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It's a damned shame that France is out.

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Siludin

Registered User
Dec 9, 2010
7,643
5,604
They played so well. Hats off to French hockey. They have our attention now after this performance. Can't wait to see how things develop for them internationally.
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It's not the first time they've played a great tournament. 3 years ago they finished 8th and 5 years ago 9th (they were 9th this year).

They play with a lot of heart and those few top guys (Roussel, Bellemare, Da Costa, Auvitu) always elevate their play for their country.

Playing in front of their fans, this was definitely not a fluke. But it doesn't necessarily mean French hockey is on the rise, it's just this team that's had some success. Take away two of their top guys and they probably lose most of their games like they did the past couple of years.

Reminds me of Belarus when Grabovski and the Kostitsyn bros were younger, they had some very competitive tournaments and were able to challenge bigger countries as well. Well not so much the last few years..
 
I hope they pick it up for the sake of hockey, it is a large country. How's their program, any improvement the latest years?
 
French hockey is on the rise.
The French ice hockey federation was created only in 2006 (before, it was "ice sports" with 20+ others sports).

Since :
*from 16000 players to 22000
*a few new rinks opening
*a federal center built in Cergy, where will play a U18 NT next year and other NT (including women)
*the French cup final in Bercy (sold out every year since 2007)
*the Magnus league coming from 26 games to 44
*1 or 2 teams competing in CHL and defending themselves well
*3 players reaching the NHL (and Da Costa could be the 4th next year)
*another in KHL (Fleury) and several in foreign countries (Bertrand, Claireaux in Liiga for example)
*the U18 team won the D1A this season to promote to the big show
*the U20 team finished 3rd, which was the 2nd best finish ever, in D1A
*one prospect, Alexandre Texier, ranked 16th in the Euro list from CBS, with NHL scouts coming to League Magnus this season (and not only for Texier)
*a quarter finals in Minsk
*win vs Russia (2013), Canada (2014), Finland (2017-1st ever).
*After losing with 7+ goals against in our 1st years, all the games were tight this year and we definitely gave a scare to Canada.


We have a few good prospects coming, youngsters progressing and yes, we're definitely on the rise. Though the margin of error is so thin, depends of our NHLers. When they're not there, it's really hard, of course.

There was a lot of critics about the organization, but it was my 7th worlds and it wasn't the worst I saw, believe me. Yes, no fan zone wasn't good, but not the organization fault (state of emergency). And most of the topic of complaints is about beer (come on...)

As a media stand point, the organization was great, way better than in Minsk for example.
 
Is it really though? I don't know that there's any countries who have seen a decrease in the number of rinks and players in the past 10 years, that's always thrown out there but I don't know the significance is what it's made out to be. French teams are 5/5 finishing last in their group in the CHL.

If you told me in 2009 that French hockey was on the rise I'd believe you. Da Costa tearing up the USHL, Roussel excelling in the Q, Auvitu heading up the Jr. Sm-Liiga, three solid guys who looked like they could really make it and good Euro pros as well.

Junior Championships are always a crapshoot. On a good year a team will have 3-4 good future prospects, maybe, if lucky. Sometimes a deeper team will do ok, but that's irrelevant because most the kids won't play pro hockey, or the team will have a better coach. This year there Texier but who else? There's the 19 year old who couldn't cut it in the NAHL, there's the 20 year old who's below average in the NAHL, there is another 19 year old Jr. SM-Liiga defender but he's got a fraction of the points, slated to stay in juniors next season.

Players were in foreign countries back then too, Sacha Treille, Laurent Meunier, Kevin Hecquefeuille, Yorick Treille, PE Bellemare, Huet in the NHL.

Regardless of any opinions on him, Texier is one guy. I'm not saying he's completely alone. Enzo Guebey for instance also looks like a future pro. But what's to say 89' wasn't a golden generation? Who will be the French athletes in the NHL, the KHL, SHL, NLA, Liiga on the road to Beijing 2022?

To be absolutely clear I'm not out on a mission for France, I had this introspection with my own country as well. I put out my future roster for France in the How do you currently rank thread, I'd be interested in your thoughts and where you feel I am underestimating the future selection.
 
Is it really though? I don't know that there's any countries who have seen a decrease in the number of rinks and players in the past 10 years, that's always thrown out there but I don't know the significance is what it's made out to be. French teams are 5/5 finishing last in their group in the CHL.
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Yes, I agree, the rink situation is awful, especially in Paris area. Most of the rinks are from the 70's and several closed.
Still, some are new. Marseille has now a huge one, Angers is working on a bigger one, Tours has one in discussion as well, and there is several huge cities from French hockey which are also working on some things.
I agree though, a lot of work to do.
We had 16.500 players 10 years ago, now it's 22.000 so no decrease...
As for the CHL, Magnus is low on the Euro map. Still, Grenoble and Gap had a win recently, that's a progress. With the league expanded to 44 games, we'll be more attractive to better players and the overall level will rise in a few years.



If you told me in 2009 that French hockey was on the rise I'd believe you. Da Costa tearing up the USHL, Roussel excelling in the Q, Auvitu heading up the Jr. Sm-Liiga, three solid guys who looked like they could really make it and good Euro pros as well.
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These players are of course exceptionnal talents.
Still, I was in Quebec in 2008 for the return to elite and we were really bad. This year, we could have won all 7 games, it was very close each game. The days with 7+ goals against are gone.



Junior Championships are always a crapshoot. On a good year a team will have 3-4 good future prospects, maybe, if lucky. Sometimes a deeper team will do ok, but that's irrelevant because most the kids won't play pro hockey, or the team will have a better coach. This year there Texier but who else? There's the 19 year old who couldn't cut it in the NAHL, there's the 20 year old who's below average in the NAHL, there is another 19 year old Jr. SM-Liiga defender but he's got a fraction of the points, slated to stay in juniors next season.
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The U18 this year was huge for us because they kept the same spirit as the senior team : a family, a hard working team, a never-say-die attitude. We need that, and that's the 1st time ever they promote. I was at the U18 in 2014 and we barely edged Italy. I'll call that a progress.
Yes, behind Texier, Addamo started well but fadded, Leclerc will join Merrimack and Gallet in Finland is still our biggest hope in D but needs time.


Players were in foreign countries back then too, Sacha Treille, Laurent Meunier, Kevin Hecquefeuille, Yorick Treille, PE Bellemare, Huet in the NHL.
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Yes, but back then, in 2006-2008, a lof of players were naturalized from Quebec and the bottom-6 was crap. This year, we never had such a competition in training camp. they even had to cut longtime good soldier Yorick Treille.

Regardless of any opinions on him, Texier is one guy. I'm not saying he's completely alone. Enzo Guebey for instance also looks like a future pro. But what's to say 89' wasn't a golden generation? Who will be the French athletes in the NHL, the KHL, SHL, NLA, Liiga on the road to Beijing 2022?
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That's the key. We develop a lot of future 3rd-4th liners. But in French league, the top-6 minutes and top-2 d-men are nearly all foreign players. The top-30 on defense scoring has just Trabichet, Chakiachvili and Dame-Malka as French players. And that's a real problem.

To be absolutely clear I'm not out on a mission for France, I had this introspection with my own country as well. I put out my future roster for France in the How do you currently rank thread, I'd be interested in your thoughts and where you feel I am underestimating the future selection.
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I'll comment here :)



France
Forwards: Tim Bozon, Alexandre Texier, Anthony Rech, Jordann Perret, Maurin Bouvet, Nicolas Ritz, Floran Douay, Gabin Ville, Bastien Maia, Eliot Berthon, Hugo Sarlin, Rudy Matima

Defensemen: Enzo Guebey, Florian Chajiavili, Hugo Gallet, Pierre Crinon, Raphael Faure, Aziz Baazzi, Thomas Thiry, Jeremie Penz
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Forwards : I agree. I wish Bozon success but he hasn't showed a lot, and his attitude is a question mark.
Rech is the biggest riser this year and will be headed to Germany. I hope he takes another step. You forgot Claireaux, another biggest riser and only 26.
Perret, Bouvet and Douay need, IMO, to take a step. Douay is already in Switzerland, the 2 others need to take the foreign route as well.
It's a good list and I have hope that a few will take a top-6 role. No doubt IMO for Texier and Rech, the others, we'll see. I liked Sarlin in U18.

Defense : the biggest probleme here. I was making a list and scratched my head... terrific lack of depth.
Guebey looks like he has a great future. Chakiachvili can be way better than this year. Crino progressed nicelly this year. Gallet, Faure, Thiry (and you forgot Pascal) are our best prospect in this spot since a long time, though Faure will probably a depth one. Baazzi is way too small and won't succeed : he's less good than Moisand, who couldn't crack it. Penz, I don't know a lof from him yet.
Plaquevent, born in 2000, another one to look.


In all, I really agree on your post.
There are progresses, clearly, but we have to work on our depth. We can't rely on our NHLers every year, and it's going to be a challenge to stay in the biggest stage every year.
Still, I have faith. Our kids are better than before. A player from Magnus league scouted by the NHL ? I would never have dreamt of that 10 years ago.
Instead of pilons like Henderson and Tardif Jr, we now have a bottom-6 with quick players with hands, like Perret, Douay, Rech, Claireaux, Ritz who all could be future top-6 players. They need to take a step, I agree. A lot of work...
 
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Yeah, that point they gave to Belarus really ended up being the deal breaker. They should have been in playoffs but you have to stay sharp even against weaker opposition.
 
ijuka said:
Yeah, that point they gave to Belarus really ended up being the deal breaker. They should have been in playoffs but you have to stay sharp even against weaker opposition.
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That's the key. Finding consistency, stamina for 7 games in 10 days.

The problems are, IMO :
-center position. Behind Bellemare, nobody managed to win a face off.
-defense depth : awful. We need to clone Auvitu, he's the lone who can skate with the puck and have some offensive impact.
-stamina
-creating the play. We're good against the big-6 because we fight like dogs on a bone, sacrifice and playing counter-attack. Against teams about the same level as us, if they defend well, we don't manage to create something.
 
They've always been a mid level program for me. Still given France is a well known nation you would like to see their hockey program be bigger than what it is.
 
Congrats, French hockey. Well done. Too bad you are out now and I must root for this Finnish team for the sake of formal decency.
 
Belizarius said:
Forwards : I agree. I wish Bozon success but he hasn't showed a lot, and his attitude is a question mark.
Rech is the biggest riser this year and will be headed to Germany. I hope he takes another step. You forgot Claireaux, another biggest riser and only 26.
Perret, Bouvet and Douay need, IMO, to take a step. Douay is already in Switzerland, the 2 others need to take the foreign route as well.
It's a good list and I have hope that a few will take a top-6 role. No doubt IMO for Texier and Rech, the others, we'll see. I liked Sarlin in U18.

Defense : the biggest probleme here. I was making a list and scratched my head... terrific lack of depth.
Guebey looks like he has a great future. Chakiachvili can be way better than this year. Crino progressed nicelly this year. Gallet, Faure, Thiry (and you forgot Pascal) are our best prospect in this spot since a long time, though Faure will probably a depth one. Baazzi is way too small and won't succeed : he's less good than Moisand, who couldn't crack it. Penz, I don't know a lof from him yet.
Plaquevent, born in 2000, another one to look.


In all, I really agree on your post.
There are progresses, clearly, but we have to work on our depth. We can't rely on our NHLers every year, and it's going to be a challenge to stay in the biggest stage every year.
Still, I have faith. Our kids are better than before. A player from Magnus league scouted by the NHL ? I would never have dreamt of that 10 years ago.
Instead of pilons like Henderson and Tardif Jr, we now have a bottom-6 with quick players with hands, like Perret, Douay, Rech, Claireaux, Ritz who all could be future top-6 players. They need to take a step, I agree. A lot of work...
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Very fair, there's always reason to have faith.

About Claireaux, he will realistically be with the team at the time because he'll only be 31, however, the parameter of the exercise was 92 born to 99 born athletes which is why he wasn't on the list.

Rech probably looks the best of the local leaguers to me. I didn't know Bozon had attitude question marks I thought his health was of concern. I haven't seen much of Pascal, the stats of course aren't always indicative. Perret had a lot of people excited last year I don't know what happened there. It'll be a good enough team, but it needs a lot of work to become a great team.
 
Alessandro Seren Rosso said:
6209 spectators today :help:
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Yep. The Swiss-Sweden game is a better but not sold-out.

The ticket prices were a huge question mark for all the fans. And Paris is not a hockey town. Too expansive for a good marketing plan as well (the ads are way too expansive here...)


Players :
Rech just signed a try-out with Schwenningen in DEL. Will have to prove himself at training camp.
 
Urbanskog said:
Do you know what the attendance was like for quarterfinals last year in St. Petersburg? 5 038 for Finland - Denmark and 6 090 for Canada - Sweden. Considering that even France pulls better numbers than Russia, I sure hope that we won't see another WC in Russia any time soon.
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Thanks for the memory, that's a great data :naughty:
 
Even in Cologne, Germany didn't sell out against Canada and USA-Finland did poorly, at least by their superb standards. Quarters are a tough sell.

Overall attendance in France was not that bad when compared with other "2nd tier" bids, the difference perhaps being that usually 2nd tier hosts are smaller cities and often have moderately sized venues.

Here the arena was pretty big and the population around Paris is enormous, so the contrast is more jarring. And some France games did sell surprisingly bad.

I also think there is a bit of a defence reflex by some hockey fans, similar to what you see with non traditional NHL markets.

If a traditional market doesn't respond, there are outside factors.
If a non traditional market doesn't respond, it's unacceptable.

I guess seeing such a peculiar sport as hockey get middling results in a big market like this reminds its fans how niche it is in the grand scheme of things, and makes people uncomfortable.

When hockey is an unexpected hit in a non traditional market, hockey fans feel validation, when it doesn't they really feel the niche status.

But it's true that Moscow (a large market with a strong tradition of hockey success) has been a pretty lame host for this event the last couple times. Moscow is not a hockey town but doesn't get outright derogatory comments like those France has gotten.
 
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