Value of: Jake Muzzin

[Frolov 6'3]

I see Muzzin as a solid 2nd pairing defenseman.

I am ok with a 1st (15-20 range) and very good prospect.

 

[tomd]

The most difficult issue facing the Kings is not how much they can get for Muzzin but whether they can afford to trade him at all. They literally have no one in their entire organization to replace him. To go into next year with just Doughty and Martinez as your only two legitimate NHL defensemen is too risky IMO. There is very little in the UFA market this coming year so no help there. If the Kings are entertaining any idea of returning to competitive hockey next year, they have to keep both Martinez and Muzzin. Heck, they never replace Voynov and that was 4 years ago!

 

[bland]

The most difficult issue facing the Kings is not how much they can get for Muzzin but whether they can afford to trade him at all. They literally have no one in their entire organization to replace him. To go into next year with just Doughty and Martinez as your only two legitimate NHL defensemen is too risky IMO. There is very little in the UFA market this coming year so no help there. If the Kings are entertaining any idea of returning to competitive hockey next year, they have to keep both Martinez and Muzzin. Heck, they never replace Voynov and that was 4 years ago!

Why would you need to have a like for like replacement? The Kings, like it or not, ARE rebuilding. I have seen people make this same argument about Carter.

You replace them from within with younger players. Of course they aren't as good now, but that is totally irrelevant. The Kings need to get better by getting younger, cost controlled talent that can grow together.

They won't re-sign Muzzin. It would be stupid to do so in these circumstances, so you have to deal him. If you can get more by dealing him with a year left rather than as a UFA, you do it now. It's the best thing to do for the health of the franchise, and it's not going to hurt this or next year's team one bit.

 

[tomd]

Why would you need to have a like for like replacement? The Kings, like it or not, ARE rebuilding. I have seen people make this same argument about Carter.

You replace them from within with younger players. Of course they aren't as good now, but that is totally irrelevant. The Kings need to get better by getting younger, cost controlled talent that can grow together.

They won't re-sign Muzzin. It would be stupid to do so in these circumstances, so you have to deal him. If you can get more by dealing him with a year left rather than as a UFA, you do it now. It's the best thing to do for the health of the franchise, and it's not going to hurt this or next year's team one bit.

Neither Blake nor Robitaille have said they are "rebuilding". "Retooling", yes. A trade of Muzzin would indeed signal a true rebuild and it would be lengthy given that the Kings have probably the thinnest prospect pool on D in the entire league. As I said, they are still on the clock in trying to replace ONE top 4 defenseman (Voynov). Trading Muzzin means they have to replace at least two.

I get that fans like you (and many others) want the Kings to be as bad as possible but I'm not sure AEG, Blake, or Robitaille share your POV. We'll know more by the end of February. BTW, I'll go on record now saying that the Kings will play .500 hockey or close to it for the balance of the year.

 

[bland]

Neither Blake nor Robitaille have said they are "rebuilding". "Retooling", yes. A trade of Muzzin would indeed signal a true rebuild and it would be lengthy given that the Kings have probably the thinnest prospect pool on D in the entire league. As I said, they are still on the clock in trying to replace ONE top 4 defenseman (Voynov). Trading Muzzin means they have to replace at least two.

I get that fans like you (and many others) want the Kings to be as bad as possible but I'm not sure AEG, Blake, or Robitaille share your POV. We'll know more by the end of February. BTW, I'll go on record now saying that the Kings will play .500 hockey or close to it for the balance of the year.

I don't think you get it. It's not about being "bad", it's about putting an end to stupid, unnecessary contracts, unrealistic and unreachable goals, and growing organically. It's about getting past this stage where mediocrity is the best you could expect and back to work higher level of hockey where playoff appearances are likely and wins are possible.

This team won't make the playoffs this year, meaning they have won just one playoff game in five seasons. There is absolutely no reason for any team in this circumstance to keep retaining veteran players at even higher cap hits. That's how they got into this mess.

 

[tomd]

I don't think you get it. It's not about being "bad", it's about putting an end to stupid, unnecessary contracts, unrealistic and unreachable goals, and growing organically. It's about getting past this stage where mediocrity is the best you could expect and back to work higher level of hockey where playoff appearances are likely and wins are possible.

This team won't make the playoffs this year, meaning they have won just one playoff game in five seasons. There is absolutely no reason for any team in this circumstance to keep retaining veteran players at even higher cap hits. That's how they got into this mess.

I don't disagree actually. I'm just indicating what I believe is the thinking of AEG, Blake, and Robitaille. It takes a lot of guts to enter a full rebuild especially when you have contracts like Kopitar, Brown, Kovalchuk, Doughty, and Quick on the books. Those will be very tough contracts to move.

We'll know by March whether this is a full rebuild or not. Right now, I don't see anything to indicate that that is the direction they are going. Do you?

 

[bland]

I don't disagree actually. I'm just indicating what I believe is the thinking of AEG, Blake, and Robitaille. It takes a lot of guts to enter a full rebuild especially when you have contracts like Kopitar, Brown, Kovalchuk, Doughty, and Quick on the books. Those will be very tough contracts to move.

We'll know by March whether this is a full rebuild or not. Right now, I don't see anything to indicate that that is the direction they are going. Do you?

Actually, I do. The injuries that brought in Wagner, Luff and Petersen, to some degree Walker too - have shown them what they can expect if they do decide to ship out older players. Couple that with declining attendance and viewership, a total lack of playoff revenue, the inability of veteran players to perform, yeah, if they had resisted the inevitabke rebuild before the season they are sure seeing it's benefits now.

First step is retaining picks and prospects, second step is avoiding useless wastes of cap space on Oldy Oldersons like the awful Phaneuf and Kovalchuk deals, and the third step is dealing away vets to rebuild the asset list.

It's the only way out of this five year tailspin.

 

[tomd]

Actually, I do. The injuries that brought in Wagner, Luff and Petersen, to some degree Walker too - have shown them what they can expect if they do decide to ship out older players. Couple that with declining attendance and viewership, a total lack of playoff revenue, the inability of veteran players to perform, yeah, if they had resisted the inevitabke rebuild before the season they are sure seeing it's benefits now.

First step is retaining picks and prospects, second step is avoiding useless wastes of cap space on Oldy Oldersons like the awful Phaneuf and Kovalchuk deals, and the third step is dealing away vets to rebuild the asset list.

It's the only way out of this five year tailspin.

You're just giving me what they should do, not what they've done. Every team has injuries and calls up young players. That is not the sign of a movement. The only trade they've made this year is acquiring a 30 year-old for a 26 year-old. Surely that isn't the sign of a rebuild, is it? As late as June there were strong indications that they had a deal for a 30 year-old Pacioretty which would have involved their 1st among other things. No sign there for sure.

Bottom line, they've done NOTHING to indicate that a major rebuild either under underway or soon will be. Not a single thing other than bringing up rookies to replace injured vets and claim a couple of busts off the waiver wire. And where do you think these kids will be when Kovalchuk, Lewis, and Martinez return? That's right...back in Ontario. In fact, didn't they just send a few of them back yesterday?

 

[BigZ65]

0 interest in dealing Vesalainen. The Jets are going to need impact players on their ELC's as soon as next season.

That’s true, but 2019 is the best roster the Jets will have and IMO you go all in this year and next. Muzzin is a perfect target and we are loaded with cheap forwards to fill behind the expensive top 6. Also the easiest guys to find cheap in FA.

 

[deaderhead28]

I don't disagree actually. I'm just indicating what I believe is the thinking of AEG, Blake, and Robitaille. It takes a lot of guts to enter a full rebuild especially when you have contracts like Kopitar, Brown, Kovalchuk, Doughty, and Quick on the books. Those will be very tough contracts to move.

We'll know by March whether this is a full rebuild or not. Right now, I don't see anything to indicate that that is the direction they are going. Do you?

Yeah I dont see a full rebuild either with Kopi and Doughty etc.I see a tear down and refitted type turnover not a full blown rebuild with Doughty especially on this team.

 

[big ape]

Oilers 2cd 2019
Yamamoto
For
Muzzin
Hello can at least get a response lol. On the 2cd page , thought this was decent. Oilers fans won’t like Yamo going.

 

[unicornpig]

Muzzin isn't getting a 1st,,,,,

historically players like him get 2nd+ 2/3/4/5 pick+ possibly prospect added

go back at past deadline trains and what Dmen got a 1st.

Douglas Murray got two 2nds......on an expiring contract....a whole bunch of scrub defensemans got two 2nd rounders ...... so yes Muzzin will get a 1st. will it be a lottery probably not but he’ll fetch a first.

 

[unicornpig]

Oilers 2cd 2019
Yamamoto
For
Muzzin
Hello can at least get a response lol. On the 2cd page , thought this was decent. Oilers fans won’t like Yamo going.

Not decent, rejected.

 

[Djp]

Douglas Murray got two 2nds......on an expiring contract....a whole bunch of scrub defensemans got two 2nd rounders ...... so yes Muzzin will get a 1st. will it be a lottery probably not but he’ll fetch a first.

go back and look at deadline trades for 2nd-5th Dmen at TDL. a vast majority of them got 2nd+. Some got a 2nd that became a 1st based on things happening.

Only #1 Dmen get 1st. Muzzin isn't

Sure---you ask Vegas GM and he will trade you 2 1sts probably....

 

[Osprey]

The most difficult issue facing the Kings is not how much they can get for Muzzin but whether they can afford to trade him at all. They literally have no one in their entire organization to replace him. To go into next year with just Doughty and Martinez as your only two legitimate NHL defensemen is too risky IMO. There is very little in the UFA market this coming year so no help there. If the Kings are entertaining any idea of returning to competitive hockey next year, they have to keep both Martinez and Muzzin. Heck, they never replace Voynov and that was 4 years ago!

I don't really agree with the idea that Muzzin makes LA competitive and that they can't afford to trade him. Since coming into the league, he's been on the ice for as many 5v5 goals against as goals for. In other words, all of the offense that he helps generate is negated by mediocre defense. Only the powerplay time that he gets helps make him a net positive contributor, but only just barely. More anecdotally, since graduating to and taking Voynov's spot, the team has won only one playoff game. If he were really that good, wouldn't he have offset the loss of Voynov to at least some degree? Instead, fans still lament over never replacing Voynov, despite Muzzin being a similar type of player that, from some of the praise that he gets, you would think is even better.

I think that it would be a lot easier than people believe to acquire or cultivate a player who provides a greater positive contribution to the team and makes it more competitive than Muzzin does. Trading a player that you think that you can't imagine that you can replace and finding a replacement that not only replaces him, but improves the team, is an important part of the creative destruction that makes a team better and that LA desperately needs. Holding onto players like Muzzin and Martinez, who only barely make a positive impact, is just treading water, which is exactly what the team has been doing for 4 years now.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Oilers 2cd 2019
Yamamoto
For
Muzzin
Hello can at least get a response lol. On the 2cd page , thought this was decent. Oilers fans won’t like Yamo going.

Kings fans won't like Yamo coming.

 

[unicornpig]

go back and look at deadline trades for 2nd-5th Dmen at TDL. a vast majority of them got 2nd+. Some got a 2nd that became a 1st based on things happening.

Only #1 Dmen get 1st. Muzzin isn't

Sure---you ask Vegas GM and he will trade you 2 1sts probably....

shattenkirk, mcdonagh, harmonic all got 1sts..... yea bud......

even roman polak who is a 7d got two 2nds

 

[Huffer]

That’s true, but 2019 is the best roster the Jets will have and IMO you go all in this year and next. Muzzin is a perfect target and we are loaded with cheap forwards to fill behind the expensive top 6. Also the easiest guys to find cheap in FA.

I'm just not one of those "go all in" types. Add some depth pieces at the deadline for sure. But considering the Jets already traded away their 1st last year, dealing another high end young piece isn't something I would be looking to do. Not for a player that's not going to be a long term piece (and I don't consider 1.5 years enough). Especially not Vesalainen, who after the expensive top 6 is clearly separated from the rest of the talent the Jets have with the exception of maybe Roslovic. I don't think you find players of Vesalainen's ability via FA that are going to charge close to ELC money.

 

[Dr Amazing]

Muzzin to the Jets would be awesome a top 4 of

Morrissey - Trouba
Muzzin - Byfuglien

would be nice

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not decent, rejected.

Would that rejected deal be the same reason why Mete and a 2nd was also not liked as an offer?

What's the ask if Muzzin and his 2 years in term is trade? What are the Kings looking for? Futures on D, Futures on forward, Proven NHL player, 1st?, 2nd? I think if Kings fans are interested in trading Muzzin, they should provide clarity for what they would be asking in return

 

[Habs Halifax]

Muzzin to the Jets would be awesome a top 4 of

Morrissey - Trouba
Muzzin - Byfuglien

would be nice

Habs:
Mete / Weber
Muzzin / Petry
Reilly / Juulsen

What would the Jets offer for Muzzin? Curious

 

[Hunter368]

Habs:
Mete / Weber
Muzzin / Petry
Reilly / Juulsen

What would the Jets offer for Muzzin? Curious

More then I would like and less then what Kings fans would want.

 

[Habs Halifax]

More then I would like and less then what Kings fans would want.

Good answer

 

[Little Psycho]

Muzzin has not been LA's best defenseman this season. Even Doughty playing some of the worst hockey of his career is better than Muzzin at his best. Don't overlook that Doughty plays many more minutes, in more situations and against the absolute best quality of competition.

That's just how objectivity looks to fans who have trouble with it when it comes to their own players.​

Brown recently said that Muzzin has been the best defensman this season.

 

[10Ducky10]

Muzzin for Logan Stanley, Ben Chiarot and a 2nd in 2019.