Tribute Jack Campbell Discussion Part 2

[Stephen]

What makes you say his workload has been "heavy"?

Campbell played 29 out of 37 or 78% of Leafs game to date and on pace for 63 games played total which is a similar start total to an Andrei Vasilevskiy and a little bit behind Saros who is starting at about 80% of Nashville's games. Campbell's career high in NHL starts is 31 games. The last time there was a full NHL season, the pro rated 63 games he will play this year would have placed 3rd in among all goalies.

These big games totals and wins totals and sparkling GAA and SV% and Vezina candidacy are all beautiful things. But if you're blowing multi goal leads in every single game played over a 2 week span, regardless of what the team is doing in front of you, that's a sign of mental or physical fatigue from over use.

 

[zeke]

Campbell played 29 out of 37 or 78% of Leafs game to date and on pace for 63 games played total which is a similar start total to an Andrei Vasilevskiy and a little bit behind Saros who is starting at about 80% of Nashville's games. Campbell's career high in NHL starts is 31 games. The last time there was a full NHL season, the pro rated 63 games he will play this year would have placed 3rd in among all goalies.

These big games totals and wins totals and sparkling GAA and SV% and Vezina candidacy are all beautiful things. But if you're blowing multi goal leads in every single game played over a 2 week span, regardless of what the team is doing in front of you, that's a sign of mental or physical fatigue from over use.

A little weird to pro-rate when there was a month off due to covid, no?

Jack has played 2 games in the last 10 days.

6 games in the last 36 days.

29 games in 100 days (7th most in the league).

How is any of that a heavy workload?

 

[ToneDog]

As opposed to someone who agreed with the fans who said the Leafs would be better spending Nylander's money on grinders?

What does that have to do with the choice of new GM ?? It is the end results that he will be judged by and 4 first round exits should be enough of a sample size. The guy "bet his job on this core". If he fails again, how do you give him another shot?? I don't see it but hey what do I know.

 

[zeke]

Last year from when Campbell returned from injury until the end of the playoffs he played 26 games in 71 days

That wasn't a particularly heavy workload, but much much heavier than the 29gms in 100 days he's played this year.

 

[ToneDog]

Last year from when Campbell returned from injury until the end of the playoffs he played 26 games in 71 days

That wasn't a particularly heavy workload, but much much heavier than the 29gms in 100 days he's played this year.

He has definitely proven to be more durable than he was during last season but at the end of the day you want him playing about 60 games max. Unless the Leafs have zero confidence in 35, we should see 36's workload eased a bit in February.

 

[Stephen]

A little weird to pro-rate when there was a month off due to covid, no?

Jack has played 2 games in the last 10 days.

6 games in the last 36 days.

29 games in 100 days (7th most in the league).

How is any of that a heavy workload?

Isn't pro rating over 82 games your lingua franca? Establishes a baseline and precedent for what kind season a player is having relative to peers?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Win a round and everybody wins. Lose and we'll find out. So far I believe Kyle remains to be extended.

But seriously, if the core 4 suck again, do you want the guy who bet his job on them at the helm? I will sure as hell will have seen enough of his flawed vision.

Is Dubas on the ice sucking? What’s considered a failure? Is there a plan to change the roster up or is it blindly go forward with the pieces we have? That doesn’t seem like something a pragmatic individual like Kyle would do.
If they flame out again and there’s refusal to adjust the make up of the team in exit meetings then sure shit can the whole brass, but as long as there’s a plan I’m sticking with smart quality individuals to do the job at hand.

 

[MR4]

Isn't pro rating over 82 games your lingua franca? Establishes a baseline and precedent for what kind season a player is having relative to peers?

It works for establishing performance comparison metrics.

I don’t know why you’d think it’s similar to how tired a player would get for playing x number of games in y days.

 

[ToneDog]

Is Dubas on the ice sucking? What’s considered a failure? Is there a plan to change the roster up or is it blindly go forward with the pieces we have? That doesn’t seem like something a pragmatic individual like Kyle would do.
If they flame out again and there’s refusal to adjust the make up of the team in exit meetings then sure shit can the whole brass, but as long as there’s a plan I’m sticking with smart quality individuals to do the job at hand.

I agree but it is not a good look when the guy who bet his job on this core has to dismantle it after 4 consecutive 1st round exits under his 4 year reign. No idea how MLSEL will see it.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I agree but it is not a good look when the guy who bet his job on this core has to dismantle it after 4 consecutive 1st round exits under his 4 year reign. No idea how MLSEL will see it.

What else is he supposed to say? “Well Jonas I’d trade one if I could get good value back, but that’s not happening right now?”

 

[ToneDog]

What else is he supposed to say? “Well Jonas I’d trade one if I could get good value back, but that’s not happening right now?”

Anything but "I am betting my job on this core".

 

[Nylanderthal]

Anything but "I am betting my job on this core".

Why? Why are you so attached to that? That’s literally what he’s supposed to say “go through a wall for these guys rah rah rah” that’s literally his job

 

[Stephen]

It works for establishing performance comparison metrics.

I don’t know why you’d think it’s similar to how tired a player would get for playing x number of games in y days.

So what are the two options here? That his current utilization rate is perfect despite never playing NHL games at this rate and his current struggles are…? No politically correct answer?

Or we could lighten the work load somewhat and keep him fresher, sharper, better?

 

[ToneDog]

Why? Why are you so attached to that? That’s literally what he’s supposed to say “go through a wall for these guys rah rah rah” that’s literally his job

Sure maybe it's me. Let's hope we do not have to cross that bridge this summer.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Sure maybe it's me. Let's hope we do not have to cross that bridge this summer.

It’s definitely you…

 

[ToneDog]

It’s definitely you…

We'll see but your last response about nobody caring about a 6 team house league wasn't a good look. Must be me again.

 

[Nylanderthal]

We'll see but your last response about nobody caring about a 6 team house league wasn't a good look. Must be me again.

Why? It was almost 60 years ago, anyone who remembers is nearing pension age. Nobody cares about 6 team league records in a league played by people who had to work construction and sales jobs off-season.

 

[MR4]

So what are the two options here? That his current utilization rate is perfect despite never playing NHL games at this rate and his current struggles are…? No politically correct answer?

Or we could lighten the work load somewhat and keep him fresher, sharper, better?

I’m just making clear that the physical exhaustion argument holds no weight.

I think a fairer argument is that with the high % of games that Keefe is giving him that the pressure of feeling like Campbell has been crowned as our #1 is putting too much responsibility on him, that he hasn’t had to deal with before

 

[Dekes For Days]

Or we could lighten the work load somewhat and keep him fresher, sharper, better?

His workload hasn't been heavy though. You talk about his percentage of games started, but that's stretched out over a long period of time with well-spaced out games. Also, the only time he hasn't been "fresher, sharper, better" was when his workload was lightened. He's obviously not going to start 63 GP, since our other goalie is now healthy, and we're moving into a more condensed portion of the schedule.

 

[ToneDog]

Why? It was almost 60 years ago, anyone who remembers is nearing pension age. Nobody cares about 6 team league records in a league played by people who had to work construction and sales jobs off-season.

You are ignoring the point. Nobody cared about the 67 Leafs' winning percentage. Likewise nobody gives a shit about Keefe's regular season winning percentage (including Keefe) if he can't win a lousy round.

 

[zeke]

Isn't pro rating over 82 games your lingua franca? Establishes a baseline and precedent for what kind season a player is having relative to peers?

For games played? Not sure that even makes sense?

Relative to his peers he's tied for 6th-10th in the league in games played, despite unlike many other goalies not missing any games to struggles or any games to injury. And with a nice weeks-long break in the middle there too.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No, I didn't. I made two statements addressing two separate claims within the original post. One was addressing the incorrect claim that Keefe was overusing Campbell. The other was addressing the incorrect claim suggesting that Keefe has little faith in Mrazek and it would take an injury to Campbell for Mrazek to start.

Sure you did. If you don't understand what the words mean you posted, then I really can't help you.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Sure you did.

I didn't, and I have explained it to you two times now to clear up any confusion you had. Please stop misrepresenting my words.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I didn't, and I have explained it to you two times now to clear up any confusion you had. Please stop misrepresenting my words.

Sure you did. And I didn't misrepresent you, I quoted you.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[Stephen]

I’m just making clear that the physical exhaustion argument holds no weight.

I think a fairer argument is that with the high % of games that Keefe is giving him that the pressure of feeling like Campbell has been crowned as our #1 is putting too much responsibility on him, that he hasn’t had to deal with before

You're the first person who used term "physical exhaustion" in the entire conversation, so of course it holds no weight. But 'fatigue' can certainly be a factor, whether that's just a bit of extra wear and tear or mounting pressure or loss in sharpness from being dialed in at a Vezina caliber for half a season. If we use the analogy of a baseball pitcher, Campbell is already about to hit his career high pitch count. Give him a little more rest, let him refocus and make sure we get more of the A game moving forward.