Is John Tavares starting to slip?

[Regal]

Hmm...you might be right. I may have fallen in to bias trap. What are some comparable Hall of Fame centers that got in and were not controversial? Sundin was PPG for 1350 games. Also 500+ goals. That does sound like a good Hall of Fame resume.

Yea, I think he’s one of those guys where his longevity really makes him a clear HOFer imo based on the usual standards. I think his tier of player can go either way and if he had started to regress earlier then he’d be a lot more borderline, but a guy who was considered a clear #1 C for a decade plus with high level career stats is usually going to get in. I mean someone like Getzlaf will probably get in, and Backstrom might as well.

 

[seafoam]

He has had elite highs, they just don't look as such because he played in a low scoring environment for a majority of his prime

He's finished 3rd in goals 2x, 2nd in points in 14-15, finished top 3 in MVP voting 2x

Regular season champion doesn’t really mean anything. He won NYI one series against a terrible FLA team.

 

[Golden_Jet]

He has had elite highs, they just don't look as such because he played in a low scoring environment for a majority of his prime

You realize he didn’t play in the DPE, played with all the new rule changes.

 

[Zybalto]

You realize he didn’t play in the DPE, played with all the new rule changes.

Its easy enough to just look at era adjusted stats instead of using any guesswork.

Via hockeyref's era adjusted stats webpage:

Tavares currently sits 33rd all time for goals scored (just ahead of Frank Mahavolich)
Tavares currently sits 41st all time for points scored (just ahead of Bobby Hull)

 

[leafsfan5]

Regular season champion doesn’t really mean anything. He won NYI one series against a terrible FLA team.

I mean yes he hasn't had playoff success, but you said he hasn't had highs. Unless you solely identify highs as playoff success (which is silly), it's clear he has had them.

You realize he didn’t play in the DPE, played with all the new rule changes.

He played the prime years of his career in an incredibly low scoring environment - that is a fact.

It was so low that his 1.01 PPG from 12/13-15-16 ranked him 4th among all forwards with 200 games played - only Crosby, Kane and Malkin were ahead of him. It's understandable why one would look at his stats during those years and come away unimpressed, while in reality he was close to a top forward in the league

The reason he has stayed close to his prime production levels at this point in his career is because scoring has risen rapidly. For example, Sidney Crosby from last year isn't close to the Crosby from 14-15, despite their numbers being comparable (1.14 last year vs 1.09 in 14-15).

 

[Bizz]

You mean the season he had career high in goals for the leafs ?

lol you sir have incredibly poor hockey knowledge

He has better stats with Tor then the Isles

0.93 PPG with NYI
0.95 PPG with Tor

Nice try tho

now show his playoff numbers and all the cup rings he's won.

 

[Golden_Jet]

He played the prime years of his career in an incredibly low scoring environment - that is a fact.

Which was a little higher than DPE, like previously mentioned,
DPE had the clutching and grabbing allowed, from 97/98 -03/04 (then lockout).

Then we had the rule changes, plus 3 on 3 hockey.

If you prefer facts.

NHL League Averages | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest NHL League Averages including shots, saves, goal averages and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[BraveCanadian]

Its easy enough to just look at era adjusted stats instead of using any guesswork.

Via hockeyref's era adjusted stats webpage:

Tavares currently sits 33rd all time for goals scored (just ahead of Frank Mahavolich)
Tavares currently sits 41st all time for points scored (just ahead of Bobby Hull)

Adjusted stats *are* guess work.. and not great guesses to be honest

 

[notbias]

now show his playoff numbers and all the cup rings he's won.

0 cups and 0.72 PPG...

Oh wait, those are Thornton's numbers

0 cups and 0.74 PPG...

 

[gritdash60]

He isn't starting to slip, what wasn't shown in the Leafs sheets picture is these bad boys!

 

[Bizz]

0 cups and 0.72 PPG...

Oh wait, those are Thornton's numbers

0 cups and 0.74 PPG...

Joe Thornton never had a 11M aav contract.

 

[leafsfan5]

Which was a little higher than DPE, like previously mentioned,
DPE had the clutching and grabbing allowed, from 97/98 -03/04 (then lockout).

Then we had the rule changes, plus 3 on 3 hockey.

If you prefer facts.

NHL League Averages | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest NHL League Averages including shots, saves, goal averages and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

That's fine, I'm not sure what it has to do with my point, though.

I didn't say JT played in the dead puck era itself, but he did play in an extremely low scoring era, the 2nd lowest scoring after the DPE

As a result of that his numbers appear less impressive than they are when you compare to his peers during that timeframe

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The way people talk about Tavares is so odd, you'd think he just loafed around his whole career as teammates sometimes banked goals off him.

The really ironic thing about how this conversation has played out is people said a lot of the same things about Sundin. He had a playing style that made him look a little laid back and people mistook it for being lazy but nothing could have been further from the truth. The man was a warrior for the Leafs. So is Tavares though, just in a different way. Same production, different styles, same BS criticisms. It's just the way people are.

 

[notbias]

Joe Thornton never had a 11M aav contract.

First off, irrelevant, but it is funny that you posted this.

He had a 17% CH... Tavares' is around 14%...

Not sure if you know, but the cap goes up.