Line Combos: CBJ Roster Discussion/Line Combos/Injury Report

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[majormajor]

Hopefully we see this after the break

Marchenko - Monahan - Voronkov
Chinakhov - Fantilli - Johnson
Jenner - Del Bel Belluz - Sillinger
Olivier - Kuraly - JVR

Fabbro - Werenski
Severson - Provorov
Mateychuk - Christiansen

Merzlikins
Tarasov

Monahan and Marchy should be at least a couple weeks after the break.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Monahan and Marchy should be at least a couple weeks after the break.

The broadcast suggested Marchenko may be back after the break. Game 1

 

[majormajor]

The broadcast suggested Marchenko may be back after the break. Game 1

As long as Marchy is genuinely healed enough for it, that would be amazing for our chances.

Monahan of course shouldn't be back so soon, and I hope they let Ronny take most of his draws when he comes back.

 

[DankoCBJ]

JvR has been a terrific addition to this young team! Great guy to that locker room and a great mentor for the young guys. Still good enough on the ice as well.

I would actually give him another 1y deal for next year. God knows we need the depth to cover for these injuries that keep on coming year after year.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

JvR has been a terrific addition to this young team! Great guy to that locker room and a great mentor for the young guys. Still good enough on the ice as well.

I would actually give him another 1y deal for next year. God knows we need the depth to cover for these injuries that keep on coming year after year.

If he’s loved by the guys in the room here he’s probably been that kind of guy everywhere, at least in the “veteran” part of his career.

That said, if he’s genuinely a great thing for the kids, ask him if he’d take a two-year deal and a potentially declining role that would take him to retirement. He’s 35 with a May birthday. He has a kid in preschool in New Albany. This is the right age and stage in life for guys to want to live here.

Unless he has a plan for where to retire, or whatever, sit him down and lay it out. Tell him how he helps make this a playoff club the next two years, and his family can start to put down roots.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Probably, but with Jenner (and maybe Chinakhov?) returning, they may just be sent down.

Possibly, but they aren't letting the get 2 weeks off like the rest of the NHL roster. Cleveland has 4 games between now and the end of the break. I think we are full so somebody has to go when Boone gets activated. LDBB seems the most likely candidate for that based on role if they put Boone back to center for the time being until Monahan is back. He had a strong start on his callup but the game looks a bit fast for him right now over the last week or so. Even if they call him back up a few AHL games could help him reset a bit.

In any even, both of these players belong in the AHL anyway and with the TDL coming up we'll see how that shifts.

 

[majormajor]

If he’s loved by the guys in the room here he’s probably been that kind of guy everywhere, at least in the “veteran” part of his career.

That said, if he’s genuinely a great thing for the kids, ask him if he’d take a two-year deal and a potentially declining role that would take him to retirement. He’s 35 with a May birthday. He has a kid in preschool in New Albany. This is the right age and stage in life for guys to want to live here.

Unless he has a plan for where to retire, or whatever, sit him down and lay it out. Tell him how he helps make this a playoff club the next two years, and his family can start to put down roots.

I don't imagine it would take much special pleading to get JVR to come back, it seems like a great spot for him after he went unsigned late into the summer. Taking contracts year by year might be amenable to both sides - perhaps with the added offer that he can work for the team when he can no longer crack the roster.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Item No. 2: Reinforcements​

Blue Jackets coach Dean Evason said there are two whiteboards hanging side by side in the coaches’ office. The one on the right shows the current makeshift lineup, and the one on the left projects what the Blue Jackets might look like when play resumes following the 4 Nations Face-Off.

Jenner, who has missed the entire season to this point after a shoulder injury late in training camp, will return to the lineup on Feb. 22 vs. Chicago. It’s expected that Fabbro, out with a concussion since Feb. 2, will be ready to resume play, too.

“He’s doing much better,” Waddell said.

Fabbro will slot right back in next to Werenski. Where Jenner fits into the lineup remains to be seen, and Evason wasn’t saying.

During training camp, Jenner played left winger after spending several seasons at center. But with Monahan out, and the Blue Jackets struggling on faceoffs, Jenner could return to the middle, at least for the time being.

“We’ve talked (as coaches) about (Jenner’s) play, his game, and just him as a human being, and those guys (the coaches) are very close with him,” Evason said. “(Assistant coach Jared Boll), in particular, played with him plus coached him.

“So I’ve been given some firsthand accounts of who he is as a person and who he is as a player. So, am I excited about calling his name and having him jump over the boards? 100 percent.”

Beyond Jenner and Fabbro, the reinforcements get murky.

Marchenko did not require his broken jaw to be wired shut, which means he could return sooner than the typical 6 to 8 weeks required for a jaw to heal. He was in Nationwide Arena on Saturday, working with the training staff on a protective mask that could allow him to play sooner than expected.

The Blue Jackets expect Monahan and defenseman Erik Gudbranson to return by the middle or end of March, but Monahan may return in a limited capacity. He had surgery late last month to repair sprained ligaments in his right wrist, so it’s unclear if he’ll be able to step right back into his role as the Blue Jackets’ top faceoff man.

The biggest wild card of all is Yegor Chinakhov, who hasn’t played since Nov. 27 (35 games) due to a lower-back injury that he can’t seem to shake.

Chinakhov was in New York last week to see another specialist and a surgeon, and was told again that there’s nothing structurally wrong with his back and nothing that could be fixed with a surgical procedure, Waddell said.

“It’s all on him right now, when he feels like he can go,” Waddell said. “He’s seen all the doctors he can see. Everything is good in that way, he just keeps feeling some tightness (when he skates).

“You know how these things work. Doctors can say what they say and say what they see, but the individual has to feel as if he’s ready to go.”

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I don't imagine it would take much special pleading to get JVR to come back, it seems like a great spot for him after he went unsigned late into the summer. Taking contracts year by year might be amenable to both sides - perhaps with the added offer that he can work for the team when he can no longer crack the roster.

Yeah year to year is fine too I was just trying to simplify the process both parties’ benefit.

 

[LJ7]

I'll bet he doesn't want to miss the outdoor game

 

[CBJx614]

I'll ask this, do we really need a TRUE #1 RD? Someone worth possibly trading away a possible cornerstone piece for?

Fabbro has been eating minutes and looking good in the spot next to Werenski and has allowed him to play like a superstar.

I think we need some help and depth for sure, but a true #1? Is he going to get much PP when we're healthy? The system we had was working pretty well.

 

[Xoggz22]

I'll bet he doesn't want to miss the outdoor game

I bet he wants to help try to get the team to the playoffs...

 

[koteka]

I'll ask this, do we really need a TRUE #1 RD? Someone worth possibly trading away a possible cornerstone piece for?

Fabbro has been eating minutes and looking good in the spot next to Werenski and has allowed him to play like a superstar.

I think we need some help and depth for sure, but a true #1? Is he going to get much PP when we're healthy? The system we had was working pretty well.

I think we need at least a high #2 RD that you can play at the end of the game to hold a lead. Like back in the day we had the Zach - Seth Jones pair, but when the Jackets needed to stop the other team, Ryan Murray (if healthy) would play with Jones.

So you have

Werenski - Fabbro
Mateychuk - really good 2RD

most of the game, but if you want to hold a lead, you put in Werenski - really good 2RD. And a really good 2RD doesn’t come cheap.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I'll ask this, do we really need a TRUE #1 RD? Someone worth possibly trading away a possible cornerstone piece for?

Fabbro has been eating minutes and looking good in the spot next to Werenski and has allowed him to play like a superstar.

I think we need some help and depth for sure, but a true #1? Is he going to get much PP when we're healthy? The system we had was working pretty well.

Is a dependable-in-their-own-zone RD with size a "true #1"? Can you find someone who fits that description who's not a "true #1"? I think that would be the approach.

 

[CBJx614]

Is a dependable-in-their-own-zone RD with size a "true #1"? Can you find someone who fits that description who's not a "true #1"? I think that would be the approach.

So the only reason Fabbro isn't a true #1 is his size? My point or question I guess is do we take a chance at disrupting the chemistry that Z has with Fabbro?

If the perfect piece is available sure, but they don't exactly just grow on trees, ripe for the picking.

I agree with Koteka in the idea of getting a #2, at least for the foreseeable future. If we're locking up Fabbro and planning to keep him with Z, we need to find a minute munching RH or someone capable of playing on the right side vet, who we can attach to Mateychuks hip for a few seasons.

Severson isn't likely to be going anywhere any time soon and who knows how Gudbranson looks after a year off basically.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So the only reason Fabbro isn't a true #1 is his size? My point or question I guess is do we take a chance at disrupting the chemistry that Z has with Fabbro?

If the perfect piece is available sure, but they don't exactly just grow on trees, ripe for the picking.

I agree with Koteka in the idea of getting a #2, at least for the foreseeable future. If we're locking up Fabbro and planning to keep him with Z, we need to find a minute munching RH or someone capable of playing on the right side vet, who we can attach to Mateychuks hip for a few seasons.

Severson isn't likely to be going anywhere any time soon and who knows how Gudbranson looks after a year off basically.

I was just trying to find out what he meant by #1 to more thoughtfully answer the question if if we need one. The player I’m describing isn’t necessarily a #1. We’re all saying the same thing. A RD, ideally who trends defensive. The size thing is a nod to motels, who prefers d-men of stature.

 

[majormajor]

I'll ask this, do we really need a TRUE #1 RD? Someone worth possibly trading away a possible cornerstone piece for?

Fabbro has been eating minutes and looking good in the spot next to Werenski and has allowed him to play like a superstar.

I think we need some help and depth for sure, but a true #1? Is he going to get much PP when we're healthy? The system we had was working pretty well.

No, and you're correct we can't offer PP time.

I think we need at least a high #2 RD that you can play at the end of the game to hold a lead. Like back in the day we had the Zach - Seth Jones pair, but when the Jackets needed to stop the other team, Ryan Murray (if healthy) would play with Jones.

So you have

Werenski - Fabbro
Mateychuk - really good 2RD

most of the game, but if you want to hold a lead, you put in Werenski - really good 2RD. And a really good 2RD doesn’t come cheap.

Fabbro is looking terrific to me defensively. Very stout and very sharp.

I would like us to have a McDonagh type - excellent shutdown D with a strong all around game - to the next pairing.

Maybe Gavrikov is the closest thing to that we can get, and wouldn't cost us trade assets. Or perhaps Adam Pelech gets back to that level with a trade, he was for a while considered a top tier shutdown D.

If we're intent on a RHD then Pulock fits better than Pelech. But I'm not sure handedness is a pivotal issue. Gavrikov is playing his best hockey on the right. And we're not exactly sure how the pairings would shake out. It's possible that Mateychuk will be on a separate pairing from this incoming D or that Mateychuk will fit better on the right. Seven or eight years ago the LIghtning were in a similar position - they had Hedman as the star #1D on the left, and Sergachev coming up on the left, and they wanted a big defensive upgrade. So they traded for McDonagh, also on the left. It worked out okay, all three played big minutes anyways.

None of the targets I mentioned would cost us a Voronkov or KJ level player. Heck, McDonagh never cost a player like that either.

 

[koteka]

Seven or eight years ago the LIghtning were in a similar position - they had Hedman as the star #1D on the left, and Sergachev coming up on the left, and they wanted a big defensive upgrade. So they traded for McDonagh, also on the left. It worked out okay, all three played big minutes anyways.

Interestingly, they considered Cernak core and not Sergechev and McDonagh. Is that because they had a right D good enough to make their left D heavy system work for those Cup runs? I don’t mind being heavy on the left D, but we don’t have our Cernak. I have always thought he was the most underrated player on the Lightning during their Cup seasons.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Heavy D you say?

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I don't know about Chychrun's advanced stats. Ottawa fans were not kind about his play. Caps fans like him more. That's all I know.

i spent like two years banging the drum for chychrun here when he was reportedly available. legitimate dude and a top-pair quality defenseman. and his age aligns better to the jackets core.

that said… I'd be surprised if the caps don't extend him. player seems like a great fit there. jackets had plenty of chances to get him here and balked at it when (iirc) his agent said he didn't see columbus as a long-term home.

That and he's been very very injury prone over the years. Gavrikov has been remarkably durable and it doesn't look like he's lost any quickness at all, so take that along with his defensive ability. If I had to pick between that group it would be him.

this point is part of why I've actually come around to extending provorov if the numbers are reasonable.

he doesn't miss games, plays both sides, can log big minutes and seems well-liked in the room. also works great with werenski and should continue to be good with mateychuk as he grows. dude also plays his heart out every night.

not opposed to trading him, but the value prop getting a bit iffy in my mind.

• is this year's UFA crop (chychrun, gavrikov, pionk, ekblad) better than provorov on the ice?
• will those guys even hit the UFA market?
• if they do, can columbus win a bidding war?
• if columbus does win the bidding war, how will their contract look compared to what provorov is asking for?
• if they backfill via trade instead of free agency:
  1. will any players who are meaningful upgrades over provorov be available on the market?
  2. if so, will they be a fit?
  3. if so, will they be cost-prohibitive to acquire

I wouldn't be surprised if none of those UFAs actually hit he market. chychrun and pionk are upgrades in my mind, but as UFAs they'd likely require much bigger deals than provorov. would love a gavrikov reunion but I doubt LA lets him hit the market, and imo provorov's versatility gives him a leg up.

backfilling his spot via trade is preferable but the market is a black box and the top guy people bring up (andersson) is certainly going to have an 8-figure AAV on his next deal. the best long-term piece rumored to be available is owen power – I love the player but his fit on a roster with werenski and mateychuk is murky.

the ideal end state here is probably a short-ish term, high AAV extension for provorov (something like $8.5m x 3 years) that's maybe a tad longer than what waddell gave to orlov.

1. gives him a swing at a bigger deal when the cap is much higher
2. gives the jackets short-term stability and a bridge to mateychuk/elick
3. gives them long-term flexibility (cap and roster math)
4. can kick the can down the road on trading him

seems like the best outcome to me.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I'll ask this, do we really need a TRUE #1 RD? Someone worth possibly trading away a possible cornerstone piece for?

Fabbro has been eating minutes and looking good in the spot next to Werenski and has allowed him to play like a superstar.

I think we need some help and depth for sure, but a true #1? Is he going to get much PP when we're healthy? The system we had was working pretty well.

You don’t. Which is why the idea of trading Voronkov (or insert any of the core young pieces here) for one is unfathomable to me. Yes, you need an elite defenseman, at least one (which we do), surrounded by very good ones who play a variety of roles. You need a good RHD, at least one or two, but there’s nothing that says they have to be your best guy.

Fabbro would be fine. Severson as the third or second RHD is fine. Getting a second or third RHD who’s a shutdown guy is good enough, imo.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

You don’t. Which is why the idea of trading Voronkov (or insert any of the core young pieces here) for one is unfathomable to me.

I agree that they don't need to rush into a huge trade for a defenseman (unless they're really sold on someone like owen power and his ability to fit this roster) and I know this isn't exactly the thread for this, but I think voronkov is more likely to get traded this summer than people maybe realize.

if they were to go after a legitimate star-level player, voronkov would be a highly appealing piece.

love voronkov as a player, but his success has come 1) netfront on the power play and 2) at 5v5 with marchenko and monahan – two guys who have success with everyone. he's also due for a massive raise as an RFA.

they have other guys who can play that netfront role (monahan, jenner) and they've been connected to boeser, who is good netfront and in the bumper. kreider has also been reportedly available and he is a prolific netfront guy who brings a lot more pace.

not saying they should or will trade him, just that voronkov seems more likely to be traded than any of their other young pieces aside from sillinger.

Yes, you need an elite defenseman, at least one (which we do), surrounded by very good ones who play a variety of roles. You need a good RHD, at least one or two, but there’s nothing that says they have to be your best guy.

assuming extensions for fabbro (5ish years) and provorov (let's say an orlov-style 2-year, high-aav deal), and a push in the summer to trade one of gudbranson/severson, you'd run into next season with something like:

​

werenski - fabbro​

mateychuk - provorov​

TBD - severson/gudbranson​

​

solid group, no need to overthink things. fabbro works with werenski. provorov is a legit second pair guy who can log big minutes in any role. it's a lot easier to plug a hole at LD3 (ex: trading for soucy, signing cole) than it is to find a top-four RHD without an egregious overpay.

the alternative is signing a big-money, long-term deal to get a declining ekblad or pionk in free agency, or trading for a contract year rasmus andersson, who will surely be demanding $10m+ AAV with term on his next deal, given the cap growth curve.

 

[majormajor]

Interestingly, they considered Cernak core and not Sergechev and McDonagh. Is that because they had a right D good enough to make their left D heavy system work for those Cup runs? I don’t mind being heavy on the left D, but we don’t have our Cernak. I have always thought he was the most underrated player on the Lightning during their Cup seasons.

Cernak was a key piece. But he also struggled without McDonagh, they brought McDonagh back largely because it was like they lost both of them when they traded McDonagh.

 

[Cowumbus]

Voronkov’s also due for a massive raise as an RFA.

Massive as in what …?

I see some predictive models saying 4-5x3.