Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Saying that Gardiner is better this season shouldn't be seen as a negative statement towards Rielly - it just means the Leafs have two very good young defenders.
I tend to agree. I think he'll be an offensive #2-3 and not this stud defender everyone think he'll be.
Regarding the topic at hand, Gardiner has been better this season.
Why? I'm not allowed to project players careers on a message board?
Sigh.
No I don't think you can't read. I also don't have a problem with others subjective opinions, especially not yours as I think you are a good poster. I'm saying that you seem to have a narrative you have decided on, and preconceived notion of what I'm saying that makes my point pass you by.
I do not keep stating Rielly is not versatile. That's not what I have said at any point. I'm saying:
1) Versatile D-men play both sides equally effective. There are plenty of examples of this.
2) The very defining measure of versatility is being able to play a different position without loosing too much of your effectiveness.
3) Therefor you can't both be versatile, yet be much more effective on one side.
4) In a situation with a player playing on his off-side, either he's versatile and he doesn't lose much of his effectiveness, or he isn't and his numbers would look better on his proper side.
It is simple logic, not a matter of opinion.
So to address your second paragraph, it's all fine to say that Rielly would have better numbers on the left side and the gap between them decrease. But then you can't laud Rielly for being versatile enough to play both sides. If both of them perform worse on the right side, both of them are better on the left, then one of them can't be a versatile player and the other not. It defies any kind of logic.
Also, what you are doing is identifying contextual factors, like quality of competition, and then assigning an arbitrary impact. You keep saying that despite Gardiner's statistical edge, Rielly is the better D-man because of these factors. What do you base your opinion that the impact of these factors are large enough for Rielly to be the better player? Because I base my opinion on the matter on tons of studies of quality of competition and the effect it has on cases like these.
I agree with this completely. I think both are long-term pieces for this club, Rielly in particular. I don't mean in any way to belittle one of them, or making it a case of having to choose one. I am just a sucker for accuracy.
On that note, I think I'm done with the above discussion. If my point hasn't come across by now, I don't think it ever will.
Been saying this for almost two years now, but I am told I am nuts, know nothing about hockey and that Rielly is the next Keith/Karlsson for sure. I am not saying that I am right or that he is not a good player, but it is interesting to see that a few posters have come out of the closet and seem to be lowering expectations. Usually I am the only one to hammer him in the Rielly thread - any criticism is considered blasphemous. Considering the majority around here think Rielly should have been the number 1 pick, it is no suprise Leaf fans have a reputation for evaluating their own. It is amazing that the bulk of Leaf fans think Rielly deserves 6-6.5 million a year on a max contract (top 10 for D) which is about 1.5 times guys like Gardiner or Klinberg make or over double what Murray just signed for. Right now, he is basically an offensive defenseman that is putting up mediocre point totals and is challenged defensively. Yes he is only 21, but I am still waiting to see this off the charts offensive skill that was the main reason he was drafted.
according to who? All those fanbases that are super knowledgeable and objective?it is no suprise Leaf fans have a reputation for evaluating their own
Reilly is better of one reason. Gardiner is absolutely lost in the defensive zone. Gardiner cannot make the right reads.
Reilly is much better of an all around player and younger, and has more offensive upside.
Whoever says Gardiner is better than Reilly is going off their rocker.
Dion was more of an anchor than help this season.
Phaneuf or Hunwick? Contracts aside, it's Phaneuf by a land slide.
By the way I guess 3 years in the league wouldn't have any factor in the story?
This article confirms my doubts on rielly, which I agree on
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Do any of you watch or even understand just what you are seeing.....
I don't consider it a slight that Gardiner is the better player right now though.
It's no secret I have hammered Rielly with respect to his defensive play over the last couple of years. Everyone blames his partner and the overall team and all the advanced stats are ignored. Gardiner being a top possession player and and and elite at shot suppression are used to validate his effectiveness defensively. Yet these same stats mean zilch when it comes to Rielly. I feel there is a wide gap between the two on the defensive side at this current point of time. These are the type of plays I see from Rielly basically every game.
https://instagram.com/p/BB1I2jtof9n/
Gardiner is the 2016 version of Jim McKenny. A guy who broke Leaf hearts for eons. A total, and complete cement head.
I have hopes that Morgan Rielly is not a cement head. Even though both of them, have heads that look like blocks.
I hold out some hope for Rielly. Gardiner should be sold now that he is cresting late in the season. Total disappointment to me.
despite the fact that he SEEMS absolutely awful at it. That's nothing short of miraculous.
Gardiner is the 2016 version of Jim McKenny. A guy who broke Leaf hearts for eons. A total, and complete cement head.
I have hopes that Morgan Rielly is not a cement head. Even though both of them, have heads that look like blocks.
I hold out some hope for Rielly. Gardiner should be sold now that he is cresting late in the season. Total disappointment to me.
Sooner we get rid of Gardiner the better. Its just another cement head with talent that picks and chooses the time to show that talent. McKenny all the way.
Maybe you need better reception there in Sweden? Because Gardiner isn't better than Rielly. If watching the games isn't enough to tell you that than maybe the fact Gardiner is being utilized as a 2nd pair instead of getting 1st pair WITH Rielly who's been playing on his off side? I mean why would Babcock play Jake less than Rielly, Hunwick and Phaneuf? And why's Jake, who's a offensive defenseman, not leading our D in offense considering his ample PP time, the weaker comp he plays against at ES and his obscenely high ZS%?
a slight amendment.