Is Ovechkin the 5th best player of all time?

[authentic]

4 years of Ovi’s prime was the most exciting and entertaining hockey performance by single player I have seen, Crosby or McDavid are phenomenal but Ovi in his prime was on higher level, I don’t know were he should be ranked on all-time scale, these rankings are extremely subjective, I just know that watching Ovi in 2007-2010 was the most fun I ever had from watching NHL game

Yeah I would say he was probably the most entertaining player at his peak, especially if you take his personality off the ice into account, always giving funny answers and acting goofy instead of your typical boring responses and showing no emotion or excitement.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Well he’s coming up on 900 goals in the lowest scoring era.

While playing for one of the best regular season.

And he’s barely plus 50.

How do you even attempt to explain that without him being shit at defense?

Which by the way, his own coach Bruce Boudreau agrees.

That’s not the worst
Still waiting for an explanation as the worst you’ve ever seen, or maybe you haven’t seen much hockey.
Sounds more like an OV hater since your a Pens fan.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Well he’s coming up on 900 goals in the lowest scoring era.

While playing for one of the best regular season teams.

And he’s barely plus 50.

How do you even attempt to explain that without him being shit at defense?

Which by the way, his own coach Bruce Boudreau agrees.

Sidney Crosby's goals against per game and per minute are pretty much the same as Ovechkin's for most of their careers. Actually Sid's are worse in the playoffs.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Sidney Crosby's goals against per game and per minute are pretty much the same as Ovechkin's for most of their careers. Actually Sid's are worse in the playoffs.

Ruh oh facts.

 

[kevsh]

Of course the comparisons to Crosby are expected, and stats, stats and more stats.

I'll go with a purely hypothetical that anyone honest knows the answer to: If you took an anonymous (or not) survey of every NHL GM of the past 15-20 years and ask if they'd rather have had Sid or Ovi on their team, take the total number of GMs minus the number of GMs Washington has had in that time period and that's the number that would pick Crosby. Maybe even one or two of them, considering it's anonymous.

So at the very least, if you have Ovi in the top 5 then Sid is in the top 4. And that means one of Howe, Lemieux, Gretzky or Orr get bumped out. And that's just a hard no.

Top 10? Sure, gets my vote. And unless he really, really finishes his career strong and Sid's game goes off a cliff right now, today, highly unlikely Ovechkin tops him. And so far, about 78% of the people in this poll agree.

 

[winnipegger]

Bure, Panarin, Malkin, Kucherov and Kaprizov have all scored at a higher rate than Ovechkin.

So he's not even the 5th best Russian NHLer of all time, not to mention all the Soviet players who have never stepped foot on NHL ice.

This entire thread only makes sense if you add the 5th best goal scorer as a qualifier.

We're not talking about rate. Even mentioning Panarin in the same breath as ovi is blasphemous. Ovechkin had a better peak than any of those players and let me know how many will still be elite at their position at 39 years old.

 

[Randyne]

#2

 

[Albatros]

We're not talking about rate. Even mentioning Panarin in the same breath as ovi is blasphemous. Ovechkin had a better peak than any of those players and let me know how many will still be elite at their position at 39 years old.

Peak scoring seasons being:

Kucherov 44+100=144
Panarin 49+71=120
Malkin 35+78=113
Ovechkin 65+47=112
Bure 60+50=110
Kaprizov 47+61=108

One can argue about context and whatnot, but nonetheless it's far from clear that Ovechkin comes out on top (or even top 3).

 

[CokenoPepsi]

If Ovechkin actually finishes this season with 50+ goals and over 100 points things get interesting.

If he somehow someway finishes with 1000 goals?

 

[Machinehead]

With the goals record (probably), I think there's a worthwhile case that he's had the 5th best career of all-time.

 

[Cats2TheCup]

There will be people in this thread that swear he’s unseating one of the Top 4 with a pretty decent argument to back it up. There will be people in this thread that have him outside the Top 15 with pretty decent argument to back it up.

But one thing is for sure. History will look more and more kindly upon Ovi as the years go on. He’ll finish with the 2nd or 3rd biggest trophy case, a slew of all time records, and will be plastered over NHL media for decades (if not longer) atop every list of any current player doing anything notable with respect to putting the puck into the net.

His final goal tally will be one of the 2 immortal numbers in hockey. That kind of legacy only gains power over time.

The best take in this entire thread

 

[um]

Peak scoring seasons being:

Kucherov 44+100=144
Panarin 49+71=120
Malkin 35+78=113
Ovechkin 65+47=112
Bure 60+50=110
Kaprizov 47+61=108

One can argue about context and whatnot, but nonetheless it's far from clear that Ovechkin comes out on top (or even top 3).

No it's pretty clear.

Only Kucherov has a chance, but he's still got a lot of catching up to do. One MVP and two Ross's ain't gonna cut it.

 

[moropanov]

If comparing Pure hockey ability skills and level as a player i think there's no question that Ovy's worse player/has been worse on average through his career than players like Teemu Hartikainen or Nikita Gusev Victor Tikhonov Petri Kontiola Linus Omark etc typic players on average. But ofc he has feats/career achievements.. so its Hard to compare. Maybe reasonably he would be in top 100_200 players 2000's until nowadays if comparing merits and ability overall compared. But in my opinion if rating is done on based on pure ability as a player i would say top 2000_5000. Player. Hard to say where he would fall around those categories but somewhere between those.

 

[joestevens29]

Not ahead of Crosby and I love ovechkins game

4 years of Ovi’s prime was the most exciting and entertaining hockey performance by single player I have seen, Crosby or McDavid are phenomenal but Ovi in his prime was on higher level, I don’t know were he should be ranked on all-time scale, these rankings are extremely subjective, I just know that watching Ovi in 2007-2010 was the most fun I ever had from watching NHL game

Lol no but I get it you can’t afford coffee to watch mcdavid

 

[thadd]

Wayne
Howe
Lemiuex
Crosby
Borque
Lidstrom
Brodeaur
Hasek
Roy
Bossy
Pronger
Messier
Yzerman
Sakic
Bergeron
Pocket Rocket
Orr
P. Esposito

I take all of those players over Ovechkin just off the top of my head.

Now if you want to ask me where he ranks in terms of best goal scorers all time?

I take Bossy over him for sure. You guys can debate over who else deserves to be ranked in front of Ovechkin in terms of best goal scorer of all time.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Wayne
Howe
Lemiuex
Crosby
Borque
Lidstrom
Brodeaur
Hasek
Roy
Bossy
Pronger
Messier
Yzerman
Sakic
Bergeron
Pocket Rocket
Orr
P. Esposito

I take all of those players over Ovechkin just off the top of my head.

Now if you want to ask me where he ranks in terms of best goal scorers all time?

I take Bossy over him for sure. You guys can debate over who else deserves to be ranked in front of Ovechkin in terms of best goal scorer of all time.

Mike Bossy led the NHL in goals 2 times. Ovechkin did it 9 times.

 

[thadd]

Mike Bossy led the NHL in goals 2 times. Ovechkin did it 9 times.

Sounds like you know a ton about Mike Bossy!

Wow, this is the best take I've seen on social media all week. Congrats!

 

[Video Nasty]

Wayne
Howe
Lemiuex
Crosby
Borque
Lidstrom
Brodeaur
Hasek
Roy
Bossy
Pronger
Messier
Yzerman
Sakic
Bergeron
Pocket Rocket
Orr
P. Esposito

I take all of those players over Ovechkin just off the top of my head.

Now if you want to ask me where he ranks in terms of best goal scorers all time?

I take Bossy over him for sure. You guys can debate over who else deserves to be ranked in front of Ovechkin in terms of best goal scorer of all time.

I’m enjoying the ever growing respect of Mike Bossy. Wipes the floor with Ovechkin as a complete talent.

Mike Bossy led the NHL in goals 2 times. Ovechkin did it 9 times.

Ovechkin had zero competition for the award. He’s lucky his one main threat, Stamkos, was neutered early on, because Ovechkin would likely have no more than five Rockets in that alternate timeline.

 

[Plural]

I don't think he is and I don't think there will ever be compelling enough of an argument that I'd change my mind. I would not be easily persuaded to think Crosby is top-5 and he's better than Ovechkin.

But, as time goes by Ovechkin might experience the Bobby Hull effect. His totals are upper end Hall of Fame and goal totals are insane. He has the Hart trophies and Conn Smythe. As time goes by, his resume will look very flattering and unless you dig a bit deeper and/or also remember the time he actually played, there is a chance that quite a lot of people will think of him as a top-5 all-time player or at least a strong candidate for it.

 

[Plural]

Lol no but I get it you can’t afford coffee to watch mcdavid

That's subjective but there are a lot of fans who enjoyed Ovechkin's game-style (peak) better than McDavid's.

 

[EdJovanovski]

He is the greatest of all time

 

[Midnight Judges]

Ovechkin had zero competition for the award. He’s lucky his one main threat, Stamkos, was neutered early on, because Ovechkin would likely have no more than five Rockets in that alternate timeline.

Ovechkin played in the largest talent pool era so far. Ovechkin's competition is 3x what it was for Bobby Hull, 4-5x what it was for Maurice Richard, and greater than 50% larger than it was for Mike Bossy:

Estimating the size of the NHL's talent pool (1950-2023)

There have been hundreds (and probably thousands) of posts on HOH that discuss the size of the NHL's talent pool. The data that's needed to determine the talent pool (youths actively involved in organized hockey) has never been maintained with any rigour or consistency, across countries and...

forums.hfboards.com

The scoring environment for Bossy was quite weak. His 50 goal seasons equate to about 38 goals in Ovechkin's era.

Adjusted for era, Mike Bossy has a paltry two 50 goal seasons, compared to Ovechkin, who has ten 50 goal seasons:

Mike Bossy Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Mike Bossy. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Alex Ovechkin Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Alex Ovechkin. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Additionally, Ovechkin does not have any weak rockets.

The 'times led NHL' is quite indicative of their relative prime accomplishments, and that's generously only focusing on prime and ignoring the gargantuan difference in longevity (868 goals to 573. Although adjusted goals are more indicative: 970 for Ovechkin to 461 for Bossy). In other words, Ovechkin has provided more than double the goal scoring value for his team.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Sounds like you know a ton about Mike Bossy!

Wow, this is the best take I've seen on social media all week. Congrats!

Mike Bossy led the NHL in goals per game 1 time.

Alex Ovechkin led the NHL in goals per game 9 times.

In the 15 seasons starting with Bossy's rookie year, 5 different players had goal scoring seasons higher than Bossy's highest season. (2 more players would go on to pass it the next season).

In the 15 seasons starting with Ovechkin's rookie year, 0 players had goal scoring seasons higher than Ovechkin's highest season.

Here's a bunch of data.