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is the 'grinder' a dying breed in the NHL?

Elvs

Elvs

Registered User
Jul 3, 2006
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Something that I always liked about hockey is how very different type of players could make it to the big league. It's pretty obvious that the 'enforcer' role has pretty much died out. While we still see a fair amount of fights in the NHL, there's only a couple of players still in the league that most people would label 'enforcers'.

Now, I don't want this thread to be about fighting, but about 'grinders'. Personally I don't think this role will ever completely die out. But I think we are already seeing less of them compared to 10 years ago.

How many forwards on your favourite team would label as 'grinders'? (Please include potential call ups as well).

On the Ducks, Chris Wagner is the only player I'd give that title. Derek Grant too if he makes the team. From the minors Sam Carrick and Corey Tropp are potential call ups.

I guess Andrew Cogliano could be described as a modern day grinder, though. He's not super physical, but still great on the forecheck. Last season Nate Thompson would have been a bona fide grinder.
 
Melker Karlsson is probably the only pure grinder in the lineup locked into the lineup but also have Joel Ward who might get pushed out and Ryan Carpenter who's looking to get a spot on the roster.
 
I mean, teams definitely still have grinders but the game has evolved. Everyone can play. Everyone can chip in. Look at the Penguins. Nearly everyone on that offense besides Phil and Geno is a grinder to some extent, they just can all play hockey. Back to back champs. This is a large reason I believe guys like Sid are as good as anyone from previous generations as well; there is so much parity, not just between teams but from lines 1-4. Everyone can skate. Many fourth liners handle the puck better than non-star 1st liners from the 80s did. There is no time or space on the ice, even with the removal of all the hooking and holding because everyone gets around so quickly. Factor in that the game is more coached than ever and systems smother offense. It's no wonder no one will ever score 150 again, but it isn't because players have gotten less talented.
 
Wait, what?!?

The entire league is filled with "grinders". Every team has maybe 3 really skilled players, obviously some have more than others, and the rest just play the game against the boards, i.e. grind.

The creativity has been coached out of the game in favor of the grind game.

Just because a player is speedy or small doesn't mean he still isn't a glorified grinder. For every Gaudreau there are ten Shaw, Ward, Beagle, etc. type players.
 
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When people say that there's no place for grinders in the game, do they just mean the Tanner Glass's and Zac Rinaldo's of the world? Or do they mean that guys like Jim Slater and Nate Thompson never should have had an NHL career? What about a selke finalist like Samuel Pahlsson? Or Kris Draper? Or John Madden? Unless you'd label any of them '2-way forward'.


Sam Spade said:
Wait, what?!?

The entire league is filled "grinders". Every team has maybe 3 really skilled players, obviously some have more than others, and the rest just play the game against the boards, i.e. grind.

The creativity has been coached out of the game in favor of the grind game.
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That's on the coaches and systems, not on the players imo. The league is a copy cat league. When a skilled team wins, teams wanna add skill and speed. When a tougher teams wins, teams wanna add toughness and size.
 
I don't think it's dying but I think we're getting a different perspective on what's actually effective.

Hitting to make plays on the puck is effective. I would include Lewis, Shore, Fast, Martin, Komarov, post-prime Kunitz, Dubinsky. These are effective players.

Running around hitting things for no reason has zero positive effect on the game. Callahan, Wilson, Brouwer, Glass, Boone Jenner tbh, although I'll catch heat for that one.
 
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I think there's definitely some guys that are grinders (because most of the players making it to the NHL do grind) but aren't label as such. For example Lehkonen is a "grinder" but I'd labeled him as a sniper/two-way player.

Players who have the label 'grinder' as their main label are becoming rare. I think MTL has Gallagher, Shaw, at some extent Martinsen but not really and Carr in the minors.
 
Deam78 said:
Koivu? Really? I don't really see him that way I'm just curious to have your take?
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He doesn't force the issue enough to be considered a power forward... he's not skilled enough in his skating/passing/shooting to be called a skilled player...

He does a lot of things well... nothing GREAT other than being GREAT at defense... but that's a positional thing and knowing how to use his size defense-wise... but his overall style is a grinding style.

Nino and Coyle both use their size enough to be called power forwards... Mikko only REALLY uses his size on the defensive end.
 
TaLoN said:
He doesn't force the issue enough to be considered a power forward... he's not skilled enough in his skating/passing/shooting to be called a skilled player...

He does a lot of things well... nothing GREAT other than being GREAT at defense... but that's a positional thing and knowing how to use his size defense-wise... but his overall style is a grinding style.

Nino and Coyle both use their size enough to be called power forwards... Mikko only REALLY uses his size on the defensive end.
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I see him as a two-way/playmaker player. For me a grinder is a guy that will get his nose dirty and like be in your face, running. I think it's hard for Cs to be grinders, it's mostly wingers. But i do get your point. Btw, love Koivu.
 
Deam78 said:
I see him as a two-way/playmaker player. For me a grinder is a guy that will get his nose dirty and like be in your face, running. I think it's hard for Cs to be grinders, it's mostly wingers. But i do get your point. Btw, love Koivu.
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Slow grinders can't always be in your face all the time like that... but I think the centers that are known for defense are usually of a grinding type of player.

Wild have always had grinder Centers over the years, they had Wes Walz for a long time, and recently also had Haula - both were more prototypical in the face energy types, where as they've also had slower players as well... such as Brodziak... he was never in your face, but he was ABSOLUTELY a grinder.

Koivu just has a better head for the game and is a bit better on the skill end than someone like Brodziak was, so he gets credit for being a two-way player. Parise is a two way player, has scored 30+ goals several times over the years, but he's still absolutely a grinder in style. Just a more successful grinder than most, as is Koivu.

I don't think it's a dying breed at all though, I think some aren't recognizing some of the better grinders AS grinders.
 
Grinders aren't dying, they have just changed. It's no longer acceptable to not be a strong skater and be able to make safe passes. The big, slow, physical guys are gone or going, and being replaced by quick guys who were scorers at lower levels but can't cut it in the NHL as anything but a bottom 6 guy, so they have adapted their game to stick on a roster. These players never used to make the league at all, but the game has changed and now they are.
 
TaLoN said:
Slow grinders can't always be in your face all the time like that... but I think the centers that are known for defense are usually of a grinding type of player.

Wild have always had grinder Centers over the years, they had Wes Walz for a long time, and recently also had Haula - both were more prototypical in the face energy types, where as they've also had slower players as well... such as Brodziak... he was never in your face, but he was ABSOLUTELY a grinder.

Koivu just has a better head for the game and is a bit better on the skill end than someone like Brodziak was, so he gets credit for being a two-way player. Parise is a two way player, has scored 30+ goals several times over the years, but he's still absolutely a grinder in style. Just a more successful grinder than most, as is Koivu.

I don't think it's a dying breed at all though, I think some aren't recognizing some of the better grinders AS grinders.
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That's a fair assessment. I totally get your point as I see the same for Parise. I just never thought of Koivu like that, but I probably haven't watch enough game of him, that's why I asked you.
 
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Deam78 said:
That's a fair assessment. I totally get your point as I see the same for Parise. I just never thought of Koivu like that, but I probably haven't watch enough game of him, that's why I asked you.
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Koivu used to have a beast mode in his prime... if an opponent made him angry, he'd suddenly flip a switch and go from Koivu the really good grinder to Koivu the really good and intimidating power forward... that's when we'd suddenly see Koivu "Kronwall" someone like Kronwall and win games doing it.
 
Sam Spade said:
They are faster, they aren't more skilled.
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I would say the more successful ones may not always be faster, but they are much smarter players these days. Hockey sense can turn an avg player into a great player. Parise had a 90pt season and he plays a prototypical grinder style. Koivu - it's never been about speed or skill, it's always been about smart positioning and knowing where everyone is going to go and why. Granlund has that same high level of hockey sense, but his vision and passing skills are amazing... something Koivu hasn't had... Koivu has had to blue collar his way through it.
 
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