Is international hockey too fragmented to ever grow?

[cutchemist42]

Posting and lurking on a few different boards relating to different sports, the international hockey group feels like the most divided on opinions on international hockey and who should control what.To me, this fragmentation is not beneficial to the sport as a whole.

So is hockey's international politics more detrimental to its growth compared to basketball, baseball, cricket, rugby, soccer, etc?

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[ForumNamePending]

Ya, I think so... Hockey has a lot of things working against it and one of those things is disorganization/fragmentation. I think despite this it has still managed to grow but probably not at the same pace it could have if all the major bodies were pulling in the same general direction.

I have always thought given everything working against the sport, both historically and present day, it is sort of amazing the game is as 'global' as it is.

 

[Paxton Fettel]

It's all NHL's fault. Without it we'd have what they have in soccer, at least at the international stage!

 

[daver]

It's all NHL's fault. Without it we'd have what they have in soccer, at least at the international stage!

Things might change if there was more interest in international hockey than the Stanley Cup playoffs. Do you think there is more interest?

 

[Xokkeu]

I think the long term solution needs to be a partnership between the IIHF and NHL in terms of an international calendar. Get the World Cup started, distribute the money to national federations, just like in baseball. I doubt the IOC is going to be willing to cut the NHL in, but if they were able to reach an agreement on an international calendar that'd be the way forward.

The problem is each group, the NHL, the IIHF, the IOC and now even the KHL will have to compromise and well who knows about that.



I think you might see a fragmentation of the football world as a possibility soon. IF FIFA insists on a winter world cup in Qatar, I think UEFA and their clubs (which are like the NHL in that they are the most profitable league and most powerful group) might be just willing to break up the international order.

 

[Jussi]

No, the biggest reason will always be the cost. First you need an ice rink, then the equipment.

 

[Theokritos]

It's all NHL's fault. Without it we'd have what they have in soccer, at least at the international stage!

That's a one-sided way to look at it. Historically the IIHF policy has done a lot to alienate North America. Both spheres of the hockey world have developed separately and the opportunity to bridge the gap has already passed a long time ago, unfortunately. To point the finger at one side is too simplistic.

 

[Zine]

Things might change if there was more interest in international hockey than the Stanley Cup playoffs. Do you think there is more interest?

You sure about that?

Even in Canada, the most watched hockey broadcasts are usually international events, no? (Olympics, WJC).

 

[eme]

To some degree yes. Then again, in Europe there are strong individual leagues, who now with the CHL are starting to co-operate, so this will probably create a better unity in the long run. Ofcourse a lot rides on the succes of CHL.

 

[Kalzu]

I think the closest comparison is basketball. The best league is based in North America but the sport isn't as America-based as baseball or American football.

I don't know so much about basketball and don't know why the NBA started to participate major international events only in the 90s. OK, the Olympics had the amateur-only rule but at least in hockey, pros were allowed to the Worlds much earlier. Why did basketball then have the NBA participating in the WC only since 1994?

Anyway, given how late the NBA started to participate major international events, seems like it's less problematic for them. They participate at the Olympics and they can participate at the FIBA WC, they don't organize it themselves like the NHL.

I guess the Olympics and the WC being in the pre-season as well as the FIBA WC being quadrennial unlike the IIHF WCh makes those events less problematic for the NBA. But why couldn't it be so easy with hockey? To me, basketball seems more NBA-dominated than hockey NHL-dominated, the NBA doesn't seem to have a rival like the KHL for the NHL. What's the Olympic participant's NHL/NBA vs. other leagues ratio? Does the NHL have a higer percentage of top players than the NBA making it have more power?

 

[Tomas W]

It's a problem for sure for growth.

 

[Frank the Tank]

It's all NHL's fault. Without it we'd have what they have in soccer, at least at the international stage!

No, it was the IOC's draconian policies on amateurism in sports decades ago enforced by the IIHF and their president Bunny Ahearne, who famously referred to Canada as a "naughty child," that generated the rift between NA and European hockey powers.

 

[PurpleMouse]

Anyway, given how late the NBA started to participate major international events, seems like it's less problematic for them. They participate at the Olympics and they can participate at the FIBA WC, they don't organize it themselves like the NHL.

I guess the Olympics and the WC being in the pre-season as well as the FIBA WC being quadrennial unlike the IIHF WCh makes those events less problematic for the NBA. But why couldn't it be so easy with hockey? To me, basketball seems more NBA-dominated than hockey NHL-dominated, the NBA doesn't seem to have a rival like the KHL for the NHL. What's the Olympic participant's NHL/NBA vs. other leagues ratio? Does the NHL have a higer percentage of top players than the NBA making it have more power?

Right now the KHL is much more of a potential rival than a rival in reality. It's true that whatever the second best league in basketball may not have a player the profile of a Kovalchuk or Radulov but otherwise I don't know if there's that big of a difference between Euro basketball leagues and Euro hockey leagues in terms of quality.

The NBA's player participation in international events seems similar to the NHL's. They are "all in" on the Olympics, but key players miss the World Championships- which is odd in their case since it doesn't even conflict with the NBA's season.

In theory, basketball should have an easier time because all year long "feels" appropriate for basketball while it seems many feel hockey has no place in the summer, so they can more easily contribute to these tournaments.

 

[kp61c]

It's all NHL's fault. Without it we'd have what they have in soccer, at least at the international stage!

that's about it. with the nhl being the best league in the world by a huge margin international hockey will always be a mess. sadly, there's nothing to be done about it. that's simply the way it's

 

[Canuckistani]

The main problem for the growth of hockey - by far - is cost and climate.

It's no coincidence that the game is only popular in locales that are cold and relatively wealthy.

For soccer and basketball all you need is a ball and makeshift goal/hoop. People in the most poverty-striken regions can still "play" it to some extent. You need a bit more for baseball, but it's affordable even in places like Cuba and the Dominican.

For hockey you need an ice rink, expensive ice time, expensive equipment...

No amount of unity among the NHL, KHL and IIHF will put a dent in that.

The game isn't going to expand far beyond where it already is: Europe and North America. Meaningful growth will come largely in the southern US or countries like France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia maybe Italy...

 

[joe89]

North America and Europe is a huge base to stand on when it comes to international competition in any sport. South America and Africa are big continents, but very small when it comes to sport.

Most of the biggest sporting nations in the world are already playing hockey(to various degrees), likewise most of the best/biggest sporting nations by capita. So hockey only needs to grow where it's already acknowledged, and that'll be more than enough.

 

[Jablkon]

Well, most of sports has one priority which is generally respected - like WC. Unfortunately there a lot "culture" differences in such small sport as hockey is. I think it would be a big step forward if we can really accept and tolerate those differences. I think whoever visit league match both in Europe and in NHL can say that it is like two completely different worlds (not even talking about quality of hockey and budget). Unfortunately I hear it mostly from one fan base which often downgrade what other people like.....

 

[Jumptheshark]

No, the biggest reason will always be the cost. First you need an ice rink, then the equipment.

the lack of Ice rinks in many countries is the big thing.

Also, if you look at where hockey is played--mostly cold world countries--most countries it dominates.

Here in europe--Hockey is top in the Scandanavian countries, russia and the former eastern block counties--Austria, Germany, NOrthern italy,Hungary

the more south you go into the warmer countries-Spain, Portugal, greece--the less interest there is in the sport

International hockey is not fragmented--this is just code for Canadians to dumb down hockey elsewhere and to be little other countries hockey.

Canadians just do not understand the structure of European hockey--there it is fragmented in their minds

 

[Jussi]

the lack of Ice rinks in many countries is the big thing.

Also, if you look at where hockey is played--mostly cold world countries--most countries it dominates.

Here in europe--Hockey is top in the Scandanavian countries, russia and the former eastern block counties--Austria, Germany, NOrthern italy,Hungary

the more south you go into the warmer countries-Spain, Portugal, greece--the less interest there is in the sport

International hockey is not fragmented--this is just code for Canadians to dumb down hockey elsewhere and to be little other countries hockey.

Canadians just do not understand the structure of European hockey--there it is fragmented in their minds

Hockey is essentially a Northern hemisphere sport.

 

[Tissotti]

As unfortunate as it is, I do think it is too fragmented.
That fragmentation has also led to countries like Sweden bleeding to soccer in 10 years timeframe. It's hard to see meaningful growth here in Finland and Sweden on our own leagues.

There is still a lot of unlocked potential in Europe from a larger league. Coming from a league that would be strong across Western Europe as well. I don't believe KHL could be that league that would grow hockey in Europe in its current form.

 

[Rekin]

In soccer though both Sweden and Finland have a significant portion of immigrant population represented in the national teams, even to the extent that one could call it defining. In hockey there's barely anything like that.

 

[thom]

Jussi-very well said Hockey in most part will always be a nothern Hemisphere sport

 

[Urbanskog]

In soccer though both Sweden and Finland have a significant portion of immigrant population represented in the national teams, even to the extent that one could call it defining. In hockey there's barely anything like that.

I don't think that the Finnish team is awfully pumped with immigrants. Or how would I know, I don't follow the sport.

 

[Xokkeu]

In soccer though both Sweden and Finland have a significant portion of immigrant population represented in the national teams, even to the extent that one could call it defining. In hockey there's barely anything like that.

Hockey is a sport for middle to upper class people. Many of the parents I play with in our beer leagues regularly spend 10-20,000$ a year on their kids to play hockey. Personally I think it's a huge waste of money but that's not for me to decide. The US team has a couple of kids of immigrants on it. Canadian immigrants.

 

[Rekin]

I don't think that the Finnish team is awfully pumped with immigrants. Or how would I know, I don't follow the sport.

You do have guys with names like Hrádecký, Eremenko, Hetemaj, Zeneli, Yaghoubi, Sadik, Kuqi... I think this kind of characters will definitely be integration figures for the younger generations and that's already a lost battle for hockey then, even if there wouldn't be a Finnish Zlatan to provide the knockout.