World Cup: Is international hockey dead (or too boring to resuscitate)?

[jj cale]

Never heard of Lithuania I see.

Or Croatia, or Serbia, or Spain or...................

The game I always wanted to see was that vintage Yugoslav group before the breakup that had Divac,Petrovic,Kukoc.Radja,Paspalj and company going against the dream team of 1992.

That was a great team with great skill and great teamwork. Do I think they would have beat the U.S dream team in 92? no, but they would have given them a serious run for their money.

Petro in particular was ****ing money, one of the best shooters I have ever seen.

They had a great team.

 

[ScottyBowman]

Basketball is basically a US only sport. Places like Finland/Sweden etc it is really back of the bus.

Think men's volley ball in the US so you get an idea where basketball is in the sports world.

Come on man. Basketball is way more popular in Europe and the world than hockey. Not even close.

 

[JackSlater]

I made a post about a year ago predicting that the sudden interest in resurrecting the World Cup after 12 years dormancy was to give the NHL cover to drop participation in the Olympics in Asia in 2018 and 2022. Now dallasnews.com is repeating that speculation. The NHL brass think they can drop the Olympics because the World Cup will satisfy fans interest in seeing international competition.

The NHL openly admitted that when the tournament was announced over a year ago. Daly's exact quote:

"I think the World Cup may be influential in terms of how we ultimately decide, because if it's as successful as we hope it'll be and we think it'll be, the Olympics becomes far less important, to the players, even," deputy commissioner Bill Daly said. "If the World Cup's a big deal, best-on-best tournament, why do we need to go to the Olympics?"

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl-announces-world-cup-of-hockey-to-return-in-2016-1.190879

The NHL's agenda was transparent from the beginning.

That would definitely work in Canada, given the fact that the format for the World Cup guarantees Canada a victory on their home ice, in front of home fans, with Canadian referees officiating. There is no possibility that Canada could lose under those conditions. That allows Canadian fans to say We're No. 1 without having to break up NHL schedules in mid-season. I doubt that there was much TV viewing of the WCH outside of Canada, but there are all kinds of other advertising gimmicks that generate revenue.

There is no way to realistically guarantee any result in a tournament.

 

[Urbanskog]

Come on man. Basketball is way more popular in Europe and the world than hockey. Not even close.

In fact hockey destroys basketball attendance-wise in Europe.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Jesus one not-so-successful tournament and international hockey is dead. It's always extremes these days.

The World Cup obviously needs tweaking, hopefully the NHL gets their heads out of their ***** and includes actual countries instead gimmick teams. It's hypocritical of them to claim they want to "grow the game" but then decide only 6 countries actually matter in the hockey world. Guess all that "grow the game" lip service only matters when adding another franchise in the desert.

Europeans still seem to like the IIHF WHC, at least when it's not Canada winning. Didn't see so many people so sour on it before back-to-back Canadian wins.

I really do hope the NHL keeps going to the Olympics. At least they kind of have to now. The optics around the World Cup were sub-optimal to say the least. Wouldn't be justified in claiming it as a replacement for the Olympics as the premier best on best hockey tournament.

International hockey isn't dead, there just isn't any parity right now. Want Canada to stop winning so often? Get good.

 

[Xokkeu]

In fact hockey destroys basketball attendance-wise in Europe.

How are you measuring that?

 

[Lepardi]

In fact hockey destroys basketball attendance-wise in Europe.

Did you take the basketball Euroleague into account?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Euroleague#Average_home_attendances

Basketball is basically a US only sport. Places like Finland/Sweden etc it is really back of the bus.

Think men's volley ball in the US so you get an idea where basketball is in the sports world.

Did you know that 10,000 Finnish people traveled to Bilbao two years ago to see our team lose to USA by 59 points in the World Cup?

 

[Lepardi]

How are you measuring that?

Wikipedia has an article on average attendances in sports leagues:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professional_sports_leagues

The numbers are mostly from 2014-15.

Ice hockey:
NLA 6,762
DEL 6,419
KHL 6,303
SHL 6,024
Extraliga 5,113
Liiga 4,336

Basketball:
Euroleague 8,184
Liga ACB (Spain) 6,375
Bundesliga 4,494
Serie A 3,862

 

[Xokkeu]

Did you take the basketball Euroleague into account?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Euroleague#Average_home_attendances



Did you know that 10,000 Finnish people traveled to Bilbao two years ago to see our team lose to USA by 59 points in the World Cup?

I'm starting to think Finns don't care about sport and just like excuses to go drink in some new locale. Haha

 

[Lepardi]

I'm starting to think Finns don't care about sport and just like excuses to go drink in some new locale. Haha

Like my friend eagerly said of my local football team's potential Europa League or Champions League qualifiers next summer: "That would be a reason, not an excuse!" He was obviously thinking about ways to explain to his wife why he's going drinking abroad again. Finland making it to the World Cup of basketball is definitely a reason, not an excuse.

 

[BruinLVGA]

The whole Olympic format is bogus. In the medal rounds One loss and you're out. Anybody can win one game luck plays a big part. Take last year's playoffs the pens lost their 1st game to Tampa their cup chances should have ended there I guess. They also lost their 1st to Washington again it would have had them eliminated.

Like I said before its how a country fairs over the long haul.

Problem is that pretty much all major international team competitions in the world have always been like this. Seems to be working fine.

And after all, Canada is this all conquering entity, why should they have a problem with this? No one else seem to fear this...

True, it is the long haul that really demonstrates the true strength of a program.

I can live with the single elimination in the olympics, there really is no other way they can fit it in the games without it being single elimination.

Main issue I have with the olys is any knockout game being determined by a shootout, no way any game of that importance should be determined on a gimmick deal.

A shootout to determine the gold medal winner in hockey? really?

That has to go, a complete joke.

Why not? Are penalty shots not part of the game?

In the absolute juggernaut of all sports - soccer, that is - which is immensely more popular and known than hockey, penalty shots are what decides games that are hopelessly tied, too. No lamentations by anyone there, I don't see why there should be any lamentation in hockey. Hockey is a tough sport, maybe some fans should toughen up a little too.

Canada is in a golden era. The current group will be replaced, and while the next group looks promising Canada dominating best on best tourneys every year going forward is far from a sure thing.

Bravo.

Basketball is basically a US only sport. Places like Finland/Sweden etc it is really back of the bus.

Think men's volley ball in the US so you get an idea where basketball is in the sports world.

Speaking about things one doesn't know is the perfect recipe for looking foolish..

 

[jj cale]

Why not? Are penalty shots not part of the game?

In the absolute juggernaut of all sports - soccer, that is - which is immensely more popular and known than hockey, penalty shots are what decides games that are hopelessly tied, too. No lamentations by anyone there, I don't see why there should be any lamentation in hockey. Hockey is a tough sport, maybe some fans should toughen up a little too.

It is pretty obvious why not............it is a gimmick and a gimmick contest should never be used to decide winners in elimination games, it completely destroys the integrity of the sport. Europeans might be o.k with that due to their soccer culture but we do not have that here in Canada, we have a hockey culture and thus have higher standards for the sport. We do not care what you guys want to do in your footie games, we care about hockey.

Toughen up as fans to get used to shootouts? this has to be the lamest attempt at an argument in favor of ridiculous shootouts in play down or championship games that I have ever heard. Back to the drawing board for you I would say.

In short, get out of here with that shootout stuff, you keep that to your Swiss leagues and stuff, leave it out of international play where our teams are playing to win thank you very much.

 

[Confucius]

Problem is that pretty much all major international team competitions in the world have always been like this. Seems to be working fine.

And after all, Canada is this all conquering entity, why should they have a problem with this? No one else seem to fear.

Guess you missed the posts that complained of the best of 3 format for the final in the World Cup. Several stating it was obviously that way to favour Canada. Yep some people wanted to win by luck and not by merit.

 

[jj cale]

Guess you missed the posts that complained of the best of 3 format for the final in the World Cup. Several stating it was obviously that way to favour Canada. Yep some people wanted to win by luck and not by merit.

It was rich reading the comments about that.

Fans too scared of a best of 3. Why? because they knew they were not good enough to win a best of 3.

What fan integrity!! [MOD]

 

[JackSlater]

Guess you missed the posts that complained of the best of 3 format for the final in the World Cup. Several stating it was obviously that way to favour Canada. Yep some people wanted to win by luck and not by merit.

Of course a best of three final favours Canada compared to a one game final. That's simply because the more games, the more the better team is favoured. A best of five would favour Canada even more. Using overtime instead of a shootout favours Canada as well. Playing 60 minute games instead of 30 minute games favours Canada too. When one team is the best, actually playing hockey favours that team. Such is life.

 

[Vide]

I haven't had any interest in international hockey in a long while. Canada is the best and no other team can really beat them in a best-on-best tournament. Russia despite all their star power never lives up to expectations and USA still has a long ways to go. Maybe when their next generation of players come online they'll have a chance. Anyway, world juniors is a much more entertaining tournament than any international pro level tourney these days. Much more excitement and there's always good stories to tell. That story-telling element is kinda missing in international hockey.

 

[Yakushev72]

I haven't had any interest in international hockey in a long while. Canada is the best and no other team can really beat them in a best-on-best tournament. Russia despite all their star power never lives up to expectations and USA still has a long ways to go. Maybe when their next generation of players come online they'll have a chance. Anyway, world juniors is a much more entertaining tournament than any international pro level tourney these days. Much more excitement and there's always good stories to tell. That story-telling element is kinda missing in international hockey.

The United States' performance in the World Cup was just pathetic. They finished 8th, or tied for 7th, depending on how you want to say it. The next generation of American players will be positioned the same as the current group - at or near the bottom!

 

[vorky]

I know you all are speaking about national teams here, but I lack clubs international tournaments in hockey. KHL/NHL games would bring new fans to the sport and of course extra money for both leagues. Someone would say that there is no interest towards KHL in NA, but I dont agree - KHL is presented as russian league and there is a demand for russian hockey in NA (some big NA companies want to get a licence from Russian hockey federation to make/sell "Red Army" merchandising brand here - FHR Vicepresident Rotenberg said). Of course there is big demand for NHL in Russia, so no problem. As you know KHL will meet with NHL to discuss it.

 

[Kitchener Boy]

1. Ahhhhhh okay... So the IIHF rankings mean "very little if anything". So, whose rankings? Yours?

2. Yeah, you won in 2002 and 2004. Others won in 1998 and 2006. When you won, you were #1, when others did, they were. Seems logic, no?

Canada often doesn't send there grade A team to the IIHF world championship.
Best on best Canada's record speaks for itself.

 

[JackSlater]

The United States' performance in the World Cup was just pathetic. They finished 8th, or tied for 7th, depending on how you want to say it. The next generation of American players will be positioned the same as the current group - at or near the bottom!

I thought that you were a fan of the American program, especially the development program that hot houses the players.

I know you all are speaking about national teams here, but I lack clubs international tournaments in hockey. KHL/NHL games would bring new fans to the sport and of course extra money for both leagues. Someone would say that there is no interest towards KHL in NA, but I dont agree - KHL is presented as russian league and there is a demand after russian hockey in NA (some big NA companies want to get a licence from Russian hockey federation to make/sell "Red Army" merchandising brand here - FHR Vicepresident Rotenberg said). Of course there is big demand after NHL in Russia, so no problem. As you know KHL will meet with NHL to discuss it.

I'm very skeptical that there is any noteworthy demand for KHL hockey in North America. The KHL is generally viewed as a league far, far removed from the quality of the NHL. I don't think I've ever heard a North American, in person anyway, claim that they have even seen a KHL game in any form.

 

[tony d]

No, it's not. I still enjoy international hockey. Good to see my country #1 at something.

 

[vorky]

I'm very skeptical that there is any noteworthy demand for KHL hockey in North America. The KHL is generally viewed as a league far, far removed from the quality of the NHL. I don't think I've ever heard a North American, in person anyway, claim that they have even seen a KHL game in any form.

That is a reason why I am talking about KHL as russian league (KHL is de iure a russian league, de facto not so sure). And I am sure there is a demand for russian hockey in NA, Russia/Canada game had best tv rating from all WC games. So if you market KHL vs NHL games as russian league vs NHL, then there is a potential. You can not do that with other euro leagues vs NHL because there is not a demand for euro (swedish, finnish etc) hockey in NA/Canada.

 

[JackSlater]

That is a reason why I am talking about KHL as russian league (KHL is de iure a russian league, de facto not so sure). And I am sure there is a demand for russian hockey in NA, Russia/Canada game had best tv rating from all WC games. So if you market KHL vs NHL games as russian league vs NHL, then there is a potential. You can not do that with other euro leagues vs NHL because there is not a demand for euro (swedish, finnish etc) hockey in NA/Canada.

There is some demand for team Russia I suppose. The best players from team Russia play in the NHL already though. I don't see what exactly draws viewers in. Most fans, rightly or wrongly, view the NHL as far better than any other league. The Russian national team isn't viewed as a huge step down like the KHL would be.

 

[snipes]

Yes. Finland is too dominant in juniors, while Canada is too good at senior level.

Are you serious? Not even close, some great players and good years. But, far from too dominant.

If Canada wins the 2017 WJC, we'll have won 2 out of 3, just like what Finland has done.

 

[Jussi]

The whole Olympic format is bogus. In the medal rounds One loss and you're out. Anybody can win one game luck plays a big part. Take last year's playoffs the pens lost their 1st game to Tampa their cup chances should have ended there I guess. They also lost their 1st to Washington again it would have had them eliminated.

Like I said before its how a country fairs over the long haul.

First: So you have problems with WJC as well then?

Second: Please list all major international team sports tournaments where the playoff stage is played in a best 3/5/7 format?