Is McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon the new Big Three?

[zeke]

but why? if Matthews is as good as people think, he should be riding that horse

babcock is a strange man.

last year is the first year he gave Morgan Rielly significant PP ice time at all.

he played both marner and nylander on the 4th line last year.

game 3 this is season is the first time he gave kapanen a shift above the 4th line in his career. he still hasn't given him one PP shift in his career.

meanwhile, guys like zach hyman and leo komarov have often led the team in ice time.

 

[zeke]

Thanks for clarifying. I thought ‘you guys’ might have been the Leaf homers trying to use a cherry picked stat like minutes played or a 7 game sample size to argue that Matthews is on the same level as a generational player like McDavid. Of course two Art Ross trophies in his teens is probably not all that big a deal just because only two other generational players did it.

yeah those homer leaf fans are looking really, really bad right now.

while those guys who called matthews the most overrated player in hockey and the leafs the most overrated team in hockey are looking really good.

 

[BAM]

Thanks for clarifying. I thought ‘you guys’ might have been the Leaf homers trying to use a cherry picked stat like minutes played or a 7 game sample size to argue that Matthews is on the same level as a generational player like McDavid. Of course two Art Ross trophies in his teens is probably not all that big a deal just because only two other generational players did it.

But you'll use a 7 game playoff sample size to knock Matthews lmao

 

[tucker3434]

Realistically, there is no big 3. It’s mcdavid by himself up there. Matthews and MacKinnon could lock down that next tier down, but there’s a lot of competition.

McDavid is the guy that’ll be the favorite to win all the major awards for the foreseeable future. He won’t always win, but it’ll take statistical anomalies from the guys that do. That tells you what you need to know.

 

[Saltcreek]

This Year Plus Last Year, PPG

1. McDavid (22): 1.36 ----- ES 1.03 (17:35), PP .28 (3:00)
2. MacKinnon (23): 1.31 -- ES .90 (16:04), PP .40 (3:41)
3. Marchand (30): 1.30 --- ES .86 (14:46), PP .37 (3:00)
4. Malkin (32): 1.29 ------- ES .81 (15:14), PP .48 (3:38)
5. Giroux (30): 1.25 ------- ES .78 (16:00), PP .47 (3:33)
6. Kucherov (25): 1.23 ---- ES .80 (16:14), PP .43 (3:32)
7. Hall (27): 1.21 ---------- ES .70 (16:02), PP .50 (3:01)
8. Kessel (31): 1.15 -------- ES .64 (14:50), PP .51 (3:44)
9. Matthews (21): 1.14 ---- ES .88 (15:58), PP .26 (2:10)
10. Kuznetsov (26): 1.10 -- ES .67 (15:19), PP .42 (3:28)

1. The three of them are the three youngest players on the list - CHECK
2. The three of them all play center - CHECK
3. The three of them are the three highest ES producers per game - CHECK

For these 3 reasons, it seems like the title of this thread is pretty apt, imo.

But between the 3, some observations:

- MacKinnon is older than Connor and receives much more PP time, so it's hard to argue that he's on the same level.
- Matthews is younger than Connor and receives much less PP time, so there's an argument there that he can be on his level.
- Matthews is the youngest player on the list, and receives by far the least PP time, nowhere remotely close to what every other guy on this list gets on the PP.

This has to be one of the dumbest arguments made to determine the skill or talent of a player. Now the birthday is the determining factor? Take the homer shades off for once.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

yeah those homer leaf fans are looking really, really bad right now.

while those guys who called matthews the most overrated player in hockey and the leafs the most overrated team in hockey are looking really good.

Those comparing him to McDavid will look really bad when McDavid takes home his third straight Art Ross. Hey at least you’ll have the coveted most points per 60 minutes Trophy!

 

[zeke]

This has to be one of the dumbest arguments made to determine the skill or talent of a player. Now the birthday is the determining factor? Take the homer shades off for once.

you think a player's age is "the dumbest" factor ever?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

But you'll use a 7 game playoff sample size to knock Matthews lmao

Nope. I never did that.
Swing and a miss. But keep moving those goal posts.

 

[zeke]

Those comparing him to McDavid will look really bad when McDavid takes home his third straight Art Ross. Hey at least you’ll have the coveted most points per 60 minutes Trophy!

do fans really cheer for and celebrate individual trophy wins? is that a thing?

 

[Saltcreek]

you think a player's age is "the dumbest" factor ever?

In the context in which you are using it? Yes. You know what determines how people evaluate skill and talent? Results! Just because player x is younger than player y it does not mean that player x can be viewed at equal footing.

 

[snipes]

do fans really cheer for and celebrate individual trophy wins? is that a thing?

I’m sure none of you cared when Matthews won the Calder over Laine. Not a single one.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

7 game sample sizes regardless of the time of season are poor examples of track record. Crosby got held pointless by the Bruins line of Bergeron and back end of Chara a few seasons ago, they're the best shutdown line in hockey for a reason.

Connor McDavid has 2 more points in the playoffs than Matthews, in the same amount of games. Sample sizes like that are poor, especially when you're talking about players in their first or second season in the league. Matthews was injured for a decent chunk of last year with the concussion/back issues. He's healthy now.

Yes and Crosby did get pooped on after this series even if his 1st round and second round were very good.

It’s a stretch to say Matthews carried the Leafs to success like the poster I quoted mentionned, when he basically a non-factor in a 7 game series against the Bruins. He also doesn’t really have any mind boggling regular season production either to back up what the poster said.

 

[zeke]

I’m sure none of you cared when Matthews won the Calder over Laine. Not a single one.

winning the calder didn't make Matthews better than Laine.

 

[Eltuna]

I think McDavid is pretty clearly in his own tier then there’s another tier of Matthews, Mackinnon, Laine, and Eichel, and then a third tier of guys like Marner, Rantanen, and Draisaitl. In the second tier it appears that Matthews and Mackinnon have separated themselves a bit to be the top 2.

I’ve always looked at the two like Malkin vs Crosby where Matthews is Crosby and Mackinnon is Malkin. Not necessarily in play styles but when it comes to how their careers will go. If you ask Pittsburgh fans they will pretty much all tell you that Malkin at his best has another gear but Crosby is way more consistent and that’s what I see with Mackinnon and Matthews. I feel like Matthews is never going to have a bad season, I’m not sure if he’ll ever have the 97 points in 74 games kind of a season that Mackinnon just had either though. Mackinnon’s contract at 6.3 for another 5 years is also a big advantage he has on the other guys.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

I think Matthews has surpassed Mcdavid at this point

 

[gtrower]

Hope this "new Big 3" have some comfortable couches at home to watch the "old Big 3" duke it out for another Cup.

 

[BAM]

Yes and Crosby did get pooped on after this series even if his 1st round and second round were very good.

It’s a stretch to say Matthews carried the Leafs to success like the poster I quoted mentionned, when he basically a non-factor in a 7 game series against the Bruins. He also doesn’t really have any mind boggling regular season production either to back up what the poster said.

Meh, I took it like this. The Leafs had an unfair first round finishing with the 3rd most points in the east and playing the team with the 2nd most points in the East in the first round. The Caps had the same amount of points as the Leafs and got to play a 97 point Jackets team that finished in a wild card spot. The Leafs took the Bruins to 7 games despite Kadri being suspended for games 2-4 and their best player only scoring 2 points in 7 games. I'll take my chances with those 2 things not happening in the playoffs going forward.

 

[BAM]

Nope. I never did that.
Swing and a miss. But keep moving those goal posts.

I've seen you do that

 

[daver]

McDavid: 23:34

Mackinnon: 21:55

Eichel: 21:18

Matthews: 18:27

Babcock is holding Matthews back. 5 less minutes than McDavid.

This makes a MASSIVE difference.

Is honestly a joke? Matthews is not being held back. He simply is not relied upon at this point for offense. It is complete BS to position this as a disadvantage.

 

[Spilot23]

I think Matthews has surpassed Mcdavid at this point

 

[gtrower]

Meh, I took it like this. The Leafs had an unfair first round finishing with the 3rd most points in the east and playing the team with the 2nd most points in the East in the first round. The Caps had the same amount of points as the Leafs and got to play a 97 point Jackets team that finished in a wild card spot. The Leafs took the Bruins to 7 games despite Kadri being suspended for games 2-4 and their best player only scoring 2 points in 7 games. I'll take my chances with those 2 things not happening in the playoffs going forward.

Caps would have traded a 1st round matchup with Columbus for Boston in a heartbeat. Not to mention you're arguing unfair playoff matchups when the Caps/Pens have played each other in the 2nd round in three straight playoffs.

 

[LeafFever]

Is honestly a joke? Matthews is not being held back. He simply is not relied upon at this point for offense. It is complete BS to position this as a disadvantage.

Are you joking? over 5 minutes less TOI per game is not a disadvantage?

That is not a disadvantage yet playing with Marleau and Kapanen is apparently.

 

[Saltcreek]

Are you joking? over 5 minutes less TOI per game is not a disadvantage?

What is a bigger advantage? Having a talented team like Toronto to play on (instead of Edmonton) or have 5 more minutes TOI? No matter how you spin it McDavid is literally the entire Edmonton offense on a team that is badly coached.

 

[Sheppy]

Lol both Mack and Matthews only played in 1 series you homer.

Well, to be fair Matthews didn't even play one series.

 

[57special]

Who's the old big 3?

There is only one " Big 3".

Robinson. Savard. Lapointe.