Tribute Jack Campbell Discussion

[Gary Nylund]

His camp also knows we have noone else. We wouldn't want Mrazek as our #1

True. His camp would have to be filled with morons to not know that they have a ton of leverage.

 

[The Podium]

His camp also knows we have noone else. We wouldn't want Mrazek as our #1

So like almost every UFA goaltender ever?

 

[ShaneFalco]

So like almost every UFA goaltender ever?

Some teams actually develop goalies, have a back-up that could step in and be #1, or have better options than Woll/Hutchison should their goalie sign somewhere else

 

[ToneDog]

Some of your questions were a complete waste of time as you were asking things that I'd already made my views clear on. Other questions I have answered several times and you keep ignoring my answers and repeating your questions. When the first paragraph you write is already full of nonsense, I reserve the right to stop reading at that point.

Best is a relative term so if you want keep bragging about how our team is one of the best, hey good for you. IMHO a team that keeps losing in the 1st round in humiliating fashion because they seem to have no will to win in the last game for 4 years in a row ... I think it's fair to say that it's a good regular season team but to me personally, you need to stop sucking in the playoffs before you can call yourself a very good team, let alone one of the best.

Good regular season team which caused management to go all-in last year only to sh1t the bed. No doubt Dubas will go all in again as much as he can given the amount of assets he spent last TDL. Would you bet the mortgage on them going deep or losing in round #1 given their history ??

 

[Brown Dog]

I think $6M X 4 years makes sense for everyone involved.

 

[ToneDog]

I think $6M X 4 years makes sense for everyone involved.

Prefer 5mx5 but that ship sailed. 6mx4 probably gets it done if Soup wants to remain a Leaf.

 

[ACC1224]

Some of your questions were a complete waste of time as you were asking things that I'd already made my views clear on. Other questions I have answered several times and you keep ignoring my answers and repeating your questions. When the first paragraph you write is already full of nonsense, I reserve the right to stop reading at that point.

Best is a relative term so if you want keep bragging about how our team is one of the best, hey good for you. IMHO a team that keeps losing in the 1st round in humiliating fashion because they seem to have no will to win in the last game for 4 years in a row ... I think it's fair to say that it's a good regular season team but to me personally, you need to stop sucking in the playoffs before you can call yourself a very good team, let alone one of the best.

I think 99.9% of the fanbase share that sentiment. The other .1%,

 

[ACC1224]

I think $6M X 4 years makes sense for everyone involved.

I imagine that's what they will settle on.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Some of your questions were a complete waste of time as you were asking things that I'd already made my views clear on. Other questions I have answered several times

For the record, you did not answer or make your views clear on any of my questions, and you deflected/ignored every time I highlighted an issue or inconsistency in your statements. My position was pretty simple and accurate - teams in our position do not and should not sell off Vezina-contending #1 goalies as they approach the playoffs. You never once actually addressed this core point of the discussion, so I'll just assume you agree with me.

Best is a relative term so if you want keep bragging about how our team is one of the best, hey good for you.

Referring to a top-5 team as one of the best is not "bragging" or "nonsense". It's actually a pretty normal, common position. A lot of time could have been saved if you had just acknowledged that from the start and "moved on" if you disagreed, instead of trying to start something.

 

[Mess]

Seriously, if you are Campbell do you negotiate with Lehner who signed two years ago as your comparable or do you use Markstron/Grubaur who signed last year ?? Dubas needs to have the stones to push back because the Campbell camp looks like they will be digging in at 6+m.

Campbell is proving daily he is a capable starting goalie in the NHL and you have to think because of this happening later in life for him, and he hasn't had a lot of opportunity to sign that BIG paycheck that now at age 30 he is going to be his best opportunity and perhaps only real time to cash in $$$ financially for himself and his family.

He is playing last year and this year at $1.65 mil which is peanuts comparative to many other NHL goalies, and they're not performing at his level. This current contract is the largest contract he has had to date to boot. Then you toss in Leafs are willing to pay his backup not to play and sit there holding the clipboard and open the player door on line changes for $3.8 mil X 3 years.

You have to think 6 years at $6 mil (ie the Markstrom) deal is his minimum expectations. IMO

Campbell stats vs the comparibles making $5 mil or more, can't carry his jock strap at present so not sure how you convince him to take less money when he is outperforming them significantly.

We all know this is a make or break year for the Leafs and they need playoff success or we might see major changes top to bottom in the organization and Campbell playoff performance this year will go a long way to deciding his next deal and his future as a Leaf, and it might be a different management team making those decisions. However every round Leafs might advance on the back of Campbell's performance might keep making the asking price rise per round won.

Hard to imagine Leafs walking away from Campbell if he delivers a few playoff rounds and Leafs thinking Mrazek/Woll is a good idea going forward.

 

[The Podium]

Campbell is proving daily he is a capable starting goalie in the NHL and you have to think because of this happening later in life for him, and he hasn't had a lot of opportunity to sign that BIG paycheck that now at age 30 he is going to be his best opportunity and perhaps only real time to cash in $$$ financially for himself and his family.

He is playing last year and this year at $1.65 mil which is peanuts comparative to many other NHL goalies, and they're not performing at his level. This current contract is the largest contract he has had to date to boot. Then you toss in Leafs are willing to pay his backup not to play and sit there holding the clipboard and open the player door on line changes for $3.8 mil X 3 years.

You have to think 6 years at $6 mil (ie the Markstrom) deal is his minimum expectations. IMO

Campbell stats vs the comparibles making $5 mil or more, can't carry his jock strap at present so not sure how you convince him to take less money when he is outperforming them significantly.

We all know this is a make or break year for the Leafs and they need playoff success or we might see major changes top to bottom in the organization and Campbell playoff performance this year will go a long way to deciding his next deal and his future as a Leaf, and it might be a different management team making those decisions. However every round Leafs might advance on the back of Campbell's performance might keep making the asking price rise per round won.

Hard to imagine Leafs walking away from Campbell if he delivers a few playoff rounds and Leafs thinking Mrazek/Woll is a good idea going forward.

You haven’t once countered why Lehner is not a good comparable. He signed the same year as Markstrom and has had a better career and better single season performances. The only reason you’re ignoring him as a comparable is because it doesn’t fit your narrative. But please, let me know why he doesn’t work here.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Good regular season team which caused management to go all-in last year only to sh1t the bed. No doubt Dubas will go all in again as much as he can given the amount of assets he spent last TDL. Would you bet the mortgage on them going deep or losing in round #1 given their history ??

Losing in round one seems more likely but that has a lot to do with the division they're in. In general though, predicting how the Leafs will do is really tough IMO. The cynics will of course laugh and say of course they will lose in round 1, that's what they always do. And as much as I hate to say it, these arguments/discussions have happened on the main boards for many years now, I've always been on the side that argues that the Leafs are a contender but the cycnics have been right every single time. And last year was of course the worst. I rarely make predictions because I'm very aware that in pro sports, upsets happen so I prefer to just offer my opinion on what the betting line might be but last year, I did predict that we would cruise through the first two rounds of the playoffs and FML, I can still hardly believe that we lost to MTL.

The way we just "disappear" (in quotes just to keep you happy @Dekes For Days ) in the playoffs when the finish line is in sight is just mind boggling. I don't think I've seen anything like it in NA pro sports in the last 50 years so I have no idea how much weight to give to it. I'd love to say it doesn't matter, it's just coincidence or WE but when the same thing happens 4 years in a row it's hard to ignore.

I think $6M X 4 years makes sense for everyone involved.

Maybe. I have a feeling his agent will try for more though.

I think 99.9% of the fanbase share that sentiment. The other .1%,

The other .1% pretend that playoff games are no different from regular season games and series deciding game 7's are also the same and it's just so ridiculous.

For the record, you did not answer or make your views clear on any of my questions, and you deflected/ignored every time I highlighted an issue or inconsistency in your statements. My position was pretty simple and accurate - teams in our position do not and should not sell off Vezina-contending #1 goalies as they approach the playoffs. You never once actually addressed this core point of the discussion, so I'll just assume you agree with me.

Referring to a top-5 team as one of the best is not "bragging" or "nonsense". It's actually a pretty normal, common position. A lot of time could have been saved if you had just acknowledged that from the start and "moved on" if you disagreed, instead of trying to start something.

I'll say this as politely as I can - that's complete BS.

You seem to be ignoring our playoff failures which I'm pretty sure makes no sense to most of us and your suggestion that I "acknowledge" something that I don't agree with is completely ridiculous - have you ever "acknowledged" something that you don't agree with? You have the right to your opinion and when I find your opinion to be nonsense, I reserve the right to offer my contradictory opinion and if you're so butthurt by this, then I suggest you take your own advice and move on.

 

[ToneDog]

You haven’t once countered why Lehner is not a good comparable. He signed the same year as Markstrom and has had a better career and better single season performances. The only reason you’re ignoring him as a comparable is because it doesn’t fit your narrative. But please, let me know why he doesn’t work here.

From listening to Kypreos who says Jack is asking $6+m my guess is that Jack is using Markstrom as his comparable. Guessing Leafs now using Lehner as his comparable because Jack turned down the rumoured Leaf offer a month or two ago which must have been 4+. The risk is that somebody out there might agree to give him the Markstrom deal and Jack is banking on the Leafs blinking before he does.

 

[ACC1224]

Campbell is proving daily he is a capable starting goalie in the NHL and you have to think because of this happening later in life for him, and he hasn't had a lot of opportunity to sign that BIG paycheck that now at age 30 he is going to be his best opportunity and perhaps only real time to cash in $$$ financially for himself and his family.

He is playing last year and this year at $1.65 mil which is peanuts comparative to many other NHL goalies, and they're not performing at his level. This current contract is the largest contract he has had to date to boot. Then you toss in Leafs are willing to pay his backup not to play and sit there holding the clipboard and open the player door on line changes for $3.8 mil X 3 years.

You have to think 6 years at $6 mil (ie the Markstrom) deal is his minimum expectations. IMO

Campbell stats vs the comparibles making $5 mil or more, can't carry his jock strap at present so not sure how you convince him to take less money when he is outperforming them significantly.

We all know this is a make or break year for the Leafs and they need playoff success or we might see major changes top to bottom in the organization and Campbell playoff performance this year will go a long way to deciding his next deal and his future as a Leaf, and it might be a different management team making those decisions. However every round Leafs might advance on the back of Campbell's performance might keep making the asking price rise per round won.

Hard to imagine Leafs walking away from Campbell if he delivers a few playoff rounds and Leafs thinking Mrazek/Woll is a good idea going forward.

I'd be fine with Dubas letting him walk if 6 x 6 is what he's looking for.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'll say this as politely as I can - that's complete BS.

Nope, it's 100% true, and there for all to see.

You seem to be ignoring our playoff failures

Just because I don't define our team exclusively by our goal differential in 10 cherry picked periods of past playoff play while ignoring all context and every other metric and sample does not mean that I am ignoring the past playoff outcomes we have had in a more reasonable evaluation of our team. Fact remains that we have an excellent team, and we should not be looking to sell off our Vezina-contending #1 goalie as we approach the playoffs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'd be fine with Dubas letting him walk if 6 x 6 is what he's looking for.

I'm probably one of his biggest fans and my first thought is that I wouldn't give him that contract either, not today anyway.

Nope, it's 100% true, and there for all to see.

Sure thing sport.

Just because I don't define our team exclusively by our goal differential in 10 cherry picked periods of past playoff play while ignoring all context and every other metric and sample does not mean that I am ignoring the past playoff outcomes we have had in a more reasonable evaluation of our team. Fact remains that we have an excellent team, and we should not be looking to sell off our Vezina-contending #1 goalie as we approach the playoffs.

Sure seems like you are.

 

[Nylanderthal]

His camp also knows we have noone else. We wouldn't want Mrazek as our #1

Could they simply not bring in another tandem guy to play with mrazek? That was the plan for this year until jack really stepped up.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Could they simply not bring in another tandem guy to play with mrazek? That was the plan for this year until jack really stepped up.

How many tandem guys are even out there? I'd guess most goalies are either starters or backups which would mean that tandem guys are pretty hard to find. I could be wrong, just guessing.

 

[Confucius]

I'd be fine with Dubas letting him walk if 6 x 6 is what he's looking for.

9 goalies in the league currently get 6 or more, every year the price goes up. You got to pay to play.

 

[Nylanderthal]

How many tandem guys are even out there? I'd guess most goalies are either starters or backups which would mean that tandem guys are pretty hard to find. I could be wrong, just guessing.

Upcoming UFA goalies who might fit the bill include Halak, Holtby, Vanacek, and Husso. We have no idea who might shake free (who expected someone like Ned to be available out of Carolina?) I really want Jack back, but it has to fit or else it doesn't make sense.

 

[ACC1224]

9 goalies in the league currently get 6 or more, every year the price goes up. You got to pay to play.

The question is does he belong in the group of 9?
I'm wary.

 

[Gary Nylund]

9 goalies in the league currently get 6 or more, every year the price goes up. You got to pay to play.

I could probably stomach paying 6 but a 6 year term? I just don't know, I might be able to talk myself into agreeing to that but not sure, we're right about at the absolute upper limit of what I'd be willing to pay.

The question is does he belong in the group of 9?
I'm wary.

Good question IMO and also wise to be wary because that group of 9 ... I haven't studied this or anything so I could be wrong but I'd guess that there is a lot of turnover in the top 9 from year to year which speaks against a 6x6 deal for Jack. On the other hand, sometimes you just gotta go with your gut feeling and Jack sure is looking good boy. Plus he's pretty much always been good when he's had the chance to play, he just hasn't had that many chances but it's not like he's been up and down throughout his career.

6x6, man oh man, it's a tough call. What can I say, that's why they pay Dubas the big bucks - to make these decisions. He f***ed up last summer, he better get it right this time as it may well be the most important decision he's made so far in his tenure.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Could they simply not bring in another tandem guy to play with mrazek? That was the plan for this year until jack really stepped up.

They could - but goalies (good ones) can be hard to find. I'm not sure Mrazek is part of the solution either.

 

[Confucius]

The question is does he belong in the group of 9?
I'm wary.

He seems to have been a winner throughout his career. 3 gold medals in IIHF events, solid numbers in the NHL games he has been able to get into. Boggles the mind really that it has taken him this long to get appreciated. Someone posted something about him being a late bloomer. Seems like this guy has been top notch everytime he was given a chance.

 

[ACC1224]

He seems to have been a winner throughout his career. 3 gold medals in IIHF events, solid numbers in the NHL games he has been able to get into. Boggles the mind really that it has taken him this long to get appreciated. Someone posted something about him being a late bloomer. Seems like this guy has been top notch everytime he was given a chance.

I hope you're right. I like him, think he's a good goalie but it's just that nagging feeling that he's not proven enough.
If the cap didn't exist, I'd have no issue.