Is the NA3HL and / or the NA3EHL just a gimmick?

[mattkaminski15]

The whole league is based around selling you on development and being affiliated with NAHL teams. So, i decided to check out the hockey.

My local team is the Chicago Bulldogs, and i went to see a couple games. One vs the Wisconsin Whalers, and one vs the West Michigan Wolves.

When i went to see the game vs the Whalers i could tell right away the hockey is, at best, comparable to u16 AAA. At least it was out of the bulldogs. The Whalers played a much better, and more.. Clean, style of hockey. Where as the bulldogs seemed to let their few talented players score while the rest of the team goons it up. (not saying this is how u16 is, i was just comparing the speed and ability).

Which brings me to the game vs thewolves. The hockey from the wolves was actually pleasant to watch. I already expected them to beat the bulldogs, but they killed them. The speed and ability of the wolves looked better than what isaw from the Madison Capitols AAA u18 team in their naphl tournament recently.

So if there are teams that play junior hockey well, and teams that can't play at all how good could this league actually be?

IMO, it's all a matter of what team you play for.

 

[doncherrysgrill]

NA3HL is good hockey, NA3E on the other hand...

NA3 is closer to the USPHL Elite overall. Definitely the 2nd and 3rd best Tier III leagues in the country (USPHL Premier is hands-down on top and not even close).

NA3E is a takeover of the NSHL, a Junior B league. It's not bad hockey by any means, but you won't see the player advancement you will out of Elite, NA3, EHL, or even WSHL. Closer to the MnJHL or MetJHL.


NAHL is definitely a physical league..some goonery is not exactly out of the question. NA3 is a developmental league for sure, but some guys are under the impression that if they goon it up it's a quicker path to the NA.

 

[jliebs]

starting to think USPHL is closer to BCHL than to NAHL. It is much more of a skill league than i was expecting.

 

[BigDreamer]

From watching many junior games in the New England area this is how I would rank the leagues:
1. USPHL Premier
2. EHL
3. NA3EHL
4. USPHL Elite

 

[Tom Morris]

In the NA3HL Frontier division. There is 4 teams at the top of the standings that could all cocievably win the division. Ever since 2006 when it was Nor pac and then in 2011 when it became theAWHL - The Helena Bighorns have not only won every year but they dominated - this year it is a little more exciting for us fans as there are 4 teams in the hunt and it makes me more excited to go watch games and to keep up with the league!!

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

The NA3HL is simply a league for those that have aged out of U18. North America Prospects League at the U16 level had more players tendered to the NAHL than the NA3HL did.
My hockey rankings has the tier 3 teams ranked and the top team from the NA3HL is ranked 20th. (The leagues don't mix as far as play but it at least has a mathematical approach to their method) Not sure how the NA3 does at tier 3 nationals but that would be a good judge as well.

Last year the North Iowa Bulls were beat by Shattuck Prep team 6-2 and then beat Shattuck 6-5. Keep in mind North Iowa was at the top of the standings all year in the NA3HL and have 20 and 19 year olds. Shattuck prep is all 17 and under.

IMO NA3HL is simply a place for kids to play more hockey past graduating high school. The teams are filled with players who are 19 and 20 years old still paying to play hockey.


http://www.myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2014&a=5&v=1803

 

[mattkaminski15]

The NA3HL is simply a league for those that have aged out of U18. North America Prospects League at the U16 level had more players tendered to the NAHL than the NA3HL did.
My hockey rankings has the tier 3 teams ranked and the top team from the NA3HL is ranked 20th. (The leagues don't mix as far as play but it at least has a mathematical approach to their method) Not sure how the NA3 does at tier 3 nationals but that would be a good judge as well.

Last year the North Iowa Bulls were beat by Shattuck Prep team 6-2 and then beat Shattuck 6-5. Keep in mind North Iowa was at the top of the standings all year in the NA3HL and have 20 and 19 year olds. Shattuck prep is all 17 and under.

IMO NA3HL is simply a place for kids to play more hockey past graduating high school. The teams are filled with players who are 19 and 20 years old still paying to play hockey.


http://www.myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2014&a=5&v=1803

You're not buying the affiliation thing either, are you? The problem i have is that they spend so much time on marketing the league as developmental junior hockey, when aaa teams are having no problem beating them..

Not to mention the crazy price of playing in the league..

 

[sbkbghockey]

From watching many junior games in the New England area this is how I would rank the leagues:
1. USPHL Premier
2. EHL
3. NA3EHL
4. USPHL Elite

I agree with that ranking. I was not surprised that the NSHL decided to leave the AAU's United Hockey Union (UHU). The NSHL has carved out a nice niche of independent hockey in NE. The NSHL has produced a growing number of NCAA DIII talent as its membership stabilized with some well run junior programs.

I was surprised that it decided to join the NAHL umbrella since it was successful as an independent league. Also by moving under USA Hockey, NSHL teams will have reduced imports on rosters next season.

Overall, the NSHL, or now NA3EHL, is not a gimmick and is a legit league for moving kids to college hockey. Possibly better than the NA3HL since that league keeps expanding and has become watered down with many horrible teams not sending any kids to college hockey.

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

You're not buying the affiliation thing either, are you? The problem i have is that they spend so much time on marketing the league as developmental junior hockey, when aaa teams are having no problem beating them..

Not to mention the crazy price of playing in the league..

The NA3HL is filling a need that is out there which is to allow players who have aged out of U18 to continue playing hockey at a competitive level. I do not know anything about the eastern expansion of the NA3 so can't speak to that but as far as the NA3HL, their success on moving players to the NAHL is not there. Their affiliation is just in name.

Lets face it, a kid who is a year or two from aging out of Jr's and hasn't received a nibble from a NAHL team, how serious is he going to be the last year or two that mom and dad are paying for his hockey? Is that the best situation for a younger player (96 or 97) to be in when the leadership and veterans of their team are getting ready to face reality as far as their hockey career is concerned? The NA3HL is in a tough situation. Older players will win games but younger players are more likely to be moved on to the next level. The NA3HL is better off setting some limits on how many older players they have.

 

[jliebs]

The NA3HL is filling a need that is out there which is to allow players who have aged out of U18 to continue playing hockey at a competitive level. I do not know anything about the eastern expansion of the NA3 so can't speak to that but as far as the NA3HL, their success on moving players to the NAHL is not there. Their affiliation is just in name.

Lets face it, a kid who is a year or two from aging out of Jr's and hasn't received a nibble from a NAHL team, how serious is he going to be the last year or two that mom and dad are paying for his hockey? Is that the best situation for a younger player (96 or 97) to be in when the leadership and veterans of their team are getting ready to face reality as far as their hockey career is concerned? The NA3HL is in a tough situation. Older players will win games but younger players are more likely to be moved on to the next level. The NA3HL is better off setting some limits on how many older players they have.

Let's face it USPHL is a WAY stronger league and is totally full of 19 and 20 year olds trying to get that college situation. And a good % of them will get it. So i don't know why you are putting down those kids who are out there still trying. I have certainly seen many 19 and 20 year olds get commitments. And real commitments at that, where they will 100% play and immeadiately contribute to the college team.
I would even argue that these older kids are in fact much more reliable prospects for colleges.

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

Let's face it USPHL is a WAY stronger league and is totally full of 19 and 20 year olds trying to get that college situation. And a good % of them will get it. So i don't know why you are putting down those kids who are out there still trying. I have certainly seen many 19 and 20 year olds get commitments. And real commitments at that, where they will 100% play and immeadiately contribute to the college team.
I would even argue that these older kids are in fact much more reliable prospects for colleges.

My post was towards the NA3HL players who are in their last year or second to last year of eligibility. (I even mention the league multiple times in the posts and the thread is not asking about USPHL) I cannot speak to the better leagues.

The % of players in the NA3HL who are in their last or second to last year of NA3HL eligibility who have not had a sniff by any D3 teams is extremely high. Go home page by home page through the NA3HL teams and look at the college commitment pages. There are quite a few teams with 0 to 1 commitments from last years crop of players.

My only point is that there are better tier 3 leagues if D3 is what you are seeking.

 

[jliebs]

my bad i guess. Thought you were directing comments to 19 and 20 year olds playing tier 3 in general. I would go further and say at least as it relates to USPHL the majority of commitments i believe have been D1 not D3 and of the D3 many have been to the top academic schools in the NESCAC which in many opinions is a much better situation for a kids future than many D1 opportunities.

In any respect my original comment was comparing USPHL to the BCHL as a fairer
comparison than the NAHL . As it is true the USPHL has developed into a skill league .

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

my bad i guess. Thought you were directing comments to 19 and 20 year olds playing tier 3 in general. I would go further and say at least as it relates to USPHL the majority of commitments i believe have been D1 not D3 and of the D3 many have been to the top academic schools in the NESCAC which in many opinions is a much better situation for a kids future than many D1 opportunities.

In any respect my original comment was comparing USPHL to the BCHL as a fairer
comparison than the NAHL . As it is true the USPHL has developed into a skill league .

I see that tier 3 in the eastern US has its fair share of D1 commits. If you talked with anyone in Michigan, Minnesota, etc. and brought up tier 3 hockey, most would be surprised that there are D1 commits from the eastern tier 3 leagues because tier 3 in the Midwest is not strong.

Why do you think there is this big division between tier 3 in the Midwest and tier 3 on the east coast?

also

Are the players from the USPHL who are playing tier 3 and have committed D1 turning down USHL/NAHL/BCHL offers?

 

[herbst20]

also

Are the players from the USPHL who are playing tier 3 and have committed D1 turning down USHL/NAHL/BCHL offers?

I would say this is the instantace for a handful of players at least from a USHL standpoint.

Players such as Beau Starrett, Charlie Kelleher, Vesey are a couple off the top of my head that have chosen the USPHL route when the USHL was an option.

 

[doncherrysgrill]

Ryan Donato who plays for South Shore has had the chance to play in the USHL, was a 2nd round pick of the Boston Bruins, and chose the USPHL. Starrett and Vesey are the other two notable draft picks who chose the USPHL route. James Mazza from PAL spent his 18-year-old season with Youngstown USHL..I'm not sure about the details but he had a pretty good season there as a younger player and I can't imagine that he couldn't play in the USHL now.

I have my own beefs with MyHockeyRankings, I personally think their rankings of Tier III are terrible, but it definitely shows where the NA3 is.

After the USHL I'd put it as follows:

USPHL Premier (1) - NAHL (2) - What should be Tier II

EHL (3) - NA3HL(4) -USPHL Elite (5) - Tier III Junior A

USPHL Empire (6) - NA3EHL (7) - MetJHL (8) - Tier III Junior B

Like Jliebs said, Premier is almost purely a skill league. I think the level of prospects you're getting at the NAHL and Premier are about the same, but the way the leagues play couldn't be more different. You'll find some bottom-6 type players who need that NCAA seasoning in the NAHL, whereas you'll find some more talent guys that need to spend some time growing into their bodies in college in the Premier. There's obviously some crossover, but that's the general look and feel of each of these leagues.

It's also different types of players in all of those leagues. At Empire and 3E, you get mostly older players who are looking to play some more competitive hockey before moving on to DIII or ACHA. Metro league is a bit younger, at least in the teams I've seen, a lot more 96s and 97s than your average Empire/3E team.

 

[Champion39]

Decided to poke my head in here…

If you’re looking fora good Tier III Junior A, the NA3HL is probably the only good league that won’t have teams fold overnight (Like Nor-Pac, WSHL, Etc.)

 

[3rd Guy High]

Ryan Donato who plays for South Shore has had the chance to play in the USHL, was a 2nd round pick of the Boston Bruins, and chose the USPHL. Starrett and Vesey are the other two notable draft picks who chose the USPHL route. James Mazza from PAL spent his 18-year-old season with Youngstown USHL..I'm not sure about the details but he had a pretty good season there as a younger player and I can't imagine that he couldn't play in the USHL now.

I have my own beefs with MyHockeyRankings, I personally think their rankings of Tier III are terrible, but it definitely shows where the NA3 is.

After the USHL I'd put it as follows:

USPHL Premier (1) - NAHL (2) - What should be Tier II

EHL (3) - NA3HL(4) -USPHL Elite (5) - Tier III Junior A

USPHL Empire (6) - NA3EHL (7) - MetJHL (8) - Tier III Junior B

Like Jliebs said, Premier is almost purely a skill league. I think the level of prospects you're getting at the NAHL and Premier are about the same, but the way the leagues play couldn't be more different. You'll find some bottom-6 type players who need that NCAA seasoning in the NAHL, whereas you'll find some more talent guys that need to spend some time growing into their bodies in college in the Premier. There's obviously some crossover, but that's the general look and feel of each of these leagues.

It's also different types of players in all of those leagues. At Empire and 3E, you get mostly older players who are looking to play some more competitive hockey before moving on to DIII or ACHA. Metro league is a bit younger, at least in the teams I've seen, a lot more 96s and 97s than your average Empire/3E team.

We had this exact discussion last year in the USPHL 13-14 thread. A few of us came to the conclusion that theres probably at the very least 60 players in the USPHL that could be playing in the USHL but arent for multiple reasons. Whether that's wanting to go to an eastern school, getting an under-the-table deal, or just being a late bloomer and not having the political connections to enter the USHL at 18, 19 or 20 years old, there are a lot of players in the Premier league that could play at the USHL level.

We also agreed for the most part that the Premier league was much stronger from top to bottom than the NAHL (mostly due to the Premier having 9, now 11 teams, vs the NAHL's 28.)

 

[jliebs]

i generally agree with all. Its really too bad USPHL has to go with the tuition model.
I think it is the only reason it remains Tier3 in name only. Also it's every bit as strong as BCHL and i agree definitely stronger overall than NAHL

 

[MrWilson*]

NAHL is stepping up - Junior Hockey News
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Published: Wednesday, 20 Mar 2013
By: Randy Russon

He is a National Hockey League scout who wears more than one Stanley Cup ring. His word is trusted and respected and he doesn't offer his opinions unless he is asked. And when asked to compare the caliber and level of play between the Tier 1, United States Hockey League and the Tier 2, North American Hockey League, he was frank and to the point.

The NHL scout (who for obvious reasons of professional confidentiality wants to remain anonymous) offered these specific responses when asked about NAHL v. USHL:

* The "vast majority" of 19-and-20-year old, first-and-second-line players in the NAHL would also be first-and-second-line players in the USHL.

* Overall, the level of goaltending in the NAHL is "definitely better" than in the USHL.

* If not for the fact that USA Hockey's National Team Development Program was a member of the USHL, NHL scouts would attend NAHL games with the same frequency.

* A player does not have to leave the NAHL for the USHL in order to improve his chances of getting a Division 1, National Collegiate Athletic Association commitment. Proof is the swelling number of NAHL players who have received Division 1 commitments within the past couple of seasons.

* The number of players who play in the NAHL who will get drafted by, or sign with, NHL teams, will continue to rise.

* The level of coaching in the NAHL is "definitely on par" with the USHL.

* The fact that the USHL is Tier 1 and the NAHL is Tier 2 is "little more than an illogical, semantic fixation of USA Hockey."

* The scout's personal list of current NAHL players who he considers to be future NHL prospects totals 30 and includes six goalies, 12 defencemen and 12 forwards.

* The scout's personal list of current USHL players (excluding those who play for the NTDP) who he considers to be future NHL prospects totals 28 and includes four goalies, 10 defencemen and 14 forwards.

Seems less biased than some opinions on here...

 

[bigdog16]

Agree with that "NHL Scout" to some degree, but not everything. There is so much more skill in the USHL that it's really not even close. No team in the NAHL could come within 3 goals of the top 4 teams in the USHL. Worst team in USHL vs best team in NAHL? Sure it'd be a toss up. But who is this guy to start tossing out these statistics. I'll trust all the div 1 schools who are giving these USHL players many more scholarships compared to the NAHL. In all honesty I would put the USPHL as closer in talent to the USHL than the NAHL is. It's hard to excel in the NA, its a grinder league, there isn't very many skill guys. And those who were skill guys in the NAHL (and were excelling) bumped up to the USHL.

 

[doncherrysgrill]

I think that article holds absolutely 0 weight today. ESPECIALLY with the emergence of the USPHL. NAHL talent is jumping ship for the USPHL...hell USHL talent is leaving for the USPHL.

It's clear that the USHL is the best league. There's a reason that, outside of the NTDP, 15 USHL players were selected in the draft last year and just one was selected out of the NAHL. BTW-three selected from USPHL.

Don't know if I'd quite put the USPHL at the level of the BCHL, but it's not far off.

 

[jliebs]

i wont go as far as to say players a leaving USHL for USPHL .in the few instances where players where given a choice and chose USPHL there are other circumstances at work and other considerations like playing time and where they would best be promoted. Thats vastly different than a player doing well in the USHL and leaving to play USPHL, that as far as i know has not happened.

In terms of the BCHL i have to say IMHO the USPHL is a superior league. It is both high skilled yet more physcial than BCHL. However, the tuition model is holding it back.

 

[maineman]

we are getting a team from the NA3EHL here in Lewiston Maine next season, as they will be playing a couple games in February and having the Championship series here also. the New Hampshire Fighting Spirit are soon to be the Lewiston / Auburn Fighting Spirit (L A). It seems to be a nice little league, and USA Hockey is most likely going to sanction this league coming in January (?). Granted it is no QMJHL like we had, but man, it will be hockey. I read up on the league, boy, the following is not too good, there's a team 27-0 and they average around 50 spectators. Christ if we can gather a couple hundred per game, we'll be the cat's meow in the league. Time will tell.

 

[rokkinman139]

we are getting a team from the NA3EHL here in Lewiston Maine next season, as they will be playing a couple games in February and having the Championship series here also. the New Hampshire Fighting Spirit are soon to be the Lewiston / Auburn Fighting Spirit (L A). It seems to be a nice little league, and USA Hockey is most likely going to sanction this league coming in January (?). Granted it is no QMJHL like we had, but man, it will be hockey. I read up on the league, boy, the following is not too good, there's a team 27-0 and they average around 50 spectators. Christ if we can gather a couple hundred per game, we'll be the cat's meow in the league. Time will tell.

It is a good league and the talent level from top to bottom is pretty consistent. There was a select group of kids that were selected by the league to participate in the NA3 showcase in Blaine, MN. They beat the first place North Iowa Bulls in the first game and played the second place Granite City Lumberjacks to a tight 4-2 game with an empty netter. They had a let down game second day, losing to Metro 7-0 however.

Of course, there are good teams (27-0) and the bad teams (I don't think they've won a game) but anything can happen in the league. There is a team that pushed the undefeated team to a shootout and had to squeak a nail biter of a game out against the last place team.

The Spirit have had a good team for a long time so, like you said, it's not going to be the Q but it will be some decent hockey.

 

[maineman]

well, the N.H. Fighting Spirit came to Lewiston, and played their two games against Lockport Express (NY) split, lost the first game 3-2 won the second 5-2. Have to say it was pretty good hockey, (based on not having a team here for three years) it felt good watching live hockey again.The team was a little spooked on Friday night, plating in front of 850 fans (which are used to approx. 50 fans) and settled down on Sunday with about 450 fans. As the owner spoke to the media, he was stating that this fall as the team moves here to it's new venue (going from a 600 seat rink to a 3,700 seat arena), ther is talk along with a NA3EHL team, they are in talks with the ECHL in bringing in a D-1 tier team as well using the Spirit as a feeder system.
So in saying, if everything falls into place, we might go from nothing for three years, to TWO teams in the same season. that would be sweet. We will be the L-A (Lewiston, Auburn) Fighting Spirit and I guess we wait and see who, and /or which team is re-locating from the ECHL.