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Is Orr the best defenseman of all time defensively? If not - where do you rank him?

bobholly39

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Mar 10, 2013
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Obviously he's seen as the best defenseman of all time overall, and the best offensively also - but what about defense? Is he #1?

If not - who do you rank near the top, and where does Orr rank in comparison?
 
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bobholly39 said:
Obviously he's seen as the best defenseman of all time overall, and the best offensively also - but what about defense? Is he #1?

If not - who do you rank near the top, and where does Orr rank in comparison?
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He's the best player who ever lived. Period. You can take your Greztzky and your Howe and even those few Lemieux fans who think he's number one... nobody was so dominant at EVERYTHING as Orr.

...and yes, that includes Defense. The Hockey News had a list a few years back of the best offensive AND defensive defensemen of all time. Orr was number one on both lists. Rightfully so. Some people think that you need to be an invisible, non-offensive giant to be a great "defensive" defenseman (think Langway or Foote). Orr was just so athletic that he let his legs, his gap control, his positioning, his vision, his strength (man, pound for pound he was powerful), and his passing to protect an overrated Cheevers time and time again.
 
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Consider Orr was 18 when he stepped into the NHL. It was still the 06 era.

Bruins had the worst team in the league (by far). Orr was not yet flying around the rink, as he needed to establish he could play NHL defense first. Orr was a +1 on that team, best on the team. He hit, got hit, fought, scored and defended. Actual ended up 6th for the Hart with 11 votes. Yes, he could defend.

Was he the best defensive dman? Hard to say that about anyone.
 
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Probably top 10. (But maybe not.)

His puck-wielding exploits are legendary, his defensive game skilled but not ideal, though the refusal to not put every facet of his game on a pedestal is rampant.
 
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I don't think that I would have Orr among the top ten defencemen defensively all time or anything, but he was elite defensively. In an alternate reality where Orr has perfect knees, one of the things I would be most interested in seeing is if an older version of Orr would have changed focus and become the best defensive player in hockey while being just elite offensively.
 
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VanIslander said:
His puck-wielding exploits are legendary, his defensive game skilled but not ideal, though the refusal to not put every facet of his game on a pedestal is rampant.
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Again, other than some cherry-picked YouTube videos, this is based on what exactly? But I see what you're saying. The fact that you're willing to put him as a top 10 defensive defenseman of ALL-TIME (over 100 years of NHL hockey), says enough for me.
 
Well, I can see two ways of interpreting and answering this question.

1. Was he the best defensively? As in, did he "almost always" hang back, take very little risk, and prioritize not allowing the other team to score. Maybe not as much as another "purer, stay-at-home defenseman."

2. Was he the best defensively? As in, if he wanted to stop you, could he? Then yes, probably.

It's like when people ask who the best goal scorers are/were. I like to answer Gretzky and Lemieux, more because of the way I interpret Question 2. Yes, these two were balanced offensive giants who could rack up tons of assists as well, but if they both wanted to just concentrate on scoring goals, getting 100 in a season would not have been out of the question for them.
 
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He clearly wasn't the best ever defensively, at least if you value the opinions of NHL coaches.

Orr's prime is very well covered by coach's polls available on this forum. He tied for 1st in one coach's poll for "best defensive defenseman" in the NHL, and didn't place on the few others we have during his prime.

Harry Sinden preferred Bourque defensively, and there are a small handful of defensemen I've seen who I think were even better defensively than Bourque.

Still a great defensive defenseman, but not the best.
 
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From the highlights and few full games I've seen of him, I don't see how the answer isn't a resounding Yes.

He completely controlled the game from the backend and neutralized the opposition attack. Just look at the stupid Plus-Minus numbers he posted year in, year out.
 
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Hard yes.

Edit: misread the question. Best of all time defensively? Probably not, but it's extremely hard to put your finger on which defenseman would win that title. The usual suspects are the Harvey-Bourque-Lidstrom trio, but there are others in the conversation.

Orr certainly could have been the best defensively if he had been so inclined, but his overall skillset was such that it made way more sense for him to be the best all-round defenseman of all time instead.
 
Teams can't score against you when you have the puck. Point is some of Orr's offensive skills did contribute to his defensive effectiveness. While Orr wasn't the typical redwood in front of his own net, his puck handling and especially skating skills often neutralized the opposing team offensively. IMO he is well into the top 10 defensively, just did it like no one else could.
 
Pretty hard to guage this as I highly doubt too many people here can even say they saw him play. I was a kid born 71 and all I remember is Orr being the best. Going by history we all hear he was the best to. I remember Langway much more and he was a lot better then Foote however neither could skate like Orr. Orr could just straight out fly compared to anybody else and he was a bull as well not a slender player.
 
JackSlater said:
Harvey, Savard, Langway, Chelios, Stevens, Horton, Pronger, Howe, Lidstrom, Pronger just some of the defencemen with some historical relevance.
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Soooo.....both Chris and Sean Pronger?

I think in your haste to try to prove your point, you became confused. The majority of the names you list as being defensively better than Orr......is a ……..reach.
 
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JackSlater said:
Harvey, Savard, Langway, Chelios, Stevens, Horton, Pronger, Howe, Lidstrom, Pronger just some of the defencemen with some historical relevance.
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Sorry... but that list is... just wrong. You just randomly listed a bunch of H of F defensemen with little or no thought or evidence over how they compared to Orr. Why didn't you toss in Neidermayer, Salming and Guy Lapointe too?

Until your list, this was the most random thing I'd ever seen...

giphy.gif
 
To add to my previous post, here are polls from Orr's prime:

1971 NHL coach's poll: Best defensive defenseman - 3 way tie between Bobby Orr, Al Arbour, Ted Harris
March 13th, 1971 NHL Coaches Poll - Toronto Star

1974 NHL coach's poll: Best defensive defenseman: Bill White. Runners up: Borje Salming, Jacques Laperriere, Rod Seiling, Dave Burrows
March 23rd, 1974 NHL Coaches Poll - Toronto Star

1976 NHL coach's poll: Best Defensive Defenceman - Larry Robinson. Runners up: Bill White, Denis Potvin, Dave Burrows, Terry Harper
Yes, Orr didn't play a full season in 1975-76, but that didn't stop coaches from voting him as the best skater and high in other categories.
February 21st, 1976 NHL Coaches Poll - Toronto Star

That's a fairly weak showing from "the best defensive defenseman of all time"
 
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DannyGallivan said:
Sorry... but that list is... just wrong. You just randomly listed a bunch of H of F defensemen with little or no thought or evidence over how they compared to Orr. Why didn't you toss in Neidermayer, Salming and Guy Lapointe too?

Until your list, this was the most random thing I'd ever seen...

giphy.gif
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What evidence are you looking for? And are you familiar with the players that I listed? I'm confused given that you then listed players worse defensively than everyone that I listed. You're the one supporting the minority claim and yet you act as if you're not.
 
JackSlater said:
What evidence are you looking for? And are you familiar with the players that I listed? I'm confused given that you then listed players worse defensively than everyone that I listed. You're the one supporting the minority claim and yet you act as if you're not.
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Sorry, but after reading your list either you didn't take my question very seriously or hockey history just ain't your bag. That's fine, if that's the case. But if tried passing that list off to the posters during the recent "Top 120 Players of All Time" project we did a few months back, you would have been eaten alive by much more knowledgeable hockey historians than myself.
 
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