Proposal: Islanders-Canadiens

[HabsTown]

With LV coming in, some teams are going to be forced to expose more than 1 good player.

I may be wrong, but Islanders seem to be one of them with their D and some good serviceable forwards (Thinking CDH, Lee, Nelson, Pulock (I think he classifies for it, not sure though!).


Montreal seems at a good spot for now with the 7+3+1 combo, as they will mostly expose 3rd pairing guys and bottom 6 forwards.

Is there something to work with a kind of 2 for 1 deal, so Isles get value for (mostly logical) exposed players and the risk of losing a good player shift on Montreal's side :



CDH
Anders Lee
Nikolay Kulemin (incentive to close the gap value-wise)



Tomas Plekanec
Stefan Matteau
Sven Andrighetto
2nd 2017

How I see it

CDH + Lee > Plekanec + Sven Andrighetto
Matteau+ 2nd >Kulemin (for cap savings)


Then, Montreal goes the 8 skaters/1 goalie route : Weber-Petry-Beaulieu-CDH-Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Gallagher-Shaw

The downside is leaving Lee exposed. It could be between Lee & Shaw.

Then, Islanders would be able to protect (correct me if I'm wrong)

Pulock-Boychuk-Leddy-Hamonic-Tavares-Ladd-Strome-Nelson/Plekanec (same as Lee&Shaw, one could be traded to get non-exposed players and this assure them to expose the player they don't care losing instead of exposing 3 quality players.)

Both lineups could be improved for this season

Habs potential lineup

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Lehkonen/Hudon-Lee-Radulov
Kulemin-McCarron (buyout DD)-Shaw
Danault/Carr-Mitchell-Byron/Carr

CDH-Weber
Markov-Petry
Beaulieu-Pateryn/Barberio

*Find a taker for Emelin for a pick or lesser player with less $. Anyway, you deal with that later on.
* I watch plenty of Isles' games and I know Lee has been used on LW, but he has played C before. I perfectly know It's risky to slot him at 2C.

Isles potential lineup

Ladd-JT-PAP
Nelson-Plekanec-Strome
Chimera-Cizikas-Andrighetto
Prince/Quine-Bailey-Clutterbuck
Matteau

Leddy-Boychuck
Hickey-Hamonic
Mayfield (?)-Pulock

Click to read more...

 

[CodeE]

Absolutely not. Islanders lose a ton of value packaging DeHaan and Lee and not getting anything of value in return. A guy who'll be 34 in October, two prospects who can't crack an NHL lineup, and of course a 2nd to even it out.

 

[ohmyjlord]

Offer...

Not sure I like that for the Habs...

First, that's putting a lot of faith in Lehkonen/Hudon (the later of which we'd also have to protect), as that trade doesn't solve our issue at LW2, and eventhough Lee is a player I could easily live with, I see him as a downgrade to Plekanec at C2 right now. Also, not quite sure the upgrade from Beaulieu to CDH is worth it, I would just give Beaulieu a try. Kulemin doesn't interest me at all personally. Not this year, and even less next year.

Then you add Andrighetto, who's probably the most legit option we have at LW2 right now (along with Carr), Matteau (who isn't worth much) and a 2nd ? To do what I would consider an overall downgrade for our 2nd line ?

Yeah, no...sorry, personally, I pass without any hesitation.

 

[xIsle]

Not sure I like that for the Habs...

First, that's putting a lot of faith in Lehkonen/Hudon (the later of which we'd also have to protect), as that trade doesn't solve our issue at LW2, and eventhough Lee is a player I could easily live with, I see him as a downgrade to Plekanec at C2 right now. Also, not quite sure the upgrade from Beaulieu to CDH is worth it, I would just give Beaulieu a try. Kulemin doesn't interest me at all personally. Not this year, and even less next year.

Then you add Andrighetto, who's probably the most legit option we have at LW2 right now (along with Carr), Matteau (who isn't worth much) and a 2nd ? To do what I would consider an overall downgrade for our 2nd line ?

Yeah, no...sorry, personally, I pass without any hesitation.

Lee is not a center, he never played at that position since he is in the NHL. So he would probably be the LW2 for the Habs.

As an Isles fan, I'd pass. Not interrested in trading de Haan and Lee for Plekanec. We have Strome who can play that position for next year plus we have Barzal who could be ready pretty soon.

 

[HabsTown]

Lee is not a center, he never played at that position since he is in the NHL. So he would probably be the LW2 for the Habs.

As an Isles fan, I'd pass. Not interrested in trading de Haan and Lee for Plekanec. We have Strome who can play that position for next year plus we have Barzal who could be ready pretty soon.

Fair enough! As for Lee, that's what I meant, pre-NHL he played C.

 

[PWJunior]

Absolutely not. Islanders lose a ton of value packaging DeHaan and Lee and not getting anything of value in return. A guy who'll be 34 in October, two prospects who can't crack an NHL lineup, and of course a 2nd to even it out.

Agreed, this makes zero sense for the Isles and is quite terrible value for them too.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

We're giving up way too much. I want Plekanec, but not for that.

 

[HabsTown]

We're giving up way too much. I want Plekanec, but not for that.

Honestly, I knew it might be underselling for NYI.

My thinking was (let's say as a example) Snow made his decision that he's deadset to lose Nelson. Maybe He'd rather have Plekanec protected and lose Nelson as he doesn't care about him (kind of, you do understand I'm sure) then leaving exposed CDH-Lee-Nelson and risking losing CDH or Lee for nothing and still have his less ''favorite choice'' on the team. Still, I totally understand why NYI wouldn't do it.

On that subject.. a possibility for Lee+ small add for Plekanec? Assuming Mtl could get Shipachev.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

Honestly, I knew it might be underselling for NYI.

My thinking was (let's say as a example) Snow made his decision that he's deadset to lose Nelson. Maybe He'd rather have Plekanec protected and lose Nelson as he doesn't care about him (kind of, you do understand I'm sure) then leaving exposed CDH-Lee-Nelson and risking losing CDH or Lee for nothing and still have his less ''favorite choice'' on the team. Still, I totally understand why NYI wouldn't do it.

On that subject.. a possibility for Lee+ small add for Plekanec? Assuming Mtl could get Shipachev.

I'd rather do Bailey, Pelech/Mayfield, 2nd for Plekanec. We don't desperately need him more than we need a RW.

 

[kingdok]

I think I do it from Habs POV, only because they win on the value side. But really not sure about that center depth though.

 

[hototogisu]

The problem is, Lee isn't a center. I like getting Lee as an upgrade to our LW (desperately needed) and I like getting CDH as an upgrade to our LD (also needed).

But taking out Plekanec and not getting a true C back leaves a huge crater down the middle, especially since we just traded Eller.

So value-wise I think Montreal wins, but it would leave us with a significant enough hole that would prevent us from doing the trade.

I can see why NYI wouldn't have much interest in doing it either.

But the pieces are interesting. Thanks for not making another Emelin/DD proposal, at least.

 

[Jester9881]

So let me get this..... in order to prevent losing one good young player for nothing.... the Islanders should lose two good young players? There should at least be some kind of incentive on the Islanders side to part with a young top 4 defenseman and a young middle 6 winger. Kulemins contract isn't great, but hardly an albatross.

 

[Felix Unger]

I thought there was a potential deal involving NYI/MTL as hototogisu said, before the Eller trade. After the Eller trade and Nielsen's departure from NYI, both teams have similar holes to fill.

At any rate, I think NYI are going to lose someone of value in the expansion draft (likely de Haan, Nelson or Lee). You can't manage at the beginning of the season being scared about what might happen after it is over.

 

[HabsTown]

So let me get this..... in order to prevent losing one good young player for nothing.... the Islanders should lose two good young players? There should at least be some kind of incentive on the Islanders side to part with a young top 4 defenseman and a young middle 6 winger. Kulemins contract isn't great, but hardly an albatross.

There's a lot of ''if'', I concede that haha. Let me clarify the situation since it's all about the importance given about the perception of these players (mainly from Snow)

If Garth Snow took the decision that Nelson (could be Lee too, swap him and Nelson in the proposal if so) is the one he wants to be picked, he could make a trade to get value for Lee-CDH instead of Rolling the dice (by exposing Lee-CDH-Nelson) and risking losing Lee or CDH for free and keep Nelson (assuming he wants him to be the one sacrificed).

So, with the trade, we assume he likes Plekanec to fill the 2C (and Andrighetto to help the RW, can play LW too) and then he can protect Pulock and Plekanec (goes to the 8+1 combo), leaving Nelson exposed (still assuming that from the beginning, Snow made him his target to be picked.)

Basically, it comes downs to :

1-Willing to roll the dice or expose the player he wants
2- Which combo he prefers to have (after the expansion draft) between

CDH-Lee (least probable I think)
CDH-Nelson
Nelson-Lee
Plekanec-Andrighetto (+ approx. 3-4m savings on cap)

 

[Treb]

Something around Lee and Andrighetto+ ?

Gives you a cheap NHL-ready RW (that can also play C/LW) and gives us a LW for the 2nd line. Also saves you 3.1M.

We could also do something around Emelin and De Haan, but I think you'd say no.

 

[MikeyMike01]

There's a lot of ''if'', I concede that haha. Let me clarify the situation since it's all about the importance given about the perception of these players (mainly from Snow)

If Garth Snow took the decision that Nelson (could be Lee too, swap him and Nelson in the proposal if so) is the one he wants to be picked, he could make a trade to get value for Lee-CDH instead of Rolling the dice (by exposing Lee-CDH-Nelson) and risking losing Lee or CDH for free and keep Nelson (assuming he wants him to be the one sacrificed).

So, with the trade, we assume he likes Plekanec to fill the 2C (and Andrighetto to help the RW, can play LW too) and then he can protect Pulock and Plekanec (goes to the 8+1 combo), leaving Nelson exposed (still assuming that from the beginning, Snow made him his target to be picked.)

Basically, it comes downs to :

1-Willing to roll the dice or expose the player he wants
2- Which combo he prefers to have (after the expansion draft) between

CDH-Lee (least probable I think)
CDH-Nelson
Nelson-Lee
Plekanec-Andrighetto (+ approx. 3-4m savings on cap)

How does trading away one of Lee/Nelson/DeHaan prevent Las Vegas from picking one of the other two?

 

[Mersss]

I'd rather do Bailey, Pelech/Mayfield, 2nd for Plekanec. We don't desperately need him more than we need a RW.

So you'd rather offer a pile of trash for a 50-60pts 2nd line C

Who wouldn't?

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

So you'd rather offer a pile of trash for a 50-60pts 2nd line C

Who wouldn't?

Pelech/Mayfield and a 2nd is not trash.

Bailey however, yes is trash.

 

[CodeE]

So you'd rather offer a pile of trash for a 50-60pts 2nd line C

Who wouldn't?

As opposed to offering a pile of trash for both Dehaan and Lee?

 

[Mersss]

As opposed to offering a pile of trash for both Dehaan and Lee?

IIRC, A steady 50pts C, top10 defensively is not trash.

Andrighetto isn't trash either.

Bailey is a 4th liner, which we already have enough, and Pelech and Mayfield are either career AHLer or 6-7th d-man... WHY would the Habs trade Plekanec for that?

Let's be honnest here, Plekanec in the OP's deal, Plekanec gives an upgrade to NYI at their 2C position. CDH is a good 2nd pairing D IMO, but needs to be paired with a good defensive d-man!

Not saying that deal is worth it for the Isles, but at least they are getting 2 NHL player and a 2nd vs Habs getting a 4th liner and AHLer!

 

[Mersss]

Pelech/Mayfield and a 2nd is not trash.

Bailey however, yes is trash.

Pelech hasn't been able yet to establish himself as an NHL d-man.

Same for Mayfield.

I do not see them being any more then bottom pairing D's at this point. Plekanec, however, is an establish 50pts C who's probably top10 in the D-zone in the NHL. Why would we give Plekanec for a 6-7-AHLer d-man, a cap dump and a mid/low 2nd round pick.

IMO, Plekanec will be dealt at the deadline and will return a 1st round pick + (see Vermette deal)

 

[CodeE]

IIRC, A steady 50pts C, top10 defensively is not trash.

Andrighetto isn't trash either.

Bailey is a 4th liner, which we already have enough, and Pelech and Mayfield are either career AHLer or 6-7th d-man... WHY would the Habs trade Plekanec for that?

Let's be honnest here, Plekanec in the OP's deal, Plekanec gives an upgrade to NYI at their 2C position. CDH is a good 2nd pairing D IMO, but needs to be paired with a good defensive d-man!

Not saying that deal is worth it for the Isles, but at least they are getting 2 NHL player and a 2nd vs Habs getting a 4th liner and AHLer!

Plekanec will be 34 in October next year. Montreal fans seem as anxious to move his high cap hit as Islanders fans are to trade Grabo or Kulemin for cap relief.

Bailey, Pelech, and Mayfield all have about the same value as Andrighetto and Matteau. Young players who can't crack an NHL lineup and are expendable to their respective franchises. If our guys are trash, so are your guys. None of this "we don't want your career AHLers and 4th liners but you should want our 23-year-olds who can't make the big club but are still totally valuable and I'll refer to them as legit NHL players cause even though they can't make our team they might make yours" nonsense.

As of right now, the two most valuable pieces in the deal are CDH and Lee. Neither will be moved for a package of uninteresting NHL/AHL tweeners with low potential.

 

[Mersss]

Plekanec will be 34 in October next year. Montreal fans seem as anxious to move his high cap hit as Islanders fans are to trade Grabo or Kulemin for cap relief.

Bailey, Pelech, and Mayfield all have about the same value as Andrighetto and Matteau. Young players who can't crack an NHL lineup and are expendable to their respective franchises. If our guys are trash, so are your guys. None of this "we don't want your career AHLers and 4th liners but you should want our 23-year-olds who can't make the big club but are still totally valuable and I'll refer to them as legit NHL players cause even though they can't make our team they might make yours" nonsense.

As of right now, the two most valuable pieces in the deal are CDH and Lee. Neither will be moved for a package of uninteresting NHL/AHL tweeners with low potential.

Why would we be anxious to get rid of a 2 year contract? We don't need that cap space int he next 2 years anyways.

Until Lee proves he's a top6 player (45+ pts on a regular basis), he's still a 3rd liner who can be moved to the 2nd line in case we need it.

Again, Plekanec is the most valuable piece in that deal considering he's the only one who proved he can be a top6 talent in the NHL in that deal. CDH is a good #3, but I wouldn't trade a 50-60pts #2C with an elite 2way game for a good #3.

 

[CodeE]

Why would we be anxious to get rid of a 2 year contract? We don't need that cap space int he next 2 years anyways.

Until Lee proves he's a top6 player (45+ pts on a regular basis), he's still a 3rd liner who can be moved to the 2nd line in case we need it.

Again, Plekanec is the most valuable piece in that deal considering he's the only one who proved he can be a top6 talent in the NHL in that deal. CDH is a good #3, but I wouldn't trade a 50-60pts #2C with an elite 2way game for a good #3.

Except it's extremely faulty logic when you argue that established is always more valuable than unproven.

Mikhail Sergachev hasn't proven he can make it to the NHL but Johnny Boychuk has established himself as a top 4 defenseman with a strong 2way game. Does Boychuk have higher value until Sergachev can prove he's capable of skating top-4 NHL minutes?

Come October, DeHaan will be 25, Lee will be 26, and Plekanec will be 34. Both CDH and Lee's cap hits (3.75M for Lee, 1.96M for CDH) combined are less than Plekanec's $6M. No brainer who I'd rather have an an Isles fan - the younger, cheaper, more durable duo. It's not like Plekanec is putting up Joe Thornton numbers.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

thats a pretty terrible trade for the Islanders