavy lifting this season.
Holl is still struggling much more. Maybe because Muzzin isn't doing the heavy lifting this season.
Buds17
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2015
- 8,590
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This seems like it could be injury related. I'd say Muzzin has been quite consistent (and consistently effective) during his time with the team. These early numbers - and they are still early - suggest something closer to a game falling off entirely rather than just a simple decline. Unfortunate circumstance either way right now.
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justashadowof
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2020
- 4,025
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There could just be some injury thing Muzzin's playing through that's affecting his play. Of course it's accumulated wear and tear on the body that causes pro athletes' decline. But expecting the same performance from Muzzin at 32 that he gave in his prime is kind of foolish. Other than Muzzin just getting back to the form of even last season, there may be a time to protect Muzzin's minutes better even if it's about not having him break down in the playoffs again.
The Leafs really needed to have developed their own Muzzin in house. They had about 10 swings and misses at the draft table 2014-2017 going for that type of defender.
hockeynorth
Registered User
- Aug 31, 2017
- 12,650
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We always knew Muzzin was likely to start declining this year or next, it's really no surprise but this card is from when he signed his deal
I would really just ease up his minutes and/or split he and Holl.
Personally, I want to see the D right now as:
Rielly-Dermott
Sandin-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
I would really just ease up his minutes and/or split he and Holl.
Personally, I want to see the D right now as:
Rielly-Dermott
Sandin-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
Tak7
Registered User
As others have mentioned already, if Muzzin is off his game, you lose that entire 2nd pairing.
Holl isn't good enough to play without Muzzin, so if Muzzin is struggling, you lose Holl as well.
This team is so fragile.
Holl isn't good enough to play without Muzzin, so if Muzzin is struggling, you lose Holl as well.
This team is so fragile.
socko
Registered User
I think Bogo was more valuable than Holl. I just don't get why the Leafs were fooled. You actually protected this guy? No, please take him.
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
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The one positive thing is that the Leafs can definitely afford to give Dermott more minutes, at least at ES.
Keep Muzzin and Holl in the 18-19 minutes range, and let Dermott take a few shifts with each one of them to cut down at least their ES minutes... And it would also give them someone who can skate.
How long is an average shift for one of them? 30-40 seconds if they don't get hemmed in. Let Dermott take three shifts a piece over the course of the game, and Muzzin and Holl will go from 20 minute guys to 18.5 minute guys. Dermott goes up from 13.5 minutes to 16.5 minutes, which is still relatively low but acceptable since he is not used on special teams (which is another issue entirely).
Only giving Dermott 13-14 minutes was at least somewhat logical when the top 4 are playing well with 20+ minutes each, but when one of the two pairings is playing especially poorly, and Dermott has proven he can handle both sides of the ice, it makes no sense anymore.
Now is also the time to experiment with Liljegren. He should not be in a press box right now... Let him get into a few games while Mikheyev is out so that we can let Holl and Muzzin especially last longer throughout the season.
